What's the deal? (Name brand corals)

[ksicard]

where do people buy most of their maricultured pieces? I'm kinda new to the sps game so I'm still looking for the good vendors.

 

[biggles]

I totally agree with dvanacker. I've had the worst luck with mariculture/wild colony's (to me they are the same thing).

I've stopped buying any mari/wild colony's, and I now stick to buying only aquaculture frags from local hobbyists. I too had great success with wild colony's.....for about 3-6 months. After that, they all slowly started to stn/RTN.

I think if u wanna have a successful SPS tank, stick with aquaculture.

I haven't experienced this 3-6 month coral demise ever and doubt very much that any saltwater LFS in Australia would still be open if this was an actual non tank specific event. There are literally thousands of reefers in Australia keeping all wild coral reefs for years due to circumstance - not choice. Don't take it that i'm having a shot at you btw, i'm just pointing out that your experience is not the norm to my knowledge.
If i had the choice i wouldn't buy wild due to conservation but having had no experience nor the possibility of trying SPS corals that have been raised for generations in the aquaculture industry i have no idea how easy they are to keep in comparison to wild stock. Obviously they are proven to live well in good artificial conditions and display great colors and for that i would gladly pay more - to a point. I agree with the sentiments dvanacker expressed earlier re the ridiculous prices being asked for frags which in many cases have only been kept in captivity for months prior to being marketed - that's not what i consider proven in color or health and i'd be doing the same, letting others take the risk and then pinching a frag once i thought the color was cool lol.
I think wild stock should be avoided unless you have experience with maintaining an SPS system with very stable parameters. Obviously it's not impossible to keep wild corals for years as i and many others have been doing for quite some time but i can see that where the choice exists to stock proven tank raised corals that your chances at avoiding failure increase greatly so that is obviously the prudent choice for reefers and i wouldn't suggest trying wild corals when such a choice existed until you have 12 months under your belt successfully raising aquacultured corals.

My tank is 5 months old with SPS added starting 4 months ago - it wasn't thrown together in a month and it will take another year before it looks established and grown in but i will say this. I have always monitored my tanks extremely well, as in i give every coral the visual once over every day along with regular water tests and the only way i have ever kept my tanks is with very, very stable conditions and proven lighting so i am almost certain that you will have a bad experience with wild stock if you cannot do the same - they don't forgive and forget if you goof and the goof doesn't need to be a big one. I let my alk drop to 6.1 over a week and i caught early signs of STN in a morning visual on one colony and stopped the problem fast, if i hadn't looked at the corals that morning i'm sure that things would have been much worse by that night after the alk kept dropping during the day - this is what i mean by monitoring my reefs very closely every day and i'm sure it has contributed greatly to my previous success with wild only SPS reefs. What i don't use equipment wise i make up for in manual monitoring and maintenance, my version of ' not hard to keep ' is likely very different to what others consider the same as i've seen plenty of aussie reefers over the years struggle with SPS just as i see here on RC.

Allmost - your reef is way cooler than you ever give yourself credit for mate, it's a beautiful display that most here would love to have in their home :beer:

If you buy a wild or maricultured acro and it has color and looks in good condition and is pest free and it dies within weeks or a few months then it is almost certain that you killed it - period. Wild corals appear to be much harder to keep long term than aquacultured corals but anyone seeking to attribute their failures to the actual corals has their hand on it big time.

 

[v1...rotate]

Since I have quickly grown tired of the "look at this pricy rare le frag pack I bought" I was hoping this thread would spark good discussion on wild stuff as well as give people the opportunity to show off their pics of their sweet wild corals. I am glad you guys talked that misunderstanding out . Thanks for chipping in on this thread.

Now lets see some nice pics!

I just have to add... Around here only two stores "consistently" bring in mariculture sps. Only one store has been bringing in nice wild stuff. And when they do its only a couple. So to have a new store open up in my backyard that actually orders a handful of both is nice and refreshing! Also when I say "around here" I mean Maryland, dc, northern and central Virginia and West Virginia. I am curious to see or hear how it is in the other parts of the world or us.
Fyi when a wild colony comes in around here its 200 to 300 bucks and most of the time really pale... Every now and then I get to grab a frag if it doesn't sell.

Great discussion and I thought I'd add my 2cents...

Wild corals are (unfortunately) very common here in Hong Kong and most parts of South East Asia. Personally, I only have experience with wild corals and I have learnt a tremendous amount.

The two most important considerations when buying wild corals are:
1. The coral may carry diseases/pests
2. The colour of the coral in the shop will never remain the same

It took me a little while to the realize/experience the second point however the first point is more important to me! Recognising whether a coral looks healthy or that it might carry a disease is rather difficult to do. You can also get it wrong too. Things I often look for when examining a new coral is the base of the coral, any recession from the base up of the coral, polyp extension (is there any), eggs, thickness of branches, does the coral have any crabs (good or bad)?

I often see other reefers here in Hong Kong get all excited at the arrival of new SPS corals and especially their colours. What most don't realize is that the chance of the coral remaining that colour is nearly zero. The colour is what attracts us to a particular coral and gets us all excited. This is very common with new hobbyists. Through my experiences I now put more emphasis on coral size, shape and its health rather than its colour... Plus buying smaller corals makes it easier to place in the tank and provides enjoyment watching it grow and adapt.

