What pH is everyone aiming for?

Since I turned off my CR and went back to dripping my PH is a steady 8.35 I dissagree that PH above 8.3 is bad. SPS grow faster at a higher PH level, alge grows better at a low PH.

Knowing what your PH is, is just as important as your calcium and alk levels.

My goal is to reach 8.4
 
It's not that PH above 8.2 is bad. People run successful tank anywhere from 7.8 to 8.5.

At higher PH levels you start to get problematic precipitation of calcium carbonate and drops of alkalinity which causes deposit and clogging of heaters and pump impellers. It gets worse with each increment increase in PH.

There's really no reason to go above 8.2 on purpose. If your alkalinity and calcium are in good ranges then "forcing" higher numbers doesn't really do anything for you because you already have what is needed in the water column. But you will start to have to "dose" more and more to get higher numbers because of the precipitation.

Now on the other hand you may notice better growth of corals but that doesn't mean it's because of the higher ph/alk/calc levels. Many times it's because you are precipitating phospates out of the water column. This of course will show good results with the corals but it happened for the "wrong reason". It's best to target the problem and shoot for "normal ranges".

With all that said. If you are somewhere in the 8 to 8.3 range and don't fluctuate more then 0.20 per day then you are already fine.
 
The difference I have seen since I turned off the CR and raised my PH is great. Corals are growing faster and the alge is gone.
Remember at a higher PH, it is easier for SPS to ulitize calcium.
I will agree with you on precipitating phospates out and that is an added benefit.
 
Yes but based on what you are saying it looks like the higher PH is helping with your phosphate levels. PH doesn't normally effect the algea, but precipitating out the phosphates will remove the food source for the algea.

I disagree with what you are saying about the SPS being able to utilize the calcium easier in this case. PH plays a small role in this and as long as it's within the range it doesn't matter too much. What really matters in the balance between magnesium, calcium and KH (alk). By running a higher PH on purpose you have probably arrived at a better balance of these items. However you might be better off boosting the needed element and then shooting for 8.2 PH if possible.
 
Everything I have read says that you should try to achieve a PH of 8.3 or better in an SPS.
How much of that effects the utilization of calcium I don't know. I will pull a few articles and post them.
I am not pushing calcium levels too high. I aim for 400-410 and alk at 10.
 
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I wouldn't "aim for" any specific pH if I were you. PH meters are notorious for being inaccurate. If you are going to aim for anything, I would recommend aiming for a specific alkalinity. Alkalinity is a much more reliable parameter to check for and adjust. There have been many posting on the downside of aiming for a specific pH with devastating results. The pH in your tank depends largely upon the specific environment of your tank and the equipment you have hooked up...eg ca reactor, Kalk reactor, skimmer, refugium, C02 level in your house (which depends on the season), types of skimmer, duration of lighting period, etc. I haven't checked my pH on my tank for 3 years and I really don't care what it is. The only thing I check regularly on my tank now is Alkalinity and very rarely Ca and Mg level. If you keep your alkalinity on the higher side of the appropriate range, your pH should not fluctuate significantly. The reason for this is a concept called buffering that you learned in HS Chemistry. Good luck and happy reefing....

BTW...I still hear a lot of supposedly very experienced reefer still talking about pH as a critical parameter of reef keeping and telling new reefers that their tank pH should be this and that. I'm seeing much less discussion on pH lately on the board and I think that is a good thing.
 
Aurora- I agree with you completely and that is exactly what I tell people when they start talking about pH!
 
I'm not sure I'd agree with the fact that PH meters are notorious for being inaccurate. I'd say they are one of the more accurate measurements we can do at a cheap price. Most instruments calibrate easily and hold the calibration pretty well.

I do agree 100% with the aim being to adjust your alkalinity or KH with PH being secondary. PH and KH are different beasts but are related so neither can be "ignored". The best way I can suggest is to "boost" your KH and Calcium in a way most suitable to getting you to the "ideal" PH.

