What is this on my clown?

[rffanat1c]

So these two fish have been in qt for almost six weeks. I've started TTM two days ago. (Backwards yes but this is how it worked out). They've been doing great and eating fine all this time. I dosed prazipro in the qt and observed nothing on them at any point and time. I look today and it appears the smaller on has a milky white substance on the top of its head. It's not stringy and is shaped like a T. It goes down towards its head and then down the body. Fish ate a little. Temp 76, sg 1.025, ph 8.2 in the bucket.

 

[Fragman4]

very hard to see in the pics. Milky white substance makes me think Brook but he wouldn't last 6 weeks with that condition. Does he look like he's shedding skin?

 

[rffanat1c]

No shedding. Swimming eating and breathing fine. Never showed this in the qt and these are the only two fish ever in that and this tank.

 

[UNCsalt]

hard to tell from the pic, could just be his markings.

 

[ThRoewer]

After doing fine for 6 weeks brook wouldn't be my first worry, not even velvet, especially if the fish show none of the typical behavior signs.
But I would keep them in mind and be prepared to fight them.

Are those Premnas (Maroons)?
If yes they seem to be quite close to each other in size and I would expect some fighting going on between them (you may not always see it). The result can be shredded fins and wounds and sometimes bacterial infections.
I would observe them from a distance to see if they start fighting if they are not distracted by you sitting in front of the tank.

 

[rffanat1c]

They are maroons. Distance is contributing to them looking the same size. The larger one is three times his size and they sleep together at night. She has kicked his but a few times but not badly. This just showed up for the first time during TTM.

 

[ThRoewer]

OK, the size difference is perfect for them then and they should get along fine.

Maroons are a bit sensitive to skin irritations and parasites like brook, uronema or trichodina, especially if they have no anemone. The last two are opportunistic and can be present on the fish or in the tank at all times and usually only start causing problems if water conditions or fish health worsens.
The treatment is pretty much the same for all 3: Formalin and malachite green.

But if you fish doesn't show any of the typical behavior that usually comes with these skin and gill parasites it can just be a mild bacterial infection of a wound (from catching him for tank transfer maybe). I would wait with treatment and see if it goes away by itself in a few days.

 

[rffanat1c]

Ok thanks. I'll keep an eye on them. I caught them with a plastic container with no issues so I doubt that was it but you never know.

 

[rffanat1c]

Well woke up this morning and it was dead

 

[ThRoewer]

Sorry to hear that.

He for sure didn't display any signs of distress? Elevated breathing, fin clamping, scratching or flashing are usually what you see if it is any of the usual ectoparasites

And did you check for ammonia?

A fish behaving perfectly normal in the evening and being dead the next morning is not unheard of but even with velvet or brook infections not common unless there is something else terribly wrong.

 

[rffanat1c]

No signs except maybe a little faster than normal breathing yesterday. They were always on the bottom 4" of the qt in their established corner of choice.

I didn't but added ammo lock on Sunday.

 

[ThRoewer]

I really wish you had mentioned the elevated breathing!

Elevated breathing and white patches on the skin are usually signs of brook, uronema or trichodina and should be treated immediately with fresh water dips followed by formalin and malachite green in the HT.

After 6 weeks brook is less likely than the other two but since the treatment is the same it really doesn't matter.

 

[rffanat1c]

Well here is the other clown. No external signs of anything, but rapid breathing. Don't expect it to make it through the night. I put him in the DT to try and save him, last ditch effort. Matched temp, sg, and ph. It had a hard time in the current so not good. Here is a video. Also Throewer, I looked at some videos online and didn't think it was that rapid for the other clown. Guess I was wrong.

http://youtu.be/H300kHZ1hvI

 

[ThRoewer]

That fish is in extremely bad shape.

Were they both like this before you started TTM or when exactly did this start?

 

[rffanat1c]

Started pretty much the day after TTM was started. Edit - not pretty much, it did start the day after TTM

 

[ThRoewer]

Started pretty much the day after TTM was started. Edit - not pretty much, it did start the day after TTM

There is a reason why I don't expose my fish to prophylactic treatments beside short FW and formalin dips. I treat ich when I see it and even then only the fish that are actually "sick".
But then I only have relatively small tanks with relatively few fish - and no tangs.

That aside, what did you do in preparation for TTM?
What did you use to sterilize the tank?
What did you put in it on equipment, water, water conditioners, or medications?
The more details the better.

To me this looks now more like some form of poisoning or water parameter horribly off than anything else.

 

[rffanat1c]

What is this on my clown?

Buckets were cleaned with tap water and no cleaners. Allowed to air dry. Buckets sat on a table in my basement with nothing else on it or near it. Heaters, thermometer, air stones, tubing, and air pumps. Water was mixed over a week ago using io and rodi. Water was put in bucket 24 hrs prior to fish going in with air stone running and I have a temp controller for each bucket. Only additive was Api ammo lock on day 2. All my temps are 76, sg is 1.024 using a refractometer. Ph in qt was 7.8 and in new water was 8.2. They were acclimated before going into the first bucket. Their not eating coincided with ammo lock treatment. Ammo lock expires 2/2019. Maybe these pics will help. This was about 12 hrs after that video. The white by his gills looks a skin tag almost.

 

[ThRoewer]

She looks better now.
Is she swimming OK and not bumping into anything anymore?
If yes than that confirms that it was some form of poisoning, most likely ammonia.

I would never put fish into a bucket for more than a few hours and only if nothing else is available. 10 gal tanks are cheap and the minimum you need for TTM are two.

I also wouldn't trust my fish to some additive and rather cycle a bunch of filter pads for a hang on filter in advance. They are cheap enough to buy 5 or 6 and place them into an established and knowingly clean tank to get infused with filter bacteria. then just put one of them into the cleaned hang on filter and replace it with another on the next transfer. Toss or sterilize (I would boil them) them after use.

And you should always put an ammonia indicator into the tank so you know what is going on in that regard.

 

[rffanat1c]

Swimming...no not really, hovering is more like it. She's not getting tossed around any longer, but likes the low flow spot the most. Breathing is still quick but slower. From time to time she lists to one side like a ship about to roll over and pops back up. I fed the tank just to feed it like I do to keep the bacteria alive and some food floated by her face but no interest. (not surprised at this point)

What about the stuff that looks like skin tags? It looks bacterial or fungus to me. Normally I'd agree with you about the buckets, but snorvich has mentioned several times that this short amount of time in water with two small fish barely being fed won't create ammonia. The bucket I took her out of is still full, I'll test for ammonia right now and get back.

 

[ThRoewer]

Premnas are very sensitive for skin problems. Bacteria, uronema, brook and the like are quite common problems with them, especially if they don't have a (bubble tip) anemone.