What store in the area has the most fish and the healthy fish right now?

[maddhugan]

disagreed

disagreed

No, not impossible. Just impractical from a retail/business standpoint.

Be prepared to spend 2-3 times more for a fish than a similar fish you can buy from a LFS that doesn't TTM/QT their incoming fish.

Would you (maddhugan) pay the premium?My guess your answer would be no.

I used the word "concept store." Personally I have done 15 batches of TTM with each batch containing more than 20 fish. Have you done TTM in 20 or more fish per batch? After doing that personally, it is my opinion that it is not impractical. One store has yet to come with this concept and one may come soon. who knows? it should not cost three times more money because they hold the fish for 12 days, i.e., until the trophonts fall off. show me the breakdown how the 12 days extra holding costs 3 times more money. I agree with you that no LFS is doing that currently. Let's say a store get's 100 fish a week, easily doable. Since I myself had done that I do know what it takes. feel free to disagree. I'm not talking about quarantine, I'm only talking about TTM. very Different processes. TTM =treatment, Quarantine is just for making sure they have succeeded in their treatment. I did TTM for all batches but have skipped the quarantine part in couple if batches without any problem.

 

[vhuang168]

Ok, I'll bite.

I used the word "concept store."

There is a reason why its STILL a 'concept store'. Do you think you are the only one or the 1st one who has thought of this? If it were feasible and as easy as you say it is, stores would be doing it already!

Personally I have done 15 batches of TTM with each batch containing more than 20 fish.

You have over 300 fish in your 280!?! Considering that you added your 1st fish on 1/14, allowing you that you started the 1st ttm on 1/2 so you finished 1/14 when you added your 1st fish, you would have had to double or triple some batches. Each batch having 20+ fish means you have to have at least 4 large tanks. But that's a discussion for another time.

Have you done TTM in 20 or more fish per batch?

No I have not done ttm with 20 fish or more. I don't have the equipment to house 20 fish so I definitely don't have the twice the equipment to do ttm with + a display. I don't think my 190 will hold 20 fish.

After doing that personally, it is my opinion that it is not impractical. One store has yet to come with this concept and one may come soon. who knows? it should not cost three times more money because they hold the fish for 12 days, i.e., until the trophonts fall off. show me the breakdown how the 12 days extra holding costs 3 times more money. I agree with you that no LFS is doing that currently. Let's say a store get's 100 fish a week, easily doable. Since I myself had done that I do know what it takes. feel free to disagree. I'm not talking about quarantine, I'm only talking about TTM. very Different processes. TTM =treatment, Quarantine is just for making sure they have succeeded in their treatment. I did TTM for all batches but have skipped the quarantine part in couple if batches without any problem.

Ok, lets take your example of 100 fish a week. And your own example of 20 fish per batch meaning each week its 5 batches.

A store is not going to order 100 fish, wait 2 weeks before selling it. So for them to have 100 fish to sell every week, they will have to have 100 fish on display, + 100 fish on the last week of ttm and + 100 fish starting ttm. That's 3 times the inventory.

Lets talk tanks. Lets take Neptune for example, they have (I believe) 12 tanks to hold fish. Which sounds about right to hold 100 fish + whatever they didn't see the week before.

Add on top of that the 1st batch of 100 fish finishing TTM, thats the 5 large tanks they are in right now, + another 5 that they transfer from/to (and I'm only using 2 sets rather than the safer 3).

Add to that ANOTHER 10 tanks for the next batch that are starting TTM.

So that's an additional 20 tanks they have to have real estate for. Not counting, power for heater, pumps, rodi and salt.

Each tank cannot be plumbed together so that if there was an outbreak in 1 tank, it won't be transferred to the other tanks potentially wiping out the whole batch. So that means they would have to be able to take each tank (and they are large tanks to hold 20+ fish each!) down, so that they can drain it and clean it properly before the next transfer. That means they would have to pay someone at the minimum a full day's wage to do the transfers.

Add to that the risk of loosing fish through stress, other diseases etc that could wipe out whole tanks of 20+ fish during the 12 day hold period.

I think 2X to 3X would be a fair estimate of what a fish store would charge if they did TTM on all their incoming fish.

But maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and start a TTM fish store!?! Show me I'm wrong and you DON'T have to charge 2X the going rate for a fish to make money and survive long term.

Heck, how many fish stores have already closed down and they didn't have the added expense of doing TTM? Do you really think adding additional running costs would have kept many of their doors open longer without adding substantially to the price of the fish? Do you think fish stores are making money hand over fist and this added running cost will not cut into their overhead!?!

