What lighting for S. haddoni and E. quadricolor?

[Emanuel92]

Hi everyone, my name is Emanuel and I'm a new user of the forum. I apologize for my not perfect English.

Soon I will have to move to a new house and therefore I will necessarily have to dismantle my current tub, if on the one hand I regret it, on the other hand however this will give me the opportunity to launch into a new project. There is no date yet for the move, but I would like to start planning the new aquarium.

I would like to dedicate the aquarium entirely to Stichodactyla haddoni and entacmaea quadricolor, I don't rule out also inserting some soft coral or LPS, but eventually their presence will be completely marginal.
My idea was to be inspired by these attached photos, I would really like to pair macro-algae with the anemones. So I would like to create a nice DSB with fine sand where one or two S. haddoni and the macro-algae will take place, then in a corner also build a rock to host E. quadricolor.

Now we come to the questions: first of all, what should be the minimum lighting for these two species to thrive optimally? In recent months I have done a lot of research on the forum using the "search function", I found long and very interesting discussions regarding S. gigantea, where I understood that it requires even more powerful light than SPS, but I was unable to find concrete information on regarding the amount of light that the two species that I would like to breed require. I just understood that they are happy with less light than S. gigantea. But I would like to understand exactly how much light we need. Here in Europe, with the recent geopolitical crises, the price of electric light has increased greatly and therefore there is no point in using more light than necessary...
Furthermore, I have resumed our hobby two years ago, after a break of more than ten years, and I currently have a freshwater aquarium, where lighting is not important, so I am not up to date on the subject. When I had marine aquariums many years ago, LEDs did not yet exist and neon and metal vapor lighting were used; the parameter was the watt/litre, for example I remember that for an SPS tank you had to have at least 1w/l. Now, however, with LEDs, if I understand correctly, it no longer works like that, but you have to look at the LUMEN and PAR. In short, how many LUMENS or PAR should I have for S. haddoni and E. quadricolor?
Thanks in advance for your answers and patience.

 

[griss]

First, your English is fine, no need to apologize.

@Anemone @bradleym @OrionN

All have a lot of knowledge about anemones.

That said, I haven’t kept a Haddoni since the early 2000s. When I did it was in a 200 gallon aquarium with (3) 250 watt Iwasaki 6500k MH, (2) 400 watt Radium 20000k MH and 6’ VHO actinic bulbs.

I’m still (on my 40 gallon) using MH so, I’m not really up to speed on the LEDs.

@kharmaguru @reefing102 @wvned all know a bit about LED

 

[Reefing102]

Welcome to RC!

In my opinion Bubble Tip Anemone’s (BTA) and Haddonis have a differing lighting. For a BTA, I’d say par as low as 150-200 can be sufficient but haddonis I would push at least 300 par. That said, BTAs can handle higher light, it may just need to be acclimated to it.

Most reef LEDs can give you the par you need, it’s just much of what gets brought in will need to be acclimated to higher light. I hope that makes sense!

 

[OrionN]

@Emanuel92
Welcome to RC.
S. haddoni and E. quadricolor require vastly different conditions. Haddoni requires sandy intertidal beach thus exposed to intense high light while BTA are in deeper water up to 30 feet. It really does not make sense to keep these two animals together. While these animals can adapt to various conditions in our aquarium somewhat, but intrinsically they require different environment condition to thrive.
I was never able to keep any BTA happy, they moved all over the place because I always have high light, high current reef. Haddoni do really well under this condition, but obviously not BTA.
My advice is to abandon trying to keep these two species together. Anemones are a "hard" animasl to keep, because if they're not happy, they will move and wipe out many of your corals or even your tank when they walk into a PH. Corals just died if they are not happy.

 

[Emanuel92]

Thanks everyone for the replies!

reefing102, ok, now the problem is that I'm totally ignorant about LEDs, so I need to understand a little better how this type of lighting works. With the old lamps we spoke in terms of watts/litre, for example 15 years ago I had a tank with sps corals of 200 liters net and I lit it with a 250W HQI lamp. But what do I do with LEDs now? I imagine that 300 PAR cannot be the same for a 200 liter tank (about 55 gallons), or a 1,000 liter tank (about 260 gallons). And I also imagine that more par will equal more watts consumed by the ceiling light... Right? In short, I need to understand better, would there be a link where everything is explained about LED lighting in marine aquariums?

