What equipment in a copper tank?

eisaiasjr

eisaiasjr

New member
Hello:

I am wondering what equipment I should have in a copper tank.

As you may know from my previous post, I had to transfer all my (remaining) fish from my DT to a QT tank in order to treat a bad case of velvet.

I am hosting all my fish in a 55 sumpless tank but have access to HOB skimmer if needed.

As of right now I have it temperature comtrolled via a chiller/heater, I have a bunch of PVC in the tank to provide hiding spots for the fish and a koralia for some water movement and making sure that the surface of the water is moving.

I understand that I cant put any sort of biological filtration since the copper that I am medicating would instantly kill the bacteria, so I have to ask... what other equipment should I have in there?

Also, I am doing 20% daily water changes in order to keep the waste/ammonia under control.

Any thoughts? Carbon? a skimmer? some sort of ammonia eating media? please recommend.

Or better yet, point me to a thread that explains how to set up a copper tank!

Best Regards,

Estefano
 
yes do the water changes and get a good copper test kit for it to be most effective you are aiming for .18 - salifert makes the best test other then a colorimeter. And i would just stick a HOB on it to recirc the water skip the power head and as long as you keep up on a water change /monitor the ammonia you should be just fine. You want to run it for at least 14 days and lol my famous words in the time shop for a UV - proper sized UV = no more of these hassles in the future.
 
UV on your main tank - a proper sized UV will kill any of the free floating bacteria and parasites. You can google a uv sizing chart or check out our site - hopefully referencing it isnt against site rules lol we have one posted there. I do not recommend using the cheaper Chinese models i.e. coralife, jb, etc. they are not particularly effective. aqua ultraviolet and emperor aquatics are choice and will last a long time.
 
Last question... :)

how many GPH would you run? the "high flow" or the "low flow" that is recommended on the charts?

As you know, the high flow is for algae control, the low flow is for parasite elimination...

Best Regards,

Estefano
 
yes all that is good info - see nothing wrong there but did find amusment in the copper discussion.

In our wholesale facility the marine systems run a constant copper level of .16-.18 ppm. It is not harmful to any fish - yes we keep puffers, lions and duh duh duh angelfish in the copper.. as long as your copper does not exceed .20 ppm your pygmy angels will not have a problem. The only fish we do not keep in copper is cardinals (and of course corals and inverts).

The bacteria is not effected by the copper in any way.

We run heavy UV sterilization just like every other wholesale operation.
 
low flow - biggest mistake made is not regulating the flow to a slow rate. If the water is not passed at a slow enough rate through the UV then its not effective at anything besides killing algae spores. so on our chart you would look at the 75,000 - 90,000 for a marine tank.
 
Definitive_Aqua said:
yes all that is good info - see nothing wrong there but did find amusment in the copper discussion.

In our wholesale facility the marine systems run a constant copper level of .16-.18 ppm. It is not harmful to any fish - yes we keep puffers, lions and duh duh duh angelfish in the copper.. as long as your copper does not exceed .20 ppm your pygmy angels will not have a problem. The only fish we do not keep in copper is cardinals (and of course corals and inverts).

The bacteria is not effected by the copper in any way.

We run heavy UV sterilization just like every other wholesale operation.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, what is the minimal copper level one can run that still kills Ich? .16-.18?
 
Wait a second... you just blew my mind... on that one...

Are you telling me that I could maintain biological filtration while still running copper at around .16-.18?

So if I put some live rock (or live air sponge) it would help me control ammonia/etc in my QT?

Best Regards,

Estefano
 
The bacteria on the sponge will be degraded. I would still monitor the ammonia levels. I constantly do a 5 gallon watter change every other day on my 55 gallon QT just for safe precaution. I have just a small sponge filter and a Aquaclear with sponge on it in my QT with a koralia and maxijet for flow.
 
eisaiasjr said:
Wait a second... you just blew my mind... on that one...

Are you telling me that I could maintain biological filtration while still running copper at around .16-.18?

So if I put some live rock (or live air sponge) it would help me control ammonia/etc in my QT?

Best Regards,

Estefano
Click to expand...