Idealy you want your PH in the 8.0-8.2 range but not at the expense of extra high or low alk/calcium levels. Knowing these 3 values you can decide the best way to boost alk & calcium short term. For example if the PH is on the low side then the best way to boost alk & calcium is with a limewater drip as opposed to 2 part or using a calcium reactor (which will lower your PH).

PH is an important measurement and shouldn't be "skipped" relying on a KH test as they are not the same thing. It's important to know your KH in ORDER to figure out the best way of boosting or raising your KH so that PH will rise or fall.

For example to raise both KH and PH you slowly add sodium carbonate to the aquarium water. The main reason why this is done is simple: carbonates raise the pH and the dKH, not just the dKH as bicarbonates do. At first, when you add this compound the pH will go up and will do so rather quickly (sodium carbonate raises the pH). As sodium carbonate reacts with acids of various kinds that are dissolved in the water, it becomes gradually neutralized (and so do the acids), with the result that the pH drops again. The more acids (or acidity) are present in the water, the longer this up and down swing of the pH will continue. Before any significant and stable changes occur, all, or just about all, acids need to be neutralized and eliminated from your aquarium water. This is done by continuing to add small amounts of sodium carbonate. Notice that I stated small amounts. We cannot add large amounts at once as the pH swings that this would bring about would be too stressful for the animals. Sodium carbonate is very high in pH and even small amounts have a large impact on the pH just about immediately after adding it to the water. So, if after adding this compound a few times you do not see the pH rising, what this really means is that acidity is still present in the water and that it causes the pH to drop again, as the effect of the sodium carbonate is eliminated or in other words chemically neutralized. Of course, when this happens, the amount of acidity is lowered as well. As long as this rise and fall continues, you have not neutralized all the acids yet and you need to continue to add sodium carbonate. You do so until the pH rise continues but the drop starts to become smaller, or disappears (at which time you know you have neutralized the acids).

PH is a critical parameter of reef keeping and that IS WHY experienced reefers talk about it. You do see less and less talk about it in general because more and more people are using balanced additives and such which helps. Our reef salt mixed are better and these things all help but it's not an excuse not to check it or to take the proper procedures to correct it.

Knowing what PH really is and how it relates to KH, calcium, magnesium, borate and CO2 levels in the water makes adjusting it not that complex. It's not a black science or some mystery. It's not just adjusted by way of calcium or neilson reactors although that is the way many "try" to balance it which is only a bandaid. I mean bandaid in the sense that as soon as the reactor is turned off or stopped the PH returns to the "normal" level which may not be in the "ideal" range.

I'm not trying to pick on you aurora but if you understand the true mechanics of PH and what it represents then you would be testing for it. How do you know the proper way to boost your alk if you don't test properly? Simply put you don't. You may be lucky and just naturally fall in the right range but it's not a good idea to give the impression that it's not important and that KH/alk is all that needs to be measured. I view this as saying you never need to check your calcium if you know your KH levels. Hell I think you could probably get by without testing calcium and relying only on your KH levels if you use a good 2 part dose but I still wouldn't recommend no one test for it.

PH is a tricky beast for many people as they think it's just some "buffering" mechanism that is fed from the alkalinity level of the water and it's not so.
 
I don't remember off the top of my head (so anyone please correct me) but in order for this media to start breaking down the PH will need to be in the 7.2-7.6ish area which you probably aren't at. :)

I'm not sure how fast it would break down either. I've never seen this approach taken before and don't think it would work but I'd like to hear any other oppinions or facts on this.

I can tell you the so called PH buffering affect of this media is misunderstood by most reefers as are PH never gets low enough for it to help our tanks. By the time it got that low everything in the tank would probably be dead already and you'd be better of starting "fresh".
 
I am having an interesting thing happen. Since adding my calcium reactor, my ph is 8.4-8.5 during night. Can climb to 8.6-8.7 with lights on during day. I can't seem to lower this without a water change. Is this ok?
 
fishnugget I would check your PH probe. I can't believe the results you are showing. I use two and cross check them. If they don't agree, I recalibrate them.