OrionN, thanks for intervening, in recent months I have carefully read all your discussions regarding S. gigantea, so will you forgive me for a little OT? Do you still have any S. gigantea tanks? I loved looking at the photos of your anemones.
Returning to the topic, ok, I accept the advice and between the two I choose S. haddoni. As I was saying, I won't be scared if it were to burn other corals, as perhaps I won't even insert other corals, I would like to recreate a tailor-made tank for S. haddoni. A deep layer of sand, very few rocks and macroalgae, that's my idea at the moment.
Only if it turns out to be too expensive due to the very intense lighting, then I will be forced to choose BTA instead of S. haddoni, but I really hope to be able to stay on plan A with haddoni.
By the way, in this link for example there is a report of a red S. haddoni at about 20 meters deep Stichodactyla haddoni, Marshall Islands

 

[OrionN]

I am surprised to read that the anemones (Haddoni) in that article were from 20 meters down. When I research on Haddoni, if the article mentioned it, it stated that the anemone is most abundant at intertidal area. Most of the pictures also show a lot of the Haddoni exposed to air under low tide

 

[Reefing102]

Here’s a good start, though a little on the older side - Novices need LED lighting questions answered.

I then found a thread from @Ron Reefman (but can’t find it currently) where he explained how he switched his tank to LED.

With that said, there’s been quite a few enhancements in LED technology since those threads. @telegraham posts pretty good light reviews on his instagram of various fixtures (from expensive brands to cheaper brands).

At the top price end (quantity varies based on tank dimensions) - Radion XR30, Neptune Sky, or AI Hydra 64 should provide enough coverage.

Mid Range Price: Reefi Uno 2.0

Low End: Two: Viparspectra, SmatFarm, NiCrew, Noopsyche or similar would work.

In the end it boils down to price, features, warranty and related support (or lack thereof), and ultimately coverage. In the low price point I didn’t specify models (some models will have better coverage, features, etc than others).

For example, the Viparspectra is 2 channel control and does not have an app last I knew. SmatFarm is 6 channel control but no app and as I have one of the G5 models, quite frankly the spectrum leaves a bit to be desired to really get that color “pop,” but it grows coral and bubble tip anemones just fine. NiCrew, I personally wouldn’t buy another NiCrew product unless significant advancements have been made but that’s just my personal experience with the lack of control in the one light I’ve purchased. Reefi Uno has a great reputation and should cover Haddoni with no problems but the app and UI can be a bit dated looking.

 

[Emanuel92]

OrionN, I too have always read and seen videos of S. haddoni rather close to the surface, probably a situation like the one in the link is not the norm. In fact, I intend to provide the S. haddoni that I will host in my tank with adequate intense light.

reefing102, thank you very much, this was exactly the kind of topic I needed. I will calmly read all the pages and when I have finished, I will certainly have much clearer ideas. Meanwhile, I immediately found very interesting the argument that for the photosynthesis of zooxanthellae it would be enough to keep the PAR high for only 6/8 hours, and the rest of the photoperiod can be done at lower PAR.

Wanting to take a step forward, at the moment I would be oriented towards a tank of approximately 120x60x55 cm (approximately 47x24x22 inches) where at least 10 cm (4 inches) will be occupied by sand (if I remember correctly, 10 cm is enough for the DSB to work) , so I would only have 40 cm of effective water column. Since S. haddoni lives in sand, I don't need large amounts of rocks, so I don't need a high water column. In total it will be approximately 300 net liters (80 gallons).
For these dimensions, would you have any LED ceiling lights you could recommend? Something of medium quality, not top of the range, but not very poor quality either.

 

[Reefing102]

Hmm, not sure what budget you’re looking at, but I’d probably go with 2 Reefi-Unos. If that’s outside your range (or not available) I’d likely go with Noopsyches (probably 4 would work).

 

[Emanuel92]

reefing102, thanks for the advice. Reefi-Uno seems like a really great product, I like it, do you mean this model?ReeFi® LED Uno – ReeFi Lab
Buying two Reefi-Uno ceiling lights would fit into my budget without any problems, but it's the consumption that would actually go over budget. At maximum power they consume 180W, which when added for two makes 360W. I have a doubt, it would be 360W on an aquarium of around 300 litres, approximately the same consumption I had 15 years ago using T5 or MH in an SPS tank. So from an economic point of view I don't see great advantages in using an LED ceiling light (the only one would be that I don't have to change the bulbs every 6 months), I had understood that with LEDs we had managed to halve the consumption in watts compared to to the old T5 and MH systems, but maybe I'm wrong? Or am I missing something?

 

[shred5]

Hmm, not sure what budget you’re looking at, but I’d probably go with 2 Reefi-Unos. If that’s outside your range (or not available) I’d likely go with Noopsyches (probably 4 would work).

