What is a Tyree coral?

[kozmo02]

How is it a shakedown? if people are WILLING to pay it, then it isn't a shakedown, when you shake someone down you are making them pay against their will.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an SL600, a 599GTB, a F430, they are bought by choice and their owners pay a premium to own the car first off the waiting lists.........you know why..........because they WANT TO AND BECAUSE THEY CAN, nobody put a gun to their head.

Nobody said Tyree is a saint, but he has done a lot for the hobby that you guys don't seem to be giving him credit for, and considering how many online retailers make money off the latest "trend" corals and charge insane prices for the hottest coral of the week, I don't see why you guys act like Tyree is some guy trying to get rich by "shaking down" people, he doesn't shake down anyone, he provides frags of corals for people that want them, those people dont mind spending the money, and they don't mind sitting on a list, so if they dont mind.........why should you?

 

[mummra100769]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7753653#post7753653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kozmo02
How is it a shakedown? if people are WILLING to pay it, then it isn't a shakedown, when you shake someone down you are making them pay against their will.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy an SL600, a 599GTB, a F430, they are bought by choice and their owners pay a premium to own the car first off the waiting lists.........you know why..........because they WANT TO AND BECAUSE THEY CAN, nobody put a gun to their head.

Seriously think about what you are saying, if you don't like the corals then don't buy them but he is certainly not shaking anyone down when people are buying these corals on their own free will with their own money.

Nobody said Tyree is a saint, but he has done a lot for the hobby that you guys don't seem to be giving him credit for, and considering how many online retailers make money off the latest "trend" corals and charge insane prices for the hottest coral of the week, I don't see why you guys act like Tyree is some guy trying to get rich by "shaking down" people, he doesn't shake down anyone, he provides frags of corals for people that want them, those people dont mind spending the money, and they don't mind sitting on a list, so if they dont mind.........why should you?

one more post for the big five-tizzle.

 

[kozmo02]

For the record, I will say that I have never personally witnessed any deviation from the list, I know when they came through Fresno it was Frank selling corals, I don't think it was Tyree if I remember right. I could be wrong. Even then, there was never any proof that he deviated from the list and sold frags to people here before he sold to anyone on any lists, I think that is just being assumed. I think for the most part the list is stuck too pretty well because I have seen numerous people here on the boards get their frags right when they were supposed to.

I've never personally dealt with Tyree or his business before, I just don't see what all the fuss is with everyone being so anti-Tyree, it seem the simple solution to that would be to just not buy from him if you don't like it, I seriously doubt anyones personal feelings here would ever make him decide to change his business tactics, and on top of that, I'd be willing to bet he doesn't even read this stuff.....seems like a waste to complain in my opinion.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7753717#post7753717 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kozmo02
For the record, I will say that I have never personally witnessed any deviation from the list, I know when they came through Fresno it was Frank selling corals, I don't think it was Tyree if I remember right. I could be wrong. Even then, there was never any proof that he deviated from the list and sold frags to people here before he sold to anyone on any lists, I think that is just being assumed. I think for the most part the list is stuck too pretty well because I have seen numerous people here on the boards get their frags right when they were supposed to.

It is not assumed. Tyree was at MY club meeting last month, and was selling TONS of LE corals.

Thats the thing, most waiting lists are for things you can't get any other way. Theres a waiting list because the item is unavailable. Thats not true with Tyree, hes selling them at a pretty brisk pace. The waiting list is NOTHING but a marketing tool. I feel bad for any sad sap on one of his lists.

 

[mummra100769]

that sounds definitive. so the "list" is just simply used to build excitement...and draw a crowd...thats what lines and waiting lists do...they catch peoples interest. like i said if he is using it to market his product then that makes him a pretty savvy business man and we were able to define what the list is being used primarily for that makes us smart consumers.

 

[MiddletonMark]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7753653#post7753653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kozmo02
Nobody said Tyree is a saint, but he has done a lot for the hobby that you guys don't seem to be giving him credit for

Well, I've read most of one of his books, and seen him talk ... but what major advances has he added to the hobby?

Anything in common use, that folks generally use?
IME, he seemed to have idiosyncratic [neat, but not for everyone] filtration ideas - some of the lighting information was interesting [but disagrees with other folks ideas/work] ... and I guess I fail to see the huge influence he has had in the hobby - excepting the LE stuff and west-coast traders.