 

[maddhugan]

Ok, I'll bite.



There is a reason why its STILL a 'concept store'. Do you think you are the only one or the 1st one who has thought of this? If it were feasible and as easy as you say it is, stores would be doing it already!



You have over 300 fish in your 280!?! Considering that you added your 1st fish on 1/14, allowing you that you started the 1st ttm on 1/2 so you finished 1/14 when you added your 1st fish, you would have had to double or triple some batches. Each batch having 20+ fish means you have to have at least 4 large tanks. But that's a discussion for another time.



No I have not done ttm with 20 fish or more. I don't have the equipment to house 20 fish so I definitely don't have the twice the equipment to do ttm with + a display. I don't think my 190 will hold 20 fish.



Ok, lets take your example of 100 fish a week. And your own example of 20 fish per batch meaning each week its 5 batches.

A store is not going to order 100 fish, wait 2 weeks before selling it. So for them to have 100 fish to sell every week, they will have to have 100 fish on display, + 100 fish on the last week of ttm and + 100 fish starting ttm. That's 3 times the inventory.

Lets talk tanks. Lets take Neptune for example, they have (I believe) 12 tanks to hold fish. Which sounds about right to hold 100 fish + whatever they didn't see the week before.

Add on top of that the 1st batch of 100 fish finishing TTM, thats the 5 large tanks they are in right now, + another 5 that they transfer from/to (and I'm only using 2 sets rather than the safer 3).

Add to that ANOTHER 10 tanks for the next batch that are starting TTM.

So that's an additional 20 tanks they have to have real estate for. Not counting, power for heater, pumps, rodi and salt.

Each tank cannot be plumbed together so that if there was an outbreak in 1 tank, it won't be transferred to the other tanks potentially wiping out the whole batch. So that means they would have to be able to take each tank (and they are large tanks to hold 20+ fish each!) down, so that they can drain it and clean it properly before the next transfer. That means they would have to pay someone at the minimum a full day's wage to do the transfers.

Add to that the risk of loosing fish through stress, other diseases etc that could wipe out whole tanks of 20+ fish during the 12 day hold period.

I think 2X to 3X would be a fair estimate of what a fish store would charge if they did TTM on all their incoming fish.

But maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and start a TTM fish store!?! Show me I'm wrong and you DON'T have to charge 2X the going rate for a fish to make money and survive long term.

Heck, how many fish stores have already closed down and they didn't have the added expense of doing TTM? Do you really think adding additional running costs would have kept many of their doors open longer without adding substantially to the price of the fish? Do you think fish stores are making money hand over fist and this added running cost will not cut into their overhead!?!

You are just imagining things and just adding tanks. You really don't need that many tanks. Yes I did do 15 batches of 20 or more fish. I always ordered way more extra fish than I needed. Number of my friends and coworkers who are in the hobby bought from me.
Come to my place and I will show you. well, I'm not going to argue with a person who hasn't done it. SO lets leave it at that.

 

[maddhugan]

20 gallon tanks

20 gallon tanks

I had more than 20 fish in a 20 gallon tank. Not a large tank like you imagine.

 

[maddhugan]

Yes i have 10 sets of tanks

Yes i have 10 sets of tanks

Yes I have 10 of the 20 gallons, 10 of the 300 watts heater, 10 of the airstones, etc.......

 

[maddhugan]

plumbing?

plumbing?

VHUANG, Did you say "PLUMBING" LOL. Who plumbs the TTM tanks man?
I really don't see a point in explaining you any further. LFS don't do it but it doesn't mean it is not doable. Like I said, A concept kind of store will pop up at some time.

 

[maddhugan]

5 more in my garage

5 more in my garage

 

[maddhugan]

never said a regular store would do it or has to do it

never said a regular store would do it or has to do it

I never said a regular LFS WOULD or has to do it. All I'm saying is I won't be surprised if a concept store comes into life. I'm willing to discuss with people who had actually done TTM and succeeded in it, and really know what it takes, not the ones who imagine things/cook up things and throw it out there. No point.

 

[maddhugan]

more than 60 fish this week for TTM

more than 60 fish this week for TTM

BTW this week I'm doing TTM for more than 60 fish. Please feel free to stop by my place if you would like to check it out.

 

[vhuang168]

VHUANG, Did you say "PLUMBING" LOL. Who plumbs the TTM tanks man?

