What's Going On??

[keeperofcorals]

I saw this thread under ReefNest and was wondering what is going on. I thought everything was settled and agreed on.
Things like this is exactly why we want to run for the BOD. Things like this need to stop in this club. There have been too many times that one person has made final decisions or has caused problems with events, etc. and nothing was done about it. I thought this club was running under the use of the bylaws but it isn't showing that. The bylaws state that the majority has to make decisions not just one person. And to top it off, it is always the same person causing problems or changing decisions.

I'm not trying to start problems here but I think the club needs to know what is going on and not find out after things have happened.

Here is the thread for those of you that haven't seen it and want to know what I am talking about http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=830016

Thanks

----Rich----

 

[JonK]

All the BOD is asking for is invoices, receipts etc. from the place that is holding the event. You can't just throw money around and not be accountable for what is spent.

NCPARS is still sponsoring the event.


I guess when the treasurer is asking for invoices to keep a paper trail of how and where the money is spent he's causing trouble. NO! He's doing his job.

 

[eastonreef]

wouldn't a cancelled check be enough of a receipt?

 

[Mal3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7231371#post7231371 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eastonreef
wouldn't a cancelled check be enough of a receipt?

Easy answer NO! A canceled check is proof of money spent only. You need a valid invoice for proof of what you are paying.

NCPARS has agreed to sponsor the upcoming event. We have not been given the contract stating the cost and terms for the place. We never hold events without having an agreement in place in advance. This assures our reservation and identifies the cost so there are no surprises. Payment for the Room and Food is pending an invoice or rental agreement from Benjies. It is just that simple. Mo saying the event is in question is his decision because he apparently does not want to provide the contract. No one said we were not sponsoring the event. However, at this time we have nothing from the vendor stating that there is a reservation for the place or what they are charging.

We have been working with Mo to try to get the documentation from Benjies. Benjies has not returned any phone calls that I have made over the last 10 days. In fact, when I called there, they told me that they do not know anything of this event and they do not rent out!

I am doing my job as treasurer!


So now everyone can just jump to all the conclusions they wish! I suggest you get the facts before you do so.

 

[keeperofcorals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7233113#post7233113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mal3
We never hold events without having an agreement in place in advance. This assures our reservation and identifies the cost so there are no surprises.

If you never hold events without having an agreement or invoices then does that mean that any member can ask and see invoices and/or agreements from the Hegins Fire Hall from the swaps that were held there? If so, please let us know when that information would be available.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7233113#post7233113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mal3
In fact, when I called there, they told me that they do not know anything of this event and they do not rent out!

First of all you went over Mo's head when you called Benji's. Second of all, if you spoke with the right person and not some waitress that answered the phone you would have found out that Benji's does know what is going on and you might have been able to get things taken care of.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7233113#post7233113 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mal3
I suggest you get the facts before you do so.!

We do have the facts that's one of the reasons I asked my initial question.


----Rich----

 

[keeperofcorals]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7233651#post7233651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by keeperofcorals
If you never hold events without having an agreement and/or invoices then does that mean that any member can ask and see invoices and/or agreements from the Hegins Fire Hall from the swaps that were held there? If so, please let us know when that information would be available.



First of all you went over Mo's head when you called Benji's. Second of all, if you spoke with the right person and not some waitress that answered the phone you would have found out that Benji's does know what is going on and you might have been able to get things taken care of.


We do have the facts that's one of the reasons why I asked my initial question.


----Rich----

 

[keeperofcorals]

sorry for the double post

----Rich----

 

[JonK]

When was the last time you rented a fire hall or similar you didn't sign a contract/ invoice? Of course, there were agreements with Hegins.

And obviously you don't have all the facts, you have all the facts that are selectively given to you.

 

[Barney121]

This is all silly, NCPARS is having trouble getting an invoice because all of this is done by email and phone and just takes too long, we've actually committed to spend more on this swap than we have on any others. Things shouldn't be this hard, for some reason they are; neither an invoice nor a call to the venue seems unprofessional to ask for. Everything just takes too long. But the check will get there, it's certainly been approved.

 

[Mal3]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7233651#post7233651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by keeperofcorals
If you never hold events without having an agreement or invoices then does that mean that any member can ask and see invoices and/or agreements from the Hegins Fire Hall from the swaps that were held there? If so, please let us know when that information would be available.



First of all you went over Mo's head when you called Benji's. Second of all, if you spoke with the right person and not some waitress that answered the phone you would have found out that Benji's does know what is going on and you might have been able to get things taken care of.


We do have the facts that's one of the reasons I asked my initial question.