I'm not trying to bash - but as everyone keeps talking about how much he's added to the hobby - examples would be good IMO.

 

[duec22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7757856#post7757856 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mummra100769
that sounds definitive. so the "list" is just simply used to build excitement...and draw a crowd...thats what lines and waiting lists do...they catch peoples interest. like i said if he is using it to market his product then that makes him a pretty savvy business man and we were able to define what the list is being used primarily for that makes us smart consumers.

Well, by you makeing this statement without any actual fact from Steve Tyree......I guess it would perfectly appropriate of me to say that you get all your corals by picking all the good stuff out of your shipments befor you offer them to your clients?...and ignore everything that you have said about how you obtain them...who needs your input on your business practices to make to comment...
Why do you feel the need to go sticking your nose into how or how much he sells his corals for. If you don't want to pay the price then don't...Or maybe it's because you can't sell your stuff at the same prices?

 

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7758039#post7758039 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
Well, I've read most of one of his books, and seen him talk ... but what major advances has he added to the hobby?

Anything in common use, that folks generally use?
IME, he seemed to have idiosyncratic [neat, but not for everyone] filtration ideas - some of the lighting information was interesting [but disagrees with other folks ideas/work] ... and I guess I fail to see the huge influence he has had in the hobby - excepting the LE stuff and west-coast traders.

I'm not trying to bash - but as everyone keeps talking about how much he's added to the hobby - examples would be good IMO.

Mark, he's kind of a regional dude. You would probably not heard of him outside of So Cal before the creation of RC. He was one of the early SPS keepers and importers. He along with Wayne Shang, Leng Sy, etc. were among the first to show that SPS corals could be sucessfully kept in reef aquariums.

He and Leng Sy have some really novel reefing methodologies.

 

[mummra100769]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7758542#post7758542 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by duec22
Well, by you makeing this statement without any actual fact from Steve Tyree......I guess it would perfectly appropriate of me to say that you get all your corals by picking all the good stuff out of your shipments befor you offer them to your clients?...and ignore everything that you have said about how you obtain them...who needs your input on your business practices to make to comment...
Why do you feel the need to go sticking your nose into how or how much he sells his corals for. If you don't want to pay the price then don't...Or maybe it's because you can't sell your stuff at the same prices?

could not be farther from the truth...my business connection was dragged into this by a certain member (well ex-member...he has now moved on) that holds a huge grudge. my opinions come from the hobbyist in me and I never seem to have a hard time keeping those two opinions apart from each other (although some people do)...I said what I feel on what was put down as fact. you can say anything you want about me but I try very hard to keep my business connection off RC so I can be seen as a hobbyist and not a retailer.

BTW I would never attempt an LE type sales practice...now there is nothing wrong with marketing and building product interest we just don't flow like that...the owner likes to keep things at a standard across the board mark up (plus the area we live in would not and has not supported high end prices like that in the past...hence all my purchases).

with the above stated we are not competing directly with these guys anyway...this area is to small and to few hobbyists are into the exotic to support it.

you should stop attempting to make it about me.

 

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7757606#post7757606 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
It is not assumed. Tyree was at MY club meeting last month, and was selling TONS of LE corals.

Thats the thing, most waiting lists are for things you can't get any other way. Theres a waiting list because the item is unavailable. Thats not true with Tyree, hes selling them at a pretty brisk pace. The waiting list is NOTHING but a marketing tool. I feel bad for any sad sap on one of his lists.

Who's to say what a waiting list is used for? Is there a rule that says waiting list will be the only way to attain said item? Perhaps the list is compiled because we allocates only a certain amount for online sales. The rest of his named frags are earmarked for local sales, trades, and club sales.

Case in point, I have a friend who gets bombarded with PMs (against the user agreement) for frags of her corals. She was cool about it and started taking their names in order recieved. In no time, She picked up a two year waiting list. Not because she wanted it to be that way. It just did. As a hobbyist, her priority was local trades, sales, and personal enjoyment. Those who PMed her on RC were last proirity, After a few losses, local trades, club sales, here she is answering requests from two years ago. She has since stopped taking requests. I can't say I blame her.

I know a good many of the "sad saps" on the list. Some already have that coral or have easy access to it. So why are they on the list? Are they greedy, do they want a back up??????????????