Psionicdragon, yes you can raise your PH by running exiting water from the calcium reactor over an aragonite media but it is better to use a second chamber. Easy to make with a filter housing from HD connected to the CR.

When I get back in town I have several articles about the benefits of running a high PH system (8.3 - 8.4) I will post them. These benefits are really only for SPS tanks.
 
Cayars is right on with the science and logic of what he is saying! You have to be careful in this hobby with anectdotal observations and conclusions. Historically those types of recommendations is what kills corals and newbies ambition to become an experienced hobbiest. Sometimes what you think is causing a certain outcome is only coincidental. It's the science of the hobby that keeps it moving forward and it's why SPS have become so much easier to keep.
 
The whole reason for a second chamber on a calcium reactor is to help with the depressed PH issue a CR creates. This is not new, but has been proven for many years.
 
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Cayars....You are not picking on me at all. Your post truly highlight the misinformation that is propagated in this hobby. My post is an attempt to educate other reefers as to the best way to stabilize their pH. In my experience, the way to do that is to stabilize your Alkalinity. You need to go back and review your HS chemistry and learn that it takes an exponential amount of acid to lower the pH of a solution maintained at certain pKa...or alkalinity... in a reef system. Therefore, your pH will stay within a very narrow limit if your pKa(or alkalinity) is stable. This is the concept of buffering that I'm talking about and you apparently do not understand it. If checking your tank pH gives you pleasure, by all means do that. If you think you have a pH problem, check your alkalinity. If your alkalinity is high and your pH is low, I would likely not trust the pH reading. In my opinion, pH monitoring is not necessary to be successful and can create unfounded confusion to a new hobbyist. Many hobbyist can testify to the down side of "aiming for" a specific pH with devastating results. Happy reefing....

BTW...I do have a pH meter but stopped using it 3 years ago once I realized that it's not really if my alkalinity is stable....
 
Cayars and Aurora,
You both are posting truth here to one degree or another. I agree that cayars may not completely grasp the chemistry. As Aurora has pointed out there is basic chemistry at the heart of this issue. An equalibrium of acid and base is what keeps the pH stable. As CO2 dissolves into the tank water it immediately forms carbonic acid. The carbonic acid then dissociates into carbonate and bicarbonate. All this occurs in a shifting equilibrium reaction. If the equation is driven to far to the left or right the pH will not want to remain stable at around 8.2. And will either become more acidic or basic depending on which way the equation is being driven.
Now this being said there are multiple factors that play into this process including other acids, bases and "supporting" elements. I am curious as to what Mikeatjac is going to tell us because his point goes against the science of keeping the chemistry stable. By driving the pH slightly higher, Ca is more easily precipitated. It is I suppose possible that this helps a SPS coral as it forms its skeleton. This why adding Kalkwasser has to be done slowly and not too much. Either too much or too fast raises the pH to high causing the Ca to precipitate out of solution and drives the equation to far which also leads to an eventual drop in Kh.
I can see how Aurora argues he does not need to monitor pH by watching alkalinity alone. But as a general rule, pH should be monitored unless you completely understand this chemistry we are talking about. And just as Aurora argues knowing the alk he can then know the pH is good. I know my alk is bad when my pH flucuates too much. So knowing both helps me that much more to keep things balanced.
 
I don't get how you guys are maintaining your ph around those range.

For some reason my tank is at 7.5 ph and thats after dosing some lime water.

I only have a calcium reactor running at 6.6 and sulfate denitrator, but the existing water is running through a bottle of aragonite.

Any suggestions?
 
Check the pH coming out of the reactors, if it is anything less than 7.8 that could be your problem. What is your alkalinity? Even when dosing lime water you can't get pH above7.5? Remember if you are raising pH too high you may be wiping out your alk reserve! But answer above questions and it should shed more light on problem!
 
I was experiencing low pH (7.7) so I ran my protein skimmer's air intake to a window. Within 2 days the pH made it's way up to 8.2. I thought it would stay there but as soon as I took out the airline it dropped back down to about 7.8. I guess me, my girlfriend and two dogs in a small apartment creates a lot of CO2 which is absorbed by the tank.
 
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