What is "good value" in livestock?

TulsaReefer

New member
I didn't want to see Ian's selling thread get hijacked, so I started this for the disussion on fish prices that was beginning to start up over there. We can get some discussion going here if anyone is interested.

This is my view on the debate of "I can buy that cheaper here" concept...

The price of fish and other livestock often varies widely. And unfortunately from the outside many fish look alike, i.e. a Yellow Tang looks pretty much the same other from an outward condition. Often if they are pretty new into the store they really haven't had time to show any outward signs of problems, it will often take a few days or weeks for the effects of shipping stress to show up. Where this is a problem is some dealers (especially big box stores) really are about quick volume sales, and volume sales means turning inventory quickly. It's not uncommon for these dealers to sell fish within minutes of them coming into the store, and you probably won't see tags with the date the fish was received. And never will you see a fish that isn't for sale, they are all for sale, all the time, even with "special add-ons" like ich and internal parasites. So you go and buy a fish, it's a bargain price $25, which is $5 less than anywhere else. And it's been in the store for all of 5 hours before you buy it, but you don't know that, and neither does the person selling it to you, they usually work in the dog food section :).

So you take your great bargain home, and since your so worried about saving $5 it's most likely you don't bother to quaranteen it either, quaranteen costs extra money... Now this new fish turns out to have a health problem, and your whole tank is now at risk. You spend $15 on medication to try to clear it up, and in the end kill off a $40 coral, and the fish dies anyway. So let's see, that $5 savings how cost you $25 for the fish, $40 for the coral, and $15 for the medication for a total of $80 to save $5. I know this is an extreme example, but I see worst all the time, complete wipe outs of tanks due to saving a couple dollars.

The attitude that the lowest price must be best is an idea that the Wal-Mart stores (and other discount chains, not just them) have drummed into the minds of people to where they forget that low price doesn't always equate to good value. Value takes into account the whole picture, not just the initial outlay, as well as the risk you take when buying a product. So you buy a fish of questionable health and save $5, it ends up costing you $80. Is that a good value? You see where I'm going? If your purchase decisions are based on who can sell you an item for the lowest cost, and that's all, then be prepared to variable results. Does paying more guarantee you will have better luck, no, but again, go with a seller you trust and has had good success, either your own or friends. Go to someone who will tell you "NO" once in a while when you try to buy something that doesn't belong in your tank, who is willing to forgo a sale to make sure you have long term success. Go to the place that maybe charges a little more, but YOU trust (I don't endorse any stores here, it's YOUR choice, I have my own).

That extra $5 may save you more than you think. Over the 15+ years I've been in this hobby it's taught me two things, one is patience, the other is that quality is never more expensive in the end, you almost always get what you pay for.
 
I agree. My local lfs is very honest with me, and they are still cheap. They have made many suggestions to me, that I have appreciated greatly. I even trade out corals with one guy there.
 
Sounds like you've found a trusted supplier, which is what we all should hope to find. And if you feel they are "cheap", then that's even better :). What I want people to consider is that "cheap" doesn't always equal "good deal" when you factor in quality as a part of the equation.

In some cases if the product is a brand name product, not a fish or livestock, then you are essentially getting the same thing, so price may become a bigger part of the equation. But you still have to factor in time and effort to get a lower price, and as you said in another thread, gas isn't cheap, so driving 50 miles to save a few dollars may not make sense in most cases. I also factor in time as a part of the equation, since I have a limited amount of it in my life, so if I have to spend half an hour to save $5, I don't usually bother, my time is worth far more than that to me. This is why sometimes I may skip going to the "big box" store and buy something at a smaller place, maybe closer to home, since I know part of the savings at the big box store is in that I have to spend more time, usually standing in line to check out, and it may not be worth it if I'm only saving a couple bucks.

For me I guess if comes back to an old saying, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" or "TANSTAAFL", which was originally coined by Jerry Pournelle, and later used in a few popular science fiction books by Robert Heinlein. So usually when I think I've found a free lunch, I take a little time and can usually see why the lunch isn't free, I'm usually paying for it one way or another.
 
Everything you said is very true. We only have one day a week to do everything we need to do, because any store that is decent is at least 30 minutes from my house, most of the time the stores I need to go to are 2 hrs away, and never have time for that, as I have tons of animals, a 14 month old, and am 11 weeks pregnant, plus my husband feels like actually having some time off, lol.
 
To me, cheap is at the complete other end of quality. I seldom find the cheapest price is the best deal, not just in livestock but virtually every thing we buy.

Cheap seems to be either of lesser quality, old or outdated product or of the stolen nature.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
 
really, the fish is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

Here's a completely non-fish example of one experience.

I'm a big fan of cheap sunglasses. Yes, Ray Bans or Oakleys may have a lifetime guarentee (I don't know) or may just last forever, but not in my hands. I will lose them or sit on them or my kids will get ahold of them. Additionally, I can go through several pairs of the cheap sunglasses before I even approach the cost of the others.

For fish, I take these things into consideration:
1. Is it a fish I want? Have I looked up the proper requirements?
2. Does it look healthy? - is it swimming like it should, is the coloration appropriate? is it eating?
3. Do I trust the tank it is coming from and the owner's husbandry?
4. Is the price reasonable? It may not be the cheapest (especially when you include the internet sales), but is it within reason?

If the answer to any of these is no, then it's likely a deal breaker. If the answer to 1-3 is yes, then there may be a little more wiggle room with the price. But, regardless, if the price is way too high or low for that matter, it may not even get my attention to ask the first three questions.
 
Yeah, reminds me of when I saw a "Gem Tang" for sale a while back at an online store. Very nice fish, but there is no way I can afford (or would want to be responsible for) a fish that costs nearly $2500 dollars... One of those cases where I don't care if the fish is being hand delivered by a marine biologist and flying on it's own First Class seat on the airline (which for that price it should be!). I'm not going to be putting a $2500 fish in my tank any time soon. And even if I could afford it, if they are that rare and hard to find I'd rather have them stay in the wild...
 
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