 

[kozmo02]

MiddletonMark: see tacocats response, that's basically the same understanding I have always had of Tyree as well, that he was an early SPS pioneer. Perhaps my wording made it seem like he had made huge technological advancements for the hobby, what I was actually referring to was the corals he introduced to the trade.

Again, tacocat makes an excellent point. Nowhere has Tyree ever stated what the list is used for nor does he state that he will not deviate from that list and sell to others at frag swaps, meetings, etc.

I can guarantee, and yes I did say GUARANTEE, that if Tyree showed up for meetings without any frags for people, the same people would be on here complaining that Tyree showed up empty handed and they were all hoping for frags "oh he's a fraud, he didnt bring us anything", some people just live to complain.

It really is as simple as this, if you don't like them, don't buy them, if you don't like his list, don't put your name on it

 

[duec22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7758646#post7758646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mummra100769
I said what I feel on what was put down as fact.

That is the point I was trying to show. There is little "fact" in this thread. And the comments you put down about the waiting list, how it's used, and the manner in which he sells his surplus are all speculation...

 

[duec22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7751023#post7751023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
He had 4 frags that had been purchased before the meeting. He set a list to the club of stuff we could buy. 2 more were sold at the meeting, and 3 were donated to be auctioned off.

So 9 frags of something thats got a multi year waiting list. That makes me think the list is a joke.

He brought 9 frags of the watermellon chalice to your club meeting. That's like a full years worth of growth for most of us. I find it kind of hard to believe, but if you say it's so, your club should feel extreamly honored. He didn't have anywhere nere that kind of numbers of that coral at the BACFM which is where he would have made the most from that coral.

 

[duec22]

dp

 

[mummra100769]

i will have to go look up all the uses of a waiting list and see if i have the definition wrong. i thought it could only mean really one thing when you have a waiting list posted into the next two years of people waiting for a limited edition item. what other uses could that list serve? i am truly lost on the subject now as i am not understanding what else the waiting list could mean other than the definitions described here.

duec22: much love for the nor-cal reefers.

 

[Imhotep Imhotep]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7758646#post7758646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mummra100769
could not be farther from the truth...my business connection was dragged into this by a certain member (well ex-member...he has now moved on) that holds a huge grudge. my opinions come from the hobbyist in me and I never seem to have a hard time keeping those two opinions apart from each other (although some people do)...I said what I feel on what was put down as fact. you can say anything you want about me but I try very hard to keep my business connection off RC so I can be seen as a hobbyist and not a retailer.

BTW I would never attempt an LE type sales practice...now there is nothing wrong with marketing and building product interest we just don't flow like that...the owner likes to keep things at a standard across the board mark up (plus the area we live in would not and has not supported high end prices like that in the past...hence all my purchases).

with the above stated we are not competing directly with these guys anyway...this area is to small and to few hobbyists are into the exotic to support it.

you should stop attempting to make it about me.

You kinda opened the door here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7714557#post7714557

plus my LFS has these items come in all the time and they sell whole colonies for what a frag of LE goes for, so hater? naw i'm good because i like colonies not frags.

i wonder how much that micro in my avatar would go for if it was an LE?lol

BTW, "They" usually means others not counting yourself.

I agree I see some very nice corals in your store, except I see most with NFS written in front of them. I asked why that is the case, and you responded here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7724458#post7724458

ah man i wish we would have talked then i could have cleared this up...all holds must have my approval so when you see something that is NFS then 9 out of 10 times it is for a regular that has either purchased it and is coming back for it or wanted to put it on hold for a couple of days...we get this alot, people thinking that all the good stuff is going to the employees but if you are there monday morn then you can score some really sweet stuff.

i along with all other employees must...must wait one full week before we can purcahse items.sometimes our set ups are so full with corals that the good stuff gets over looked....i would like to state that i have had sps stay in our systems for more than 6 months before they sold and triple in size...i am sorry we did not clear any of this up when you were in the store as we would have loved to do so.

That's fine, I can appreciate that. You need to take care of your good customers.

Then I read this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7726195#post7726195

will point out that this area does not support rare corals as only a select few people even know what they are and never do i have but just a few people know what these corals are going for online. there is really no market here for the super rare. i hear this all the time. i can get that at the whole salers...or why is that one more than this one? most people around here are happy with the bread and butter..which we are more than happy to sell to them.

