What Neptune package and modules do I buy?

[meinestrasse]

I am very confused about controllers. I am a Business Analyst in Software Development, so I figured I'd lay out my requirements and have someone architect some solutions.

Controlling is new for me. I've read about GHL Profilux, Digital Aquatics and Neptune, and the consensus I've read seems to be Neptune's Apex Aquacontroller is the way to go. But all this technical stuff is blowing my mind. Maybe someone can recommend a package for me. This is what I want to control:

1. Lighting: I have MH, fluorescents and LED moons that I'd like to control separately for on/off times.
2. Temperature: I want to be able to shut down some things when heat gets too high (ie MH), and possibly turn on a chiller and fan. And turn on heater when temp drops.
3. PH: I want to be able to dose 2-part.
4. Salinity: want to track and alert when levels are off.
5. I have two Vortechs with their own wireless controllers, but I want something that would allow me to maybe control powerheads in the future.
6. I have a Tunze Osmollator ATO with its own controller, but wouldn't mind having everything controlled from one place (ie Aquacontroller).
7. My last requirement is that I want this to be easy. Is ReefKeeper's Elite controller easier?

Let's hear some suggestions!

 

[aquamanic]

Everything you want to do, you can do with the base package and a couple of additions:

Base package (controller, display, EB8, temp probe)

Add:
additional EB8 (count your outlets but you probably need another one)
2 - pH probes
Salinity probe
WXM module (for VorTech's)
PM2 module (for salinity)
Breakout box (for ATO)
Unofficial User Guide (for making it easy!)

That should do it. Just write out the check!

 

[meinestrasse]

Thanks, aquamanic! Why 2 pH probes, though?

 

[aquamanic]

Thought you were going to use a reactor. After re-reading, you only need 1.

 

[meinestrasse]

Thanks. If I were to use a reactor, why would I need two pH probes?

Also, I clicked on your name and can't seem to locate the unofficial user guide.

 

[aquamanic]

Typically you put one in your tank and one in the reactor effluent.

The guide is stickied at the top of the forum.

 

[kayl]

Thanks. If I were to use a reactor, why would I need two pH probes?

Also, I clicked on your name and can't seem to locate the unofficial user guide.

Click on his name and click "Visit homepage"

 

[Reefinabox]

You will definitely need another EB8 or EB4 due to the shortcomings of the EB8. You SHOULD be able to get up and running with the basic Apex package with pH probe but the EB8 is designed poorly and will force you to purchase another EB.

 

[kayl]

You will definitely need another EB8 or EB4 due to the shortcomings of the EB8. You SHOULD be able to get up and running with the basic Apex package with pH probe but the EB8 is designed poorly and will force you to purchase another EB.

Sorry, my last post came on a bit harsh-

I think it's important to note that for many, if not most, people, the EB8 will work fine just as designed and a 2nd won't be needed unless the outlet space is needed.

The poor design that you claim is described in the user's manual - http://www.neptunesys.com/EB8-201004031_WEB.pdf

The reasoning and advantages/disadvantages behind each are listed in the New User's Guide.

A couple of notes about the EB8 module. These come with 8 receptacles, numbered 1 - 8. Outlets 4 and 8 are activated with mechanical relays (on the EB4, all 4 outlets are mechanical relays). These have a distinct "click" whenever they switch on/off. Mechanical relays have been around for a long time, are inexpensive and very reliable. They handle both high and low current devices well but are large and bulky compared to solid state alternatives. But, they are known to "žarc‟ and have their contacts "žpit‟. And, as far as switches go, they‟re relatively slow which is a problem in some applications. Outlets 1-3 and 5-7 are TRIAC (Triode for Alternating Current) solid state outlets. They are silent, compact and capable of hundreds of thousands of on/off cycles. They are very, very fast and can switch in fractions of a second and do that all day long without wearing out like a mechanical switch/relay would. Another advantage that TRIAC switches have over mechanical switches is that they are very good at switching high current, inductive (lighting) loads because they "œtime" their switch to the point when the current sine wave is at or near zero (what Neptune calls "žsoft start‟). This virtually eliminates the possibility of "œarcing" that can happen with mechanical relays that are indiscriminate about where in the sine wave they open/close. One problem with TRIAC controlled outlets however is that they sometimes cannot detect very low power factor devices and as a result may not switch off correctly. They fail in an "žopen‟ state. This only happens with very low power devices (i.e. < 4-5 watts). However, if you have any device like that, you might consider putting them on outlets 4 or 8. Dosing pumps are a good example of problematic devices with TRIAC outlets.

 

[Reefinabox]

Sorry, my last post came on a bit harsh-

I think it's important to note that for many, if not most, people, the EB8 will work fine just as designed and a 2nd won't be needed unless the outlet space is needed.

The poor design that you claim is described in the user's manual - http://www.neptunesys.com/EB8-201004031_WEB.pdf

The reasoning and advantages/disadvantages behind each are listed in the New User's Guide.

I have read all of that and understand why it was designed the way that it is. The big problem which is not covered in there is the TRIAC outlets are very sensitive to noise which the relay outlets provide a lot of. Additionally the TRIAC outlets are not or possibly can not be shielded from this noise which causes devices plugged into the TRIAC outlets to quickly cycle on/off when the power is turned off to the relay outlets. What you are left with is a dilemma where while the low draw devices that switch a lot are best suited for the TRIAC outlets will not turn off reliably, you also can't use them in the relay outlets because the cause the TRIAC outlets to cycle every time they turn off. From the threads I have read Neptune uses a circular logic to address these concerns. If someone complains about the low draw devices they tell them to put those on outlet 4 and 8 even though they tell you up front these were not designed for devices that switch often. If the complaint is about lights flashing when plugged into TRIAC outlets they offer the solution to move those to outlets 4 and 8. In the end it leaves you 2 true options, employ workarounds which require more equipment to be purchased, or purchase more outlets from Neptune. That is why in my other thread I suggested they separate the outlets into 4 outlet blocks with each one containing only one type of outlet. That way you build a package based on the number of each type of outlet you need.

I am not attacking but your statement "I think it's important to note that for many, if not most, people, the EB8 will work fine just as designed and a 2nd won't be needed unless the outlet space is needed." I have to disagree with. I believe most users of this system will have a dosing or maintenance system that involves the switching of multiple low current draw devices and of course they will all be using lighting.

I know where Neptune is coming from from a design standpoint but it seems they overlooked the fact that the typical end user of these devices will expect to use them in a way that causes these conflicts.

 

[meinestrasse]

I am not attacking but your statement "I think it's important to note that for many, if not most, people, the EB8 will work fine just as designed and a 2nd won't be needed unless the outlet space is needed." I have to disagree with. I believe most users of this system will have a dosing or maintenance system that involves the switching of multiple low current draw devices and of course they will all be using lighting.

I know where Neptune is coming from from a design standpoint but it seems they overlooked the fact that the typical end user of these devices will expect to use them in a way that causes these conflicts.

So should I be looking at a DA ReefKeeper or GHL Profilux, or other brand that doesn't have these switch issues? Obviously, I don't want my ATO or doser to stick on. But I don't want to be forced to buy another EB8. I mean, I am buying a controller so I don't have to worry much about things going wrong.

 

[Reefinabox]

No, in what I have found the others have these issues as well. For the money the Apex can't be beat.

 

[kayl]

Like Reefinabox said, the other controllers use both solid-state and relay switches for their power as well...