What has been your experience with Reef Safe Ich treatments

[leebca]

Very good point about garlic. It is the same for those who sometimes claim their 'reef safe' product cured their fish. Since Marine Ich seems to 'disappear' for a while, some people think their fish are cured, then a few hours or even a few weeks later, spots show up again.

A freshwater dip does not kill Marine Ich. It can help a fish with gill infestations of microfauna, and it is a very good prophylactic treatment. My procedure for the dip on all new, incoming fish (that don't have a guarantee which requires I not do this) is in this thread:
Read December posts in this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=669022

OTH, a FW dip has been known to cure a variety of fluke and worm surface parasites and it has been known to even cure Marine Velvet, but this latter case is harder on the fish than a copper cure, IMHO.

 

[ana_luciav]

I just started a tratment of kick ich because my clown doesnt seem to get over it and to see if it really works. Let you know what happens

 

[TerryB]

There are many treatments for Cryptocaryon irritans, but the effectiveness of each varies from consistently effective to probably worthless. Copper, hyposalinity and the transfer method are the dependable methods. UV light and vacuuming can help, but are probably not going to cure it by themselves. A system that can be used at fisheries that does seem to work that is essentially vacuuming twice a day. They coat all surfaces with a polymer that Crypt does not attach to well. Then they can sweep the surfaces with a special machine twice a day to remove tomonts.

I have not heard of any public aquariums using any of the so-called reef safe medications with success. UV lights can be very effective when placed between tanks in a multi tank system. All the water must pass through the UV before it gets to the next tank. This prevents the spread from one tank to another. Of course, they use very powerful UV lights that are cleaned and changed often with the correct water flow.

IMO, our responsibility is to use those treatments that give the best odds of success when dealing with a life or death situation for the animals.

Terry B

 

[ana_luciav]

Well then.... kick ich killed my plate coral but on the good side my fish seem to be much better. So that whole thing about it being reef safe and safe for corals is not true. As soon as I put it in my coral shrinked to half its size and 2 days later it was gone. But for the other inhabitants( invertebrates in general) they are ok. The mushrooms also changed color a little and one fell. Evry one get their own conclusions if to use it or not.

 

[leebca]

Please keep us posted about the fish. Even though you had some coral reactions, are you still using it?

Thanks.

 

[mmgm]

Well:

I want to thank everyone for their feedback on ths thread..... The information provided was truely useful......

However, based on your feedback I can only reach the conclusion that when it comes to Reef Safe cures for Ich we truely do not know anything to make any informed decision about their effectiveness to cure ich. The poll voting is completely skewed across the board and opinions vary similar to the voting. These results seem to be consistent with feedback I have been reading about ich cures on Reef Central.....

I have a 90 gallon QT that is sitting empty now..... I am thinking about buying some fish with ich and trying Kich Ich and NSF in a controlled environment to see if I get any results..... But on the other hand since I QT why bother spending the $$$ on these cures if there is a chance they don't work.....

I guess if they really worked these companies would offer a money back warranty as a backing to their products.....

Oh well I guess things have NOT changed since I last thought about Ich a few years ago..... From this perspective thanks again for the feedback.....

Enjoy the hobby........

 

[jmicky41]

I am in the middle of a kick-ich treatment. After 3 doses, no apparent progress. When I started the treatment my mitratus butterfly had about 6 spots, the solar wrasse had only a few, and the rabbitfish had about 10. As of now, the butterfly and the rabbit have far more, while the wrasse has none. The yellow tang, goldflake and flame seem unaffected. I used this stuff years ago on a hippo tang and it seemed to work. I do run a UV, albeit an undersized one, but I never bothered to change the bulb despite having a fresh one on hand - big mistake. I'll update further progress ( or lack thereof) if any one is intersted.
I called the KickIch people with questions the other day and they do talk a pretty good game.

 

[ana_luciav]

I am still using it and the fish are ok, doing better every day. The only loss was the coral and the mushrooms seem to have adapted to the treatment and are doing ok so far. Ill keep you posted

 

[leebca]

ana_luciav,

One of the problems with getting accurate information from using products like Kick Ich is having a proper diagnosis. You wrote that your fish 'can't seem to get rid of it.' This implies the fish shows signs of "it" but isn't succumbing to the disease. This is more in line with the fish having an immunity to it, then a typical case of a new fish acquiring the disease for the first time (or a fish without immunity). But then again, are you sure it's Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans)?

So, your 'test' might be more along the lines: will an immune fish be rid of "it" with Kick Ich.

When you comment that the fish 'seems to be better' such a comment doesn't mean much. What specifically are you seeing, or think you see, which makes you make that statement? The more specific you can relate what is happening, the less anecdotal the information becomes. And without a proper diagnosis to begin with, we're unsure what "it" is.

Thanks for your response and for keeping us informed.