I wonder if he ships those to Europe.

 

[Reefing102]

Those are the ones, except I think only the the uno 2 pro is available. I think they discontinued the first version.

While it is a lot of wattage, many LEDs do not need to be run at 100%. This is where renting or buying a par meter comes into play.

 

[Emanuel92]

Those are the ones, except I think only the the uno 2 pro is available. I think they discontinued the first version.

I didn't mean to buy exactly from the store in the link, it was just to understand if you meant exactly that ceiling light.

While it is a lot of wattage, many LEDs do not need to be run at 100%.

Excellent thing, to get an actual idea of the costs, it would be necessary to understand a little in advance about what power it will be necessary to keep the ceiling lights at to satisfy S. haddoni. However, I fear that it will not be possible to know in advance...

This is where renting or buying a par meter comes into play.

Thanks for the advice, I will look for this tool when I start the aquarium.

 

[Emanuel92]

Now that I have everything clarified regarding the lighting (by the way, thanks everyone for helping me), I have a new question. Skimmer yes or skimmer no? Reading on the web and on the forum there are those who say that S.haddoni prefers slightly dirty water, but also those who say perfectly clean water is better. I will definitely make the sump, even if only to house the heater, since I'm afraid that if I put it directly in the tank an anemone might one day accidentally burn itself by walking on it. There will be no SPS, but only S. haddoni, some soft coral, fish and above all I thought I would host a lot of macro-algae, they will certainly help keep the water clean, perhaps the skimmer is superfluous in a tank like this. But I'm afraid that without the skimmer I might have problems with oxygen, especially at night. So at the moment I would be inclined to put it on, what do you recommend?

 

[griss]

Well, one thing about this hobby, what works for one person may not work for another. I've seen people using pretty much the exact same setup and one has tremendous success and the other not so much. I know quite a few people who are very successful without a skimmer and I know just as many that have success with a skimmer. I personally run one just because that's what I've always done

 

[shred5]

I agree some people do not have skimmers but do have some other way of exporting nutrients. A fuge, Algae reactor, water changes etc.

Also are you going to feed them? I personally like feeding my anemones except BTA's. I feel it makes them stronger and more easily can fight off things like bacteria infections. I am talking Haddoni, Mags and Giganteas.

To me skimmers are insurance and help control algae. I have ran tanks without them but personally find tanks with them far more easy.

 

[Emanuel92]

griss, shred5, I agree with the reasoning. In short, I was already inclined to use the skimmer, now I would say that I no longer have any doubts. Also because I will certainly feed the anemones and I would also like to include a good number of fish, hoping that they do not become live food for S. haddoni
However, I imagine that in this tank with S. haddoni, macroalgae and fish, a less performing skimmer will be enough compared to an SPS tank.

 

[griss]

As long as you keep up with water changes, you shouldn’t need a huge skimmer. IMO, most hobbyists tend to get a skimmer larger than they need.

 

[Hong Kong]

Hi i had one of this and she received regulary small shrimps but one night she catch for this years and complete begining of marine hobby and shops in Italy 1995 my very expensive fish...in the morning i had a mess in aquarium and as begginer didnt have some quarantine for such a cases and removed both out sadly.
Ok what i suggest you as this creature like to move as much up to find perfect place with middle flow dont like strong at all. Be ready to have some extra space as grow quite fast depend of course of feeding.

From book that in this year was the only lesson learn was written to feed her once a week with shrimp or even frozen food than left a week nothing...in this way she will gladly catch small floating particles from other fish food be sure...

If im not wrong is this the same we talk? My was slight to yellow white

colour...if im wrong correct me. Thanks.

No matter MHI or Led she will find the proper spot sometimes she move back under the shaddow to me than pop in front and stay there months.
She catch this fish dont remember the name others will add. Dont even ask me in 1995 how much was price my ex wife is ex for similar reasons hahahaha she was stingy me not. Lol.

 

[Emanuel92]

griss, I think I won't have any problems doing water changes, taking into account that in my current freshwater tank I do water changes 3 times a week... even doing one water change a week, it will still be less effort compared to now
However, I like to maintain a bit of margin, so I think in the end I will opt for a fairly high-performance skimmer, perhaps not as well as I would for an SPS tank, but just a little less.

Hong Kong, thank you for sharing your experience, very interesting! The flow will certainly be medium, because having to put a 10/15 cm layer of very fine sand, I cannot have an extremely strong flow of water.
Your S. haddoni was in really good shape, congratulations! Can I ask how many years have you kept it?