What does this look like?

[Hsaxon001]

We have 5 chromis in a qt tank and just over the past few days I've noticed that one of the fish appears to have something going on. They have been in the qt tank for almost two weeks. Does anyone know if this is a disease that needs to be treated or does it look like he may be getting roughed up by the others. I looked up some info online but haven't been able to determine what it might be. He's the guy toward the top of the photo with the white spots on him.

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[Hsaxon001]

He has two large white spots on his head

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[BigBearMD]

Too big for ich. Could be a fluke or two though. You could try a fresh water dip. 1-2cups of warm RO/DI with a tsp or so of marine buffer. Drop the fish in for 3-5 mins and see if they come off.

Also could be a few torn scales but it looks a little big for that.


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[jam.jo]

+1 for the freshwater dip to see if it is a parasite. If it is a fluke parasite use prazipro. If it does not come off (don't touch the lesion) it may be lymphocystis which is viral so you will want to QT that fish separately. I do not belive there is a treatment for that, but you could try paraguard.

 

[ThRoewer]

Since Chromis are involved my first guess would be Uronema marinum.
At this stage only freshwater baths or possibly Chloroquine Phosphate would be worth trying.

 

[scooter31707]

since chromis are involved my first guess would be uronema marinum.
At this stage only freshwater baths or possibly chloroquine phosphate would be worth trying.

+1

 

[ChrisRD]

I'm not too well versed on Uronema marinum and can't tell from the pic if it's that or just wounds/damage from tank mates. These guys are known to bicker in groups and will often harass the "omega" of the group until they kill it...especially in a small tank.

I sometimes use a piece of plastic lighting diffuser (eggcrate) covered with nylon mesh as a tank divider to separate fish that are fighting in QT. You might want to try that if these are just bite wounds.

 

[Tripod1404]

I also think it is uronema marinum. Also not only the fish that is on top has it, the fish in the lower middle also has it on its body (patch under the rear end of the dorsal fin).

You might try using metronidazole (seachem sell it under the name metroplex). It is safe for fish, easy to obtain and considered to be effective against uronema once its inside the fish. At this point uronema is atleast inside the muscle tissue of the fish and I think metronidazole is the only drug that threat internal uronema infections.

Also never let anything wet from that tank to go near the main display, not even the fishing net. If qt is close to dt, remove it further away, these diseases can "jump" from tank to tank in aerosol bubbles. If uronema enters the main system, it will stay there forever unless you are willing to nuke the tank.

 

[crav]

I also think it is uronema marinum. Also not only the fish that is on top has it, the fish in the lower middle also has it on its body (patch under the rear end of the dorsal fin).

You might try using metronidazole (seachem sell it under the name metroplex). It is safe for fish, easy to obtain and considered to be effective against uronema once its inside the fish. At this point uronema is atleast inside the muscle tissue of the fish and I think metronidazole is the only drug that threat internal uronema infections.

Also never let anything wet from that tank to go near the main display, not even the fishing net. If qt is close to dt, remove it further away, these diseases can "jump" from tank to tank in aerosol bubbles. If uronema enters the main system, it will stay there forever unless you are willing to nuke the tank.

How do you move the fish from QT to DT without anything touching both? (serious question, i can't imagine a way to do this). Even if you use your hand, it has been in both tanks. Worse if we use a extra container and dilute the water.

 

[Tripod1404]

How do you move the fish from QT to DT without anything touching both? (serious question, i can't imagine a way to do this). Even if you use your hand, it has been in both tanks. Worse if we use a extra container and dilute the water.

When the fish are pathogen free you can use the net. At that time it doesn't matter if water in qt enters to the dt, fish are going to enter to the main system anyway. Point of qt is to make fish disease free, by the end of qt, the water in your qt would also be pathogen free. Otherwise it means the qt failed and there are still pathogens in water and of course on the fish.

What I mean by using the same net is; if you net the fish in the qt while they are still under treatment and then use that same net in dt for another thing, you mix up water from qt (with pathogens) with dt. It is a good practice to have at least 2 nets, one for dt and one for qt that are let to dry when not in use (most pathogens die if they are allowed to dry for 48+ hours).

 

[crav]

When the fish are pathogen free you can use the net. At that time it doesn't matter if water in qt enters to the dt, fish are going to enter to the main system anyway. Point of qt is to make fish disease free, by the end of qt, the water in your qt would also be pathogen free. Otherwise it means the qt failed and there are still pathogens in water and of course on the fish.

What I mean by using the same net is; if you net the fish in the qt while they are still under treatment and then use that same net in dt for another thing, you mix up water from qt (with pathogens) with dt. It is a good practice to have at least 2 nets, one for dt and one for qt that are let to dry when not in use (most pathogens die if they are allowed to dry for 48+ hours).

Ok, now I understand. In the case of uronema specifically, doesn't it stay on the QT water or it dies gradually using medication?

 

[Tripod1404]

Ok, now I understand. In the case of uronema specifically, doesn't it stay on the QT water or it dies gradually using medication?

Depends on the medication, if you medicate properly it should die out. The problem urenema is; this is hard to achive. It might not always show symptoms so you might unknowingly introduce it and as far as I know regular qt practices like ttm or even copper-based medication do not wipe it at standard doses.

Keep in mind that if it is in qt water, it would also be on the fish in qt. So if you introduce those fish, it would not matter if you introduced and water from the qt or not. Basically it means pathogen made it to the dt one way or the other.

 

[ThRoewer]

Uronema is an opportunistic parasite that doesn't need a fish to survive. It's primary food source are bacteria.
Besides formalin, freshwater and bleach there are not many things that can kill Uronema. The usual and readily available medications are generally useless and in most cases not even worth trying. This applies especially to all "reef safe" medications.
The only medication fish and some inverts can survive and that has shown an ability to kill Uronema is Chloroquine Phosphate. But that will kill off all corals, including anemones, zoas, mushrooms,... and of course all algae.
A treatment or complete sterilization of the DT will be required if Uronema made it into it. There is no fallow period that will rid the tank of Uronema.


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[Tripod1404]

Uronema is an opportunistic parasite that doesn't need a fish to survive. It's primary food source are bacteria.
Besides formalin, freshwater and bleach there are not many things that can kill Uronema. The usual and readily available medications are generally useless and in most cases not even worth trying. This applies especially to all "reef safe" medications.
The only medication fish and some inverts can survive and that has shown an ability to kill Uronema is Chloroquine Phosphate. But that will kill off all corals, including anemones, zoas, mushrooms,... and of course all algae.
A treatment or complete sterilization of the DT will be required if Uronema made it into it. There is no fallow period that will rid the tank of Uronema.


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I think metronidazole is also an effective treatment against uronema. It is somewhat reef safe, it would not kill inverts but it would still kill protozoa and anaerobic bacteria. So it is not advisable to dose it directly to DT, that would damage bio-filter and biodiversity.

Actually, metronidazole has varying degrees of potency against all ciliated protozoa. So it is even somewhat effective against ich, but that effectiveness isn't large enough to kill all of it. It seems like it is more effective against Uronema and Brooklynella.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437