----Rich----

No you do not have the facts because you did not speak to me about this. How would you know what I did? Anything you are getting is second hand information since I am dealing with this.

Ever since we had a problem with the an arrangement for the hall at Higgens several years ago, we get agreements. Our records are in order and every penny is accounted for. Yes, we have rental agreements. Yes, anyone can see the books at your time and expense.

As far as going over Mo's head that is BS. If we are paying the bill, we have the right to contact the vendor. We have been asking for an agreement or an invoice for this ever since we agreed to pay for the event. I called there to take care of it, since we did not receive any form of invoice, rental agreement, or terms of what we are paying as we requested.

I called Benjies, and I spoke to the manager. She gave me the owners cell phone number and I called the owner six times on four days. The manager also gave the owner a message of my call. I also called Mo and told him that I called. So do not tell me I did not talk to the right people! They told me that they do not rent out their place and that nothing was aranged for Mo. No one called back from Benjies to confirm. I will send payment of the club money when we receive proper confirmation and an invoice/contract from the place of buisness.

 

[Barney121]

I understand that this has now worked out, so let's drop it. Posting matters like this publicly in RC is simply not constructive.

 

[shimmy_yaz]

Yeah it is the matters like this that make me realize it is better to not be a member and just be an RC lurker

 

[Fizz71]

..but without membership we wouldn't be able to sponsor this event. Without membership we have very little cash coming into the club. Without membership there is no NCPARS.

When bickering occurs on RC you wind up with a lot of people thinking like you just said Mike. The problem is that the whole truth isn't here. You get pieces of misinformation and a few people who care more about raising trouble than putting on a good event. People who automatically think the WORSE of any situation rather than getting the whole truth. There was never ONE SECOND of doubt in my mind that NCPARS would be able to sponsor this event...not once...then I came in here and saw Mo's post and my heart just dropped...again. I called him last night to try to figure out what is going on and from what we discussed, everything is moving along.

I was so hoping this event would help bond the club with Reefnest and get people involved in NCPARS so it can start growing again; lurkers don't help an organization grow. I was hoping it was the last thing I could do for this club before I bow out. But now people are thinking negative about NCPARS again...for no reason other than...frankly...paranoia.

A lot goes into the club and events than isn't seen on this forum. Unfortunately..only the bad stuff gets the attention on here. This makes people lurk rather than get involved and I certainly don't blame them.

Whatever you do Mike..don't think that by reading threads in here that you have the full picture of the club.

--Fizz

 

[sassyfishy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7235983#post7235983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shimmy_yaz
Yeah it is the matters like this that make me realize it is better to not be a member and just be an RC lurker

Ditto, here.

This may sound somewhat harsh - but it isn't meant to be.

I only offer this as constructive criticism. As an "outsider" or "lurker" who had planned to join this club, I'm sure I'm only one of possibly many who may be viewing this exchange as unprofessional. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it appears to me that there are some personal animosities between members in this club, and unfortunately, they are being aired like dirty laundry in public for the world to see. This doesn't benefit the club, in my personal opinion.

 

[sassyfishy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7236025#post7236025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fizz71
..lurkers don't help an organization grow.

--Fizz

I've quoted this part of your post, only to highlight the fact that lurkers are often your potential new members. I'm sure you're aware of that already, but I felt the need to emphasize it.

 

[keeperofcorals]

This situation was brought to the attention of the members because it involved them if that's unprofessional then I'm not sure what people have been complaining about when they said that they want the club to let them know what is going on. I find it unprofessional when a club is not informing it's members of what is going on. I find it unprofessional that a club was letting people think that they would be attending an event that may have been cancelled or changed and planning on not letting anyone know until it was possibly very close to the event's date.
I find it unprofessional that some people who are "in charge" are quick to cover up what they are doing by saying that people have a personal agenda against them or that people don't know the facts. I'm sorry if there are certain people who can't handle the fact that others DO know what is going on.

Mo was right to let people know of what is going on because if nothing was said and something happened everyone involved with the event would have been upset that they didn't know what was going on. Unfortunately, the only way to let others know of what is going on bad or good is to post it here. That is one of the main reasons why we were pushing using the club's website so much. Our club doesn't meet in person regulalry enough to be able to disuss issues.

As mentioned in past threads and discussions, this is exactly the type of situation that is kept hush hush until something happens and makes members upset and then people get accused of keeping people in the dark, having agendas, etc.
I posted this thread hoping for some more explaination. But as typical it turned into nothing but a start of an argument. Which I am not doing here. The information that has been given by Mal was information that was already known and of course there wasn't any more given.