I really don't see a point in explaining you any further. LFS don't do it but it doesn't mean it is not doable. Like I said, A concept kind of store will pop up at some time.

Maybe you should reread what I typed. I said they CANNOT be plumbed together thus necessitating the need to ease of access to drain n clean the tank.

 

[vhuang168]

I never said a regular LFS WOULD or has to do it. All I'm saying is I won't be surprised if a concept store comes into life. I'm willing to discuss with people who had actually done TTM and succeeded in it, and really know what it takes, not the ones who imagine things/cook up things and throw it out there. No point.

I have done TTM numerous times. Again, maybe you should reread what I wrote!?! I said I don't have the equipment to do batches of 20 fish not that I don't have the equipment to do TTM.

So basically you have nothing to refute what I suggested. Do you not need 2 tanks to do TTM? Is my suggestion of the number and frequency of fish and transfers wrong?

Please, enlighten me! I want would love to know what you think it would take for this "Concept" store, as you put it, to successfully do TTM on all their incoming fish and still stay in business.

 

[maddhugan]

for a single batch of 20 or 30 fish I use 5 of the 20 gallons

for a single batch of 20 or 30 fish I use 5 of the 20 gallons

I fill all of the 5 tanks sets at once, and just do the transfer every 3 days (not exceeding 72hrs). A single set = 300 heater + airstone + 5 ft airline tube tank + 0.5 grams of nitrofurazone + plus the cheap sun sun 2.5 watts flow pump etc...

Usually I do two batches, so I have 10 tanks, and it just reduces my work. The day I start my TTM there is a lot of work, and the day I complete the TTM there is a lot of work, and in between it is just transfers.

Salt cost is around $40 (I buy IO salt ) + haven't calculated the electricity cost as I have 20 solar panels
Some even combine hypo and TTM as it is somewhat hard for the fallen trophonts to encyst in hypo conditions (haven't tried this and will try this at some point), it just adds another layer of safety

The concept store I'm talking about doesn't necessarily have to be profit oriented in the beginning, it could begin due to frustration we all face with saltwater disease and eventually it could become profitable. These are just ideas and thoughts man. Now don't get worked up and say it shouldn't happen and it will never. Just a positive thought and that's all. Examining the possibilities. Running a fish store is not easy and everyone knows that it is not a easy business and I'm not suggesting that TTM is the most profitable or anything like that. Purely hypothetical. Peace.
Hope this explains.

 

[maddhugan]

hypo + TTM. An other tricks in TTM

hypo + TTM. An other tricks in TTM

The reason Why I haven't combined hypo and TTM is because of nitrofurazone. I don't know the effects of nitrofurazone in hypo conditions.

Couple of tricks I have been doing is
:1--I place the emerging air bubbles hit the flow pump and it chops it to microbubbles and it helpS diffusion of oxygen from gaseous phase ( air) into liquid phase (water) in the tank. It tremendously helps the oxygen transport phenomena.

2--use a square Colander (from amazon.com) that aligns good with the rectangular edge of the tank so that one can catch the fish without much damage to the fish.

3--for larger fish I use KORDON fish catcher. I have 12 of them.

4-- nitrofurazone reduces/eliminates infection of on damaged regions and infection due to over-crowding of the fish temporarily. It should be dosed correctly though.

These are some minors tricks I use to reduce the fish injury during the catching and transfers.

 

[Mr2KiEu]

smh, it's like talking to a wall :headwalls: :deadhorse: :headwally:

 

[MMacro]

I feel like this thread is starting to go a little off topic haha...:hammer:

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I feel like this thread is starting to go a little off topic haha...:hammer:

Too late. :facepalm:

 

[scuzy]

pretty much sums it up too cost prohibited for fish stores to do it. they want fast turn over money out money in.

 

[maddhugan]

I will stop

I will stop

I'm glad the guy decided on Aquatic Collection before all blew up.
Allright guys, sorry. I will stop.

 

[Robert4025]

This thread is entertaining! I guess I am an idiot for not employing TTM becuase it sounds so easy. That's it, Neptune is going down so I can go back to my 9-5 job. Anyone want to buy it? I'll give it to you for an amazing deal! Haha

 

[maddhugan]

no comments

no comments

This thread is entertaining! I guess I am an idiot for not employing TTM becuase it sounds so easy. That's it, Neptune is going down so I can go back to my 9-5 job. Anyone want to buy it? I'll give it to you for an amazing deal! Haha

Since you run a business I will keep my opinion about your fish to myself (ICH wise). lol