What to do???

[cjshorty06]

We have a 45 gal. tank. Were new to the hobby and didn't read up on things before we stocked the tank. We had things in there that i read now shouldn't be together let alone in that small of a tank. So we had a lion fish among other things and we were over feeding him. We got him right after we did a water change. After 3 days the nitrates were high in our tank. So we did another water change. The same thing happened again. So we did another water change. At this time we got rid of the lion. Because of the nitrates being high we believe it caused our other fish to get sick. We still wanted to keep the fish that we had so we treated the tank. In the mean time we bought a 135 gal. tank new rock and sand a sump for it a skimmer the best lights etc... We got it all set up on thursday and were letting it cycle for a month. no one made it to the other tank. everyone died. The last fish passed this morning. In the 45 gal. we still have a hermit crab 3 small crabs 3 snails and 2 decorator crabs and 2 feather dusters. The tank became infested with red slime algae. We dont know what to do. How can we keep them from dying to?? If we move them to the new tank after only a week will they die or worse yet will they infect that tank too? Please help. Ths is a sad thing that could of been prevented if we only would of researched before jumping into a hobby we knew nothing about. Other newbies reading this please learn from our mistate. Thank you in advance for any light anyone can shed on this.

 

[dileggi]

Sorry to hear of the problems.

Just some questions...how long was the initial tank running for? What type of water are you using to fill the tank? What were your other water parameter's?

As for the red slime algae, that's cyano, which is actually a bacteria, not an algae. It's very very common in new tanks and most tanks go thru that cycle. Don't get worried if your new tank goes thru that cycle as most likely it will. I highly doubt that they cyano was the cause of death to the fish.

You mention your nitrates were high...how high were they?

 

[dileggi]

BTW...by doing weekly water changes, siphoning out the cyano with a net, adding a phosban reactor and a skimmer, that will also help clear up the cyano a little faster.

Going lights out for 3 days will help clear the cyano as well as making sure you have enough flow.

Again...they cyano is very very common and there is a sticky section in the newbie area regarding it. It's worth a read.

 

[cjshorty06]

On the 45 gal. we had a cpr backpack skimmer and a canister filter and a level 2 power head. The tank was set up for 4 mo. We bought it from someone who had it set up for 4 years. We used the same sand and rock that he had in it. And abot 1/3 of the same water. We use premixed water from our lfs and ro to top it off. We have a phosban reactor on the new tank. Can i use that one for a month on the 45 gal. Or should i not interchange things between tanks? Im unsure of how high the nitrates were. We brought a water sample to the lfs ant thats what they told us.

 

[stingythingy45]

First off.
You need to check all the parameters in the 45 gallon.
Especially the ammonia.
What are you checking SG with?
I'm actually shocked that you have snails still alive.

 

[cjshorty06]

We use the test strips mostly. When were concerned we take the watre to the store. Before we put anyone in the new tank were going to invest in a quarintine tank and a liquid test kit for sure. The snails look like their doing fine and so do the crabs and the hermit. What are signs of them being sick? Im unsure of what you mean by this. "What are you checking SG with?"

 

[dileggi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11778584#post11778584 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stingythingy45
First off.
You need to check all the parameters in the 45 gallon.
Especially the ammonia.
What are you checking SG with?
I'm actually shocked that you have snails still alive.

I agree with stingy. You certainly need to check all your water param's. I would also suggest in investing in a liquid test kit. They're not the expensive and much more accurate than the strips.

Again, I agree on the snails/crabs. They're usually the 1st to go.

You mentioned you were using pre-mixed water from the LFS. Have you ever had them test their water?

 

[cjshorty06]

no i havent had them test their water. i just assumed it was ok because none of their stuff is dying. I will have them test their water. Thanks for the advice. Based on what i told you what do you think is wrong with my tank.

 

[dileggi]

I'm certainly not an expert or that experienced. Hopefully, someone with more experience will chime in as well.

The flow seems low in the tank, but if it's FO and not corals at this time, you're probably OK.

To be honest, it's really hard to tell without knowing any water parameters. It could've been nitrates, amonia spike, salinity, etc. It's pretty hard to tell. Even if the LFS tests the water, and it's OK leaving the store, it's hard to tell since something could've spiked in your tank.

What about hitchikers on your LR? What type and how big were the crabs you had that weren't hermit crabs?

I'm just stretching here without really knowing. Seeing as how all the fish pretty much died at once, if I read correctly, I would assume it's something with your water. The only think that leads me to possibly believe otherwise is the fact your snails and crabs are still alive.

 

[Shooter7]

Potentially not enough flow leading to not enough surface agitation and therefore potential low oxygenation of the water. Possible overstocking. Without specific water test values, it's almost impossible to say anything specific, and then it may not have been just one thing, but the conglomeration of several. The question of what are you measuring your salinity with is valid....what are you? Hydrometer, refractometer? If you don't have anything to measure it, that's a huge no no. You also mentioned that you "treated" your other "sick" fish. What did you use to treat them? There are a multitude of things that could be wrong and I think it would be really hard to say just what happened. You need to really research your setup now and get things in line before stocking. Something to measure salinity, new test kits, RO/DI unit for your own water production, accurate measure of how much flow you have in the tank are just some places to start.