There are no personal attacks going on, this is just a phrase that has been used a lot to make situations go away. It's just there are only a few people that speak their mind. Unfortunately not everyone who gets upset or happy about something posts in regards to such.

I noticed, and I'm sure others did to, that the two posts regarding this struck a nerve. But right now that seems to be the only way things get done.

Discussions like this are good to a point. These "lurkers" that have been mentioned not only see things that may seem bad but they get to see how the club as a whole takes care of problems. You have to be "blind" to think that only good goes on in any club. If there was a better way for matters to be taken care of then that would be great but until then stuff has to be done the way we have been doing it.

The event coming up will be having a lot going on and it is going to be a great event. Myself and I'm sure a lot of others are very happy that such an event like this one is able to be done.
I am hoping that the post saying that things have been taken care is true.

Like I said earlier, there are no personal attacks going on here as far as I'm concerned no matter what some others are thinking. We will be together soon at the swap and there are several topics that will be discussed in person.

This will be my last post on this thread due to not wanting to argue. If anyone wants constructive discussion from me then I will respond.

I can also be contacted by email rkk3@comcast.net

----Rich----

 

[Fizz71]

First let me address Sassyfish...I fear you misinterpreted my point and maybe read it as negative...It was not. Yes I do know that lurkers become members but not when they REMAIN lurkers...and that was actually my point... When nothing but negative things are posted and people "jump the gun" on issues or misrepresent what is going on the lurkers take it as truth and will remain lurkers and not help the club grow because all they see is negative. We don't offer a lot of in-person contact to turn a lurker into a member so all we have is this forum and few events a year.

I apologize if I came off wrong.



And Rich..I know you said you wouldn't respond, but I have to say this.... You are wrong. I'm sorry to say that..but I have to completely disagree with you on this one. Mo should NOT have posted that thread. It was a paranoid response to something that happened between him and Mal in the past and he feared it was happening again. It didn't need to be public. It under-minded the club's attempt to move forward now that we are NPO; we found a way to help his project and we have every intention of following through. But Mo panicked and thought a repeat of the past was happening, and put up a thread he thought was harmless that once again made the whole BOD and NCPARS look bad...unjustifiably so.

Mo and are are supposed to be working out this swap together as the people leading each of the respective clubs and taking point on the organization of the event. I talked to Mo on Friday or Saturday and got no negative vibes that there were any issues. I come home on Sunday night to a barrage of negative emails about us not sponsoring and the thread he posted about what he thought was happening and needed to happen. It took a 30 minute phone call to clear it all up, but now the damage is done.

And now we get posts like yours....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7236461#post7236461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by keeperofcorals
I find it unprofessional when a club is not informing it's members of what is going on. I find it unprofessional that a club was letting people think that they would be attending an event that may have been cancelled or changed and planning on not letting anyone know until it was possibly very close to the event's
date.

We didn't "inform the members" because there were NO cancellations or changes in the plan as far as any of the rest of the BOD was concerned. There was nothing to inform you of! Only Mo in a panic because of how he was reading the situation. So once again..you're trying to show you know what's going on..but you really didn't.

I usually try to be very PC on here..atleast for as long as I'm the president...and try to not personally tell somebody that they are wrong...but the top of your thread was misinformed based on the facts that you thought you had. Again..I'm sorry to be harsh...but if I read your thread as a "lurker" I would think the BOD is hiding something and was doing something that we certainly were not.

This is not a personal attack on you so please don't read it as such...I am just trying to emphasize that what you and everybody else says needs to be worded carefully. I read these posts and hear "the sky is falling the sky is falling" in the back of my head..that is not the case...but that IS the impression I get, so I'm willing to bet others get the same impression. It's a bump in the road..that's all.

Nobody in NCPARS had any intention of deviating from what was announced. We had some issues contacting the vendor and getting proper paperwork but it is moving forward. Mo panicked..plain and simple. I can certainly understand his feelings on the issue because of things that have happened in the past, but his one little panic thread made public took everything that NCPARS was trying to do to rejuvenate the club and killed it.

Rich..You're initial post on this thread WAS justified. I certainly have no problems with the "heads up" of the other thread..It was Mo's thread that shouldn't have been made. But please be careful about how you word what you think the board is doing...the rest of your last post was good except for that one paragraph I quoted above...it was incorrect...and will be misread by every lurker or member on this board. That is the part of your post that I have a problem with. It hurts the club because YOU think something is happening that is not..and now others will read that and think it's true.

Do you really want EVERY detail of what is going on to be publicized? Does MACNA post every little wrinkle of what is happening with their events?

