What is killing my royal grammas!?

[Mr. Manty]

I have added two separate royal grammas to my 20 gallon fully cycled tank on two separate occasions only to find them torn apart by hermit crabs the next day. The second one didnt even last 9 hours.
I have a small punching mantis (its not him, he doesn't ever come out or even touch any hermits or my sally lightfoot or even my small arrow crab.) the crabs, and a melanurs wrasse who was buried under the sand during both deaths.

The ONLY antagonism i have ever witnessed was a red cortez hermit crab grabbing the anal fin of tthesecond gramma earlier shortly after adding him and then the gramma struggled away from his grip and hid between some other rocks.

I drip acclimated this last one for 45 minutes and he went into the tank really energetic. I added him at 3:00pm and came home at 11:30 to see him eaten to the bone which tells me he had been dead for a while. Could the sally lightfoot be doing this or did my many hermitcrabs stress kill him? Or what? Bristleworms?

 

[JohnnyHildo]

The ONLY antagonism i have ever witnessed was a red cortez hermit crab grabbing the anal fin of tthesecond gramma earlier shortly after adding him and then the gramma struggled away from his grip and hid between some other rocks.

the obvious answer seems like the right one to me.

 

[Mr. Manty]

Also with this last one i added two clowns with it. They are fine.

 

[Mr. Manty]

the obvious answer seems like the right one to me.

I mean does that ever really happen? A death caused by hermits and so quickly? This gramma was fully grown.

Granted when you add a gramma all they do is hide and the only spots to hide are on the sandbed with the rocks with the cortez hermits.

 

[Greaser9999]

I tried that fish twice, both time it disappeared without any trace! The first one lasted around a year and one day went MIA, the second lasted a couple months. None of my other fish disappeared like that, the first one would be out and bout happily swimming so I never figured out why

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[Mr. Manty]

I tried that fish twice, both time it disappeared without any trace! The first one lasted around a year and one day went MIA, the second lasted a couple months. None of my other fish disappeared like that, the first one would be out and bout happily swimming so I never figured out why

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I really dont know why. They are supposidly hardy fish! I think because they lay in rocks and crevases that any bristleworms or hermits that also inhabit those crevases can stress kill them. Maybe. Im grasping at straws.

 

[albano]

If you're not gonna QT new fish, then I'd suggest using a small acclimation tank inside the DT so you can keep the new addition 'safe' from tank mates, to rule out 'murder suspects'.
IMO/E, 45min is too long for a drip acclimation, and royal grammas can sometimes have a problem in the first few days.

 

[Nick_Northern]

Not sure if all of these were intentional additons or hitchikers but if you did add intentionally did you do any research first? you have a lot of potentially predatory crustaceans in a small tank. Sally lightfoots are fast and are known to take small fish, larger arrow crabs can also take slow/sleeping small fish (not saying yours is or will) and of course mantis are uber efficient predators which is why most people keep them in species tanks. I realise yours is small and is a smasher but why take the risk in the long run.

Also do you add enough food for all the crabs etc?

 

[Greaser9999]

Not sure if all of these were intentional additons or hitchikers but if you did add intentionally did you do any research first? you have a lot of potentially predatory crustaceans in a small tank. Sally lightfoots are fast and are known to take small fish, larger arrow crabs can also take slow/sleeping small fish (not saying yours is or will) and of course mantis are uber efficient predators which is why most people keep them in species tanks. I realise yours is small and is a smasher but why take the risk in the long run.

Also do you add enough food for all the crabs etc?

Although anything is possible, the one thing that kept spinning in my mind was if it was some kind of hitchhiking predator. If that was the case its just strange that my bicolor & lawnmower blenny never went MIA considering the fact that they also burrow inside rocks

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[Nick_Northern]

Although anything is possible, the one thing that kept spinning in my mind was if it was some kind of hitchhiking predator. If that was the case its just strange that my bicolor & lawnmower blenny never went MIA considering the fact that they also burrow inside rocks

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Does seem strange if your blennies are okay as you say but I definately wouldn't rule it out, I have removed a bobbit worm and a polyclad flatworm that was hunting my snails and I only added 2 pieces of LR to seed my tank!

 

[Greaser9999]

Does seem strange if your blennies are okay as you say but I definately wouldn't rule it out, I have removed a bobbit worm and a polyclad flatworm that was hunting my snails and I only added 2 pieces of LR to seed my tank!