:rollface:

 

[ana_luciav]

Ok here are the specific details about what I have been going thru. 1st thing, I got a new fish that died 2 days after I had it and when I looked at it upclose it had white spots. Ok thatwas mymistake I should have put t in qt before putting it on the main tank but the store was one I knew. 2 weeks later my fish started getting white spots,did the research and decided to not stress them out at first. I treated with garlic and got a cleaner shrimp, kept all levels perfect ( i tried this first because I didnt want the corals to die) and the angel fish spots went away. The clown spots turned brown after 2 weeks and the morning onto the 3rd week I found him lying at the bottom of the tank lethargic and barely swimming, going sideways and almost going belly up. all this time He had not let the shrimp catch him to clean him so he was getting more affected by the ich than the angel fish. What I meant by "not getting rid of it" was that he wasnt letting the natural process happen. That is when I decided to go with Kick ich. The angel fish behaviour was the same always. That same day I started treatment. By the next day the fish was better, and what I mean by he is doing better is that he is swimming and eating as normal again. The only loss was the coral, which died 2 days after the 1rst treatment of kick ich. The clown still has brown spots but the treatment is not over yet I still have 3 more doses to go. Which is around week and a half.

 

[spoiledcats]

Reef Safe-
Cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp. I may be the exception, but these have worked well for me.

 

[reverendmaynard]

The cleaner wrasse may be reef safe, but the reef is not cleaner wrasse safe, unless I've got my fish mixed up. Since they only eat parasites off of fish, there are never enough to keep it healthy long term.

 

[leebca]

To reverandmaynard and spoiledcats

What kind of cleaner wrasse?

 

[reverendmaynard]

Like I said, I could be confusing things. I don't know for sure. From what I recall, cleaner fish in general do not make good tank inhabitants, but I could be wrong.
Cleaner shrimp, on the other hand, will eat just about anything and are good candidates for captivity, and do a decent job of keeping parasites under control. They're not likely to completely irradicate ich, but help to control it, at least on fish that will let them clean them. Most fish that are the same size or smaller than the shrimp will not allow themselves to be cleaned, IME.

 

[spoiledcats]

LEE,
The one I have is Labriodes Dimidiatus. It eats mysis shrimp, brine shrimp, and the prime reef I feed the other fish. It also cleans the fish constantly, but I don't know if it gets anything off of them cause I never see anything on them. I hope the other food I feed it will keep it alive, but if you know of anything else, I would appreciate your reply.

 

[reverendmaynard]

I just checked some other sources, and it seems that if you have one that is eating, you're very lucky. In general, they do not take well to eating the foods offered to them in captivity. Cleaner Gobies, or better, cleaner shrimp are more recommended.

 

[leebca]

The Striped Cleaner Wrasse is blue to yellow above fading to white or yellow below. There is a black stripe from the eye to the caudal fin margin. The stripe widens posteriorly.

This is Labroides dimidiatus. The other cousin is the Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides hawaiiana). These fish have been caught in the wild and in aquariums to dissect their gastric intestinal tracks for analysis. Nowhere has there been found Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) in their intestinal tracks. As far as we know, they don't pick Marine Ich (MI) off the fish they service.

If you see them picking off white specs from fish, these are sometimes Lymphocystis clumps, dead flesh, a loose scale, or discolored fin.

I've been trying to get the hobby to stop bringing them into the ornamental fish trade. You see, they set up reef stations of at least 3 for cleaning fish. Fish on the reef seem to know where the stations are and frequent them. When a collector comes along, they take all the group or just leave one behind, and this destroys the station. The one left (if there is any left) can't do the job and dies from exhaustion! The fish don't get rid of their parasites and the fish in the area become heavily infected with various worms, flukes, etc.

Then, unfortunately, these wrasses are obligate parasitic eaters and very few will turn towards aquarium food. It is really a shame and, IMHO a crime to put these in our aquarium. If we just stop buying them, the demand will go down and our LFSs will stop buying them from wholesalers and wholesalers will stop buying them from collectors.

The goby, especially the Neon Blue Goby (Elacatinus oceanops) is actually known to eat Lymphocystis clumps off of fish and I keep some of them in my aquarium for this specific purpose, along with cleaner shrimp.

My FOWLR tanks are a mix of fishes from oceans/seas around the world. It's strange, but some fish will chase the cleaner goby away and other will let it pick them over; others go to the cleaner shrimp only; and still others go to both. But, since I don't let MI in my displays, their picking is only keeping my fishes groomed. My fish seem to react to it like we react to a full body massage. I think it is more psychological then actual parasitic control.

If you have a Labroides dimidiatus in your tank and its eating other foods, be sure to feed it pods, baby brine shrimp, and Cyclopeze at least once every three meals.

 

[spoiledcats]

I just went home for lunch, and while there gave my fish lunch. I try to vary their diet, so this time I just fed mysis and brine. I watched and the cleaner wrasse, in fact all the fish, seem to prefer the mysis over the brine. I suppose I should put one or the other in at a time. Haven't tried cyclopeze yet, but will purchase next time I'm out. I do have pods in my tank and refugium, so maybe it eats them. It is growing, and seems healthy, but from your info, when this one goes, will not purchase another.

 

[leebca]

Some other feeding tips:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=785228