So you are swimming in rare LPS because no one is buying them. Those corals you are posting are really "leftovers"?

everything i posted in the pics i have had multiple ones come in as we can not buy it if it is something we rarely see (another one of my policies). for us it's about hooking up the customer... i am happy with the leftovers.lol

As I said earlier, I am there almost weekly in the morning, yet I don't see these nice LPS for sale. All I see is the ones with NFS written in front of them.

If you don't have call for rare corals, why do you keep ordering them, and where do the go? As an out of the area customer, I would appreciate the opprotunity to purchase some of these colonies, if even the leftovers.


TIA,

Imho.

 

[mummra100769]

no... i only spoke in general terms about what is around here. for what it's worth other LFS also get some prized and LE quality stuff in. it was you and 2x210 who brought my employ into it. i think your post just chronicles how many times you got off topic.

like i said if you are in so often then you should speak to me as i am there every morning...if you are interested contact me privately or just call the store.

none of what you posted changes the fact that this is all about marketing product. i spoke my mind and you among a couple of others keep attempting to make it about me. thats ok when you are losing a debate most people turn to personal attacks to satisfy them selves. no harm no foul.

if you want to discuss my or any other store in this area call me or pm me your info and i will contact you but i will not be baited into defending or discussing my stores policies on RC. this is my place to be a hobbyist...not a retailer.

no harm no foul...hope to speak to you soon. better yet you could go and post in the vendor experience forum where i would be more than happy to address any mis-conseptions you have.

so please stop messing up RC for me and just let me have my opinions. thanx in advance

 

[Imhotep Imhotep]

I'm not attacking you at all my friend, but I do see inconsistency

You said the hobbyist supplying Tyree with the parent frag gets a bad deal from the Tyree thing. This has been shown to not be the case. In fact, most are store owners (like yourself) or hobbyists who want to see their nice corals marketed (or shared)across the country, but don't have the means to, or care not to.

I believe you are the one who mentioned that LEs are not rare or hard to find. That they come in all the time. Perhaps they do, but people (hobbyists with pull or vendors) snatch them up for themselves really fast. Most store owners take the nicest stuff as their own. I wouldn't respect you less if you did the same. In fact, I expect you to. Most regular hobbyists don't have easy access. Do you not agree?

So what do you do if you travel and don't have time to make friends? What if you don't work in a store? Where do you get really nice corals?

I go to your store. I see nice corals, but NFS. I go to Atlantis, I see nice corals, NFS also, but they will sell me a frag. Yes, it is super expensive, but at least you can buy a piece.

I'm not trying to attack you at all. I feel your are misrepresenting the availability of nice corals to the regular hobbyist. People are always saying the Cali reefers have all the nice stuff. This is not all the truth. We get it, but it gets picked over very hard if you don't have the right friends or connections, not too much is left. Would you not agree?

Coral vendors and hobbyists with pull see nice corals all the time. Us regular people have to pay high prices and have little selection. The selection has gotten better over the years, but the really good stuff (like your pink echino) we will never see the colony for sale at a good price.

Tyree gives you an option. Sure is his waiting list stupidly long? Sure, but it's not his fault. He didn't put his own name on the list 50 times. He isn't generating hype here on RC He hasn't posted since: 12/21/2004 03:20 PM
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=4455

If anyone is to blame for hype, it's hobbyist. Hobbyists have hyped up Purple Monster, Acans, Dendros, etc. Your pictures Mr. mummra generated hype as well. People see things nice, and they want to get some. So the hobbysits emails the online store or puts their name on Tyree's list.

It's not his fault for selling this way. Getting mad at him for his marketing is like getting made at you because you like to sell corals under 20K bulbs (example, may not be true) or for not opening earlier than 10 AM.

 

[kozmo02]

If anyone is to blame for hype, it's hobbyist. Hobbyists have hyped up Purple Monster, Acans, Dendros, etc. Your pictures Mr. mummra generated hype as well. People see things nice, and they want to get some. So the hobbysits emails the online store or puts their name on Tyree's list.

well said, and a valid point.

 

[mummra100769]

i am not mad...i just stated my opinion...i also stated many times that he is welcome to sell how ever he wants. but lets call an apple an apple. the list is for marketing purposes (at least partly) as well as marking something LE. that is my only point and some hobbyists do not feel comfortable with that level of marketing. it's ok to voice an opinion and even better when you have facts to back your opinion. no harm no foul.