We are continuing to coordinate this event as planned..plain and simple. I am currently working with Mo on purchasing the corals through one of his contacts and having them shipped to him, and working out how we will frag them to give away....not exactly as we had discussed/planned, but with the same results as planned. There are other little things being worked out, but nothing that justifies telling everybody about because it's all just part of the stuff that happens when organizing the event. If there were major changes in the plan we would notify the membership as soon as we knew the changes were definite. And right now..there are no changes to the final results of the plan that are even being CONSIDERED.


--Fizz

 

[sassyfishy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7236871#post7236871 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fizz71
First let me address Sassyfish...I fear you misinterpreted my point and maybe read it as negative...It was not. Yes I do know that lurkers become members but not when they REMAIN lurkers...and that was actually my point... When nothing but negative things are posted and people "jump the gun" on issues or misrepresent what is going on the lurkers take it as truth and will remain lurkers and not help the club grow because all they see is negative. We don't offer a lot of in-person contact to turn a lurker into a member so all we have is this forum and few events a year.

I apologize if I came off wrong.

--Fizz

I absolutely agree with what you wrote here, and I thank you for the explanation. Yes, lurkers often remain lurkers if they see heated verbal exchanges that cause them to be fearful of joining.

To be quite honest, if all a lurker sees is someone's word against another's word, without knowing anything about the club, it's members or BOD, it's easy to see why one could be scared off.

I don't know Mo, or anyone else, but I can't help but wonder if Mo will reply to this thread. Although it is certainly his prerogative, in my opinion, it might help to clarify some of the misunderstandings that have occurred.

 

[shimmy_yaz]

Yes that was exactly my point in my statement. I have been lurking on here for awhile now and have enjoyed the many threads I have read. I plan on becoming a member of the club just have been basically waiting to actually attend an event and see the whole picture first. I know that you guys do a lot for the events and what not and unfortunatlly I will not be able to contribute as much as others however I will still enjoy being a member. Without putting it in so many words my message was intended to get a point across and Fizz picked right up on it. With some members already distraught over things in the club and new potential members seeing all of this bickering it does not look good for the club as a whole. I intend to join the club to form a bond with fellow reefers who enjoy the hobby as I do. I do not however want to join into something that ends up being a huge bash session amongst members and constant animosity that I feel could spill over into the actual events. How is it gonna work if members can't even get along together on an online forum. How are they going to coincide in the same building during a swap. Personally life for me already has enough drama and I frankly do not need to do anything to add more drama to it. So with that being said, yes I do indeed still wish to hopefully become a member but in order for me to make the decision to do so I have to see that it is gonna be worth my wild to join the club for the wonderful benefits that are included not just so I am part of a fight fest.

 

[Fizz71]

If you look closely it's a lot of the same names that have the big issues and blow things out of proportion. There are a lot of people who are members, but still lurk..because they don't want to be involved in the senseless debate. Quite frankly if I weren't the president I wouldn't bother either, but as the main "figure head" of the club I feel it's my responsibility to respond to every action or voice heard on here, especially if it's not accurate. I've had several conversations with Tim (Bytor..our Vice President) and he is well aware of what goes on here but has told me on several occasions that I respond with the appropriate PC comment to explain the issue where he'd be more apt to...let's say...be less PC about it. So he keeps his mouth shut and let's me do the talking.

We have other BOD members as well who will just write people off as a troublemakers and don't bother to comment, but I know that if nothing is said, people will believe the people who are making issues out of non-issues and just seem to ENJOY causing trouble. Like they're looking for that one big chance to say... AH HAH...I was right! ...it hasn't happened yet...but they think things are going on that are all in their mind..and they will never be convinced otherwise. So when they see one GLIMPSE of support that something is going on, they jump on it without being fully informed. The folks who have been around a while know better..but those new "lurkers" don't so it's why I keep posting...for now.

It's really a shame that something I once loved has become something I now detest. I could probably run for office again this year and I'd probably get in too because there are more people out there that are members and do know more is going on than seen on this board. Mo himself has told me that I should run..despite all you've seen on here he still knows that I have the club's best interest at heart and have no hidden agendas.

But I just don't want to put up with it anymore so as of July 1st I will probably be just another "lurker" like the rest. It's the only way I'll have some peace and start to enjoy this hobby again.

And Mike...just about everybody waits until the first event to sign up for membership. Hell...some of our board members and probably about 90% of the people running for office this year haven't paid 2006 dues yet...and that's because we don't push the issue for ANYBODY..including the BOD. Once the first swap hits, then we draw the line...Save the stamp...I don't mind.

--Fizz