 

[cjshorty06]

they are 3 tiny crabs we bought them at the same time as the snails. Yeah we had too may fish in there and they died with a month of having them but all in the same week. 3 tangs (yellow, powder brown and yellow eye) 2 blennies a benggai cardinal and a sting ray. I will get a liquid test kit and let you know what the parameters are. It probably wont be for a couple days though. The test strip says...nitrates 40,nitrite 0, alkalinity 300, ph 7.8, ammonia 0. We have no corals.

 

[cjshorty06]

I measure the salinity with an instant ocean hydrometer. it is at 1.024 We treated the tank with mela fix and pima fix. It is all natural and made by aquarium pharmaceuticals. Before this we tried tetracycline. I read about their symptoms and this is what was recommended.

 

[cjshorty06]

all of the fish seemed fine, they were eating and everything. right before they died it looked like they had slime on their bodies and one of the tangs had it on her eye they had what looked like a red stripe on them and righ before they died they started breathing rapidly. When the damsel died she looked like she had a whole through her body and torn fins. But i dont know if the hermit got her.

 

[dileggi]

Ok, so the crabs weren't the culprit and no other hitchers like mantis or bigger starfish or anything.

You said tangs...any chance you noticed any ich on the tangs?

Nitrates are high, but I believe it would have to be over 40 for fish to be affected. They can stand higher nitrates than other things.

I'm not sure if inverts..crabs/snails for this purpose....are affected by ich, but that could spread in no time to the other fish and tangs are suspect to that and that was an awfully small tank for just one yellow tang, let alone other tangs as well.

Tangs will get stressed in small tanks and that can lead to ich, which again, is highly contagious to the other fish as well.

You stated what you treated the fish with. Did you QT the fish when treating, or did you treat the tank?

 

[dileggi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11779258#post11779258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cjshorty06
all of the fish seemed fine, they were eating and everything. right before they died it looked like they had slime on their bodies and one of the tangs had it on her eye they had what looked like a red stripe on them and righ before they died they started breathing rapidly. When the damsel died she looked like she had a whole through her body and torn fins. But i dont know if the hermit got her.

Well, as mentioned, there is ich, although I believe that marine ich would look similar to the ich the freshwater fish would get.

It could've been fin rot, hole in the head..if marine fish get this...that I am not sure of. It could've also been ich.

The heavy breathing could be from stress because they were ill, lack of flow/oxygen in the water or nitrate poison. I believe all 3, among other things could cause the heavy breathing. But again, nitrate at 40 I wouldn't think, would hurt the fish...unless of course water parameter's changed drastically in a sort period of time.

 

[Ratkiller]

If you're already cycling the 135, I suggest not using any of the other water or equiment from the 45. Start completely fresh. And tangs are not good for beginners, they are pron to ich and other problems. Even after they die I've heard stories of it staying in the water. Sticking the 135 keep it simple. Let every thing settle in for at least 6 months. And again the water, I suggest not getting premixed. Stores pull that stuff from their display tanks and considering they take trade ins from people off the street, you never know what's in their water. To be on the safe side, buy the fresh RO water and mix you own.

 

[cjshorty06]

I didnt qt the fish i treated the tank because everything was dying so i figured they all needed it. Their were no hitchhikers on the rock it was rock that the previous owners had for 4 years. I didnt notice ich. All of the fish died even after water changes like 3 days after.

 

[dileggi]

It could've been the water, or a disease that spread. Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it is quite hard to speculate without all the other info, like water param's etc.

You also mentioned the stuff you treated the tank with. Were they all safe for saltwater? Did they state if you could mix it directly to the tank with the higher SG, or did you need to mix it with hypo water??

I know it's not the best answer, but I really think it's going to be tough for anyone to answer since it's all speculation without a lot of info.

I would have to agree with not using any of the older water if you can help it.

Just start fresh, and any equipment you use from the old tank, just bathe in vinegar/hot water to "sterilize" if it was some sort of disease. There's no reason to risk a transfer of disease into a brand new tank.

Since the tank was already running for 4 years before you purchased it, I would have to narrow it down to water chemistry of some sort, or fish disease. I'm leaning more towards fish disease...but again...only becase the snails and crabs lived. If it was a water chemistry problem, I would have to think they would've been the first to go.

 

[cjshorty06]

Thank you everyone for all of your help. If i figure out what the problem is i will let you know. The previous owners of the tank also said that things died on them too and no one could pin point why. When we bought the tank from them we didn't sterilize things and we should of. We wont be using any of the equipment from the old tank for the new one. The new tank has been cycling almost a week and it has all new equipment rock and sand. Do you think i could transfer my crabs and snails to it. Im afraid they are going to die. Could they infect my new tank?

 

[Ratkiller]

Should be OK but make sure to check the parameters first.