I figured there had to be some kind of hitchhiker in there that's was finishing them off!! I'm usually gone at work all day so usually when I get home its just the moonlights that are on, I would stare at it for a good while almost nightly, never saw anything other than common ones like bristle worms and stuff. Just to rule out that theory I I got rid of all the live rock lol

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[Mr. Manty]

Not sure if all of these were intentional additons or hitchikers but if you did add intentionally did you do any research first? you have a lot of potentially predatory crustaceans in a small tank. Sally lightfoots are fast and are known to take small fish, larger arrow crabs can also take slow/sleeping small fish (not saying yours is or will) and of course mantis are uber efficient predators which is why most people keep them in species tanks. I realise yours is small and is a smasher but why take the risk in the long run.

Also do you add enough food for all the crabs etc?

I did do research ans smashers seem to do well with fish.
And i spot feed both the sally and arrow and mantis with raw shrimp. Not to mention how effecient all of the crabs are at finding the pellets i drop in.
I am really thinking the hermits kept on grabbing at him...

 

[Mr. Manty]

Not sure if all of these were intentional additons or hitchikers but if you did add intentionally did you do any research first? you have a lot of potentially predatory crustaceans in a small tank. Sally lightfoots are fast and are known to take small fish, larger arrow crabs can also take slow/sleeping small fish (not saying yours is or will) and of course mantis are uber efficient predators which is why most people keep them in species tanks. I realise yours is small and is a smasher but why take the risk in the long run.

Also do you add enough food for all the crabs etc?

And also for a smasher, hebas never hurt a crustacean.

 

[Mr. Manty]

Im all but certain that it was hermit crab harrasment that killed him.

MY ADVICE: Do not get any rock dwelling fish if you ha small tank and a bunch of hermit crabs in every crevice! They will not have a moment of peace and will die within hours!

 

[ThRoewer]

I have hundreds of hermit crabs in my 100 gallon tank and they get along just fine with my 3 Grammas and all the others fish.
My primary suspect would be the mantis shrimp, especially if it is one with spears instead of clubs. The ones with clubs hunt primarily hard shelled crustaceans and snails, while the ones with spears go after soft shelled crustaceans and fish.
So the fact that hermits are doing well doesn't have to mean anything.
Same goes for not seeing the mantis out much as they are primarily night active.
The other fish may have learned how to survive, but new arrivals are easy prey.

My second suspect would be the Sally Lightfoot crab.

Of course quarantine is always strongly recommend. It's just too easy to get a pest into your system.

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[Mr. Manty]

I have hundreds of hermit crabs in my 100 gallon tank and they get along just fine with my 3 Grammas and all the others fish.
My primary suspect would be the mantis shrimp, especially if it is one with spears instead of clubs. The ones with clubs hunt primarily hard shelled crustaceans and snails, while the ones with spears go after soft shelled crustaceans and fish.
So the fact that hermits are doing well doesn't have to mean anything.
Same goes for not seeing the mantis out much as they are primarily night active.
The other fish may have learned how to survive, but new arrivals are easy prey.

My second suspect would be the Sally Lightfoot crab.

Of course quarantine is always strongly recommend. It's just too easy to get a pest into your system.

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I have a Haptosquilla stoliura mantis which is a very reclusive smasher. Im pretty sure it was not him. The body was not near his den. It was either hermit harrasment (i saw him get pinched pretty bad) or the sally lightfoot. Also maybe bristleworms?

 

[Naraku]

I still think its the mantis.
Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Mantis are known to kill fish.

 

[polaravic]

Basselets and Wrasses

Basselets and Wrasses

Mantis have a bad reputation but I lost my Royal Grammas because my Carpenter's Wrasses didn't like them. I watched them 'herd' the Gramma into the rocks whenever it came out. They only lasted a few days. Both of them just disappeared. I read somewhere on RC that Basselets and wrasses are not compatible - doesn't make sense to me but that is really what I read.

polaravic

 

[Mr. Manty]

It really was not the mantis. The mantis is no stranger to fish. The only thing different about the grammas from all of the other fish i have had in the tank is their behavior: they are rock dwelling.

Im pretty sure it was harrasment in his hiding spots that got him. Especially since i witness him get pinc by a hermit.

 

[Mr. Manty]

The mantis does not evn attack small crustaceans and he is a smasher.