I actually use a 29g w/ an u/g filter & crushed coral substrate for holding/QT. I've treated it with Copper too, gotten it up to 0.5. Haven't had any issues. The only pain in the *** is I have to keep testing for and adding more Copper because the crushed coral absorbs some of it.
 
Cupramine copper will not destroy a bio-filter. From SeaChem's site, they make Cupramine and (IMO) have outstanding tech support.
http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Cupramine.html#faq7

As to UV: I do not believe UV will cure or prevent any parasite infestation. It would have to pull in every free-swimming parasite before it found a fish host to continue its life cycle. It has to have proper flow and constant upkeep to work at all. UV works well with algae control; that's why pondkeepers love it. Search this site and I think you'll find most hobbyists no longer use it.

Re: Copper. I know many facilities use copper 24/7 at doses well under .5 ppm; however, MOST fish can handle the recommended dose of .5. When trying to cure an established infestation, you need a 100% kill rate and I (and SeaChem) don't think you can do that with a level of .18, considered a maintenance dose.

Re: Skimmer. there is no reason for a skimmer in QT. Skimming is a long-term process and the fish aren't there long enough to benefit. Also, almost all fish are not bothered by nitrates at anywhere the level you;ll see in QT.
 
b0bab0ey said:
I actually use a 29g w/ an u/g filter & crushed coral substrate for holding/QT. I've treated it with Copper too, gotten it up to 0.5. Haven't had any issues. The only pain in the *** is I have to keep testing for and adding more Copper because the crushed coral absorbs some of it.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the ignorance... what is a u/g filter?

Best Regards,

Estefano
 
eisaiasjr said:
Sorry for the ignorance... what is a u/g filter?

Best Regards,

Estefano
Click to expand...

Undergravel filter (see link below)... They are still widely used for freshwater aquariums but not so much anymore for saltwater. Their main drawback is they can produce high nitrates in time, so they're really not suitable for a reef or any tank with inverts/corals. But they work just fine for QT'ing fish and IMO, for FO systems in general. You just have to do regular water changes to keep the nitrates from getting out of hand. The trade-off is you get a stable QT w/biological filtration.

http://fishkipedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/undergravel-filter-aquarium.jpg
 
Definitive_Aqua said:
yes all that is good info - see nothing wrong there but did find amusment in the copper discussion.

In our wholesale facility the marine systems run a constant copper level of .16-.18 ppm. It is not harmful to any fish - yes we keep puffers, lions and duh duh duh angelfish in the copper.. as long as your copper does not exceed .20 ppm your pygmy angels will not have a problem. The only fish we do not keep in copper is cardinals (and of course corals and inverts).

The bacteria is not effected by the copper in any way.

We run heavy UV sterilization just like every other wholesale operation.
Click to expand...

what copper meter are you using that you can measure precisely .16-.18.

no hobby copper test kit will be that precise.
 
This is exactly the one I bought:

https://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/212200/product.web

I don't have a 29g "biocube", I just use a standard 29g tank. Don't know if the dimensions are the same but this u/g filter fits a tank that is 30 in. x 12 in. Like I said, I just use crushed coral as a substrate. You can use a power head or an air pump w/air stones to run this. Remember you'll have to cycle it first just like any other system w/biological filtration. Buy yourself a copper test kit as you will need to re-add copper as it leaches into the gravel and do about a 25% WC at least once a month to keep your nitrates from getting too high. Good luck!
 
I agree with geaux xman above. No hobbyist has the means to test copper in that range. There is a big difference in preventing parasites in a high turnover environment and in home tanks. One fish in a wholesale operation is no big deal; in a home tank, it can be a disaster.

I once went through one of the largest import/wholesale SWF operations in the Country, near LAX. It was an amazing facility. It was obvious that they had one goal: to get healthy fish processed ASAP. They also used both a low level of copper (24/7/365) and UV, and wasted little time getting fish from the airport and back, to their customers (thus, less time for fish to find parasites). All of these practices will reduce the chances of a fish contracting a parasite; but none will prevent it. If UV prevents parasites and so does copper (at.18)....why use both?
 
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