The picture below is a classic example here in Hong Kong of corals that arrive. Shops place corals carefully under lights to give them maximum POP and appeal to the customers. (the colours might look washed out to some but I guarantee they looked awesome!!)


Below is a picture of one of the many arrivals I have been too. Over +100 pieces arrived that evening. Many people arrive to see the selection and prices vary from $50USD to $200USD depending on size.


There is often great debate whether wild corals are worth the trouble, price and the risk. All of which I agree with! I would like the ability to swap/trade corals just like what happens in Europe, US and Australia.

For me, the biggest risk is the introduction of disease/pests into my tank. I have no room for a frag tank or quarantine tank so I have to be extremely careful. For this reason, I have not introduced a new coral into my display tank in over 14months. Why risk it right?
I would love to have a frag tank and encourage the community however I have no room for such a setup. Maybe one day...

Anyways, below is a picture showing that success is possible with wild corals and that they can last more than 5-6months

 

[Piper27]

Thanks for chipping in v1...rotate. Beautiful tank also! I would love to have a store near me that gets that much variety in their acro shipments. Great pics!

 

[Piper27]

Pretty cool to read about how it is in other parts of the world

 

[NeilFox]

Great update V1 Rotate about the Hong Kong scene. Here is how they sell corals here:

They typically sell for between $3 to $15 USD. $15 is the most I have ever spent on anything and my wife thought I was mad!!!

 

[psykobowler]

Keeping sps corals alive both wild/aquacultured is no longer taboo. It makes for a better argument that wild or maricultured corals do not always HOLD there color. In the past I gave away wild corals that I have held for 2+ years because they just browned out. I have a lot that encrusted and grown and healthy but they are browned out. Compare that to the aquacultured corals that I bought from other reefers/growers that were purchased brown to start with because they use 10k halides to grow them out. Literally within weeks they go back to their natural color, blues, purple, green, etc under 400watt radiums. The difference is night and day. JMHO. Also, someone said earlier that named corals sell faster, that is absolutely true. People are familiar with them and they become a "must have" in any reefers' system/collection. If they grow out, you can frag them and get your return on investment easier than a browned out wild coral that you are trying to get to color up. So the response to the original topic, what's the big deal with named corals - they color up and they sell faster for you to recoupe your investment. It is not disrespect to wild corals at all. Just the reality. The good thing about wild corals, you can have you name attached to them when you get them to grow and color up in captivity. Cheers!

 

[Allmost]

Great update V1 Rotate about the Hong Kong scene. Here is how they sell corals here:

They typically sell for between $3 to $15 USD. $15 is the most I have ever spent on anything and my wife thought I was mad!!!

15 bucks for a colony that size !! thats amazing lol Im moving there

 

[Piper27]

Keeping sps corals alive both wild/aquacultured is no longer taboo. It makes for a better argument that wild or maricultured corals do not always HOLD there color. In the past I gave away wild corals that I have held for 2+ years because they just browned out. I have a lot that encrusted and grown and healthy but they are browned out. Compare that to the aquacultured corals that I bought from other reefers/growers that were purchased brown to start with because they use 10k halides to grow them out. Literally within weeks they go back to their natural color, blues, purple, green, etc under 400watt radiums. The difference is night and day. JMHO. Also, someone said earlier that named corals sell faster, that is absolutely true. People are familiar with them and they become a "must have" in any reefers' system/collection. If they grow out, you can frag them and get your return on investment easier than a browned out wild coral that you are trying to get to color up. So the response to the original topic, what's the big deal with named corals - they color up and they sell faster for you to recoupe your investment. It is not disrespect to wild corals at all. Just the reality. The good thing about wild corals, you can have you name attached to them when you get them to grow and color up in captivity. Cheers!

They were brown because of 10k halides?

I do see how some people look at their corals as an investment.

 

[BigKahuna]

Also, someone said earlier that named corals sell faster, that is absolutely true. People are familiar with them and they become a "must have" in any reefers' system/collection. If they grow out, you can frag them and get your return on investment easier than a browned out wild coral that you are trying to get to color up. So the response to the original topic, what's the big deal with named corals - they color up and they sell faster for you to recoupe your investment. It is not disrespect to wild corals at all. Just the reality. The good thing about wild corals, you can have you name attached to them when you get them to grow and color up in captivity. Cheers!

While I agree mostly that wild colonies are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get eventually, there is the fact that if you buy a known proven aqua-cultured coral and it dies on you it's probably you and with wild stuff it might actually never have been a colony that was gonna make it to begin with. Also when for example you buy a SSC frag you can ask here what flow and placement makes it most happy. The wild stuff your guess is as good as mine so it makes it a bit tougher to deal with.

 

[Piper27]

Here is my favorite, grew it from a frag. Not fair to want pics posted and not show one of mine is it? For me it is really hard to keep the neon blues. The pink polyps and neon green base stay, but if i move it or frag a few spots it takes a while to color back up to the neon blue tips. I am still trying to get its color back so this old pic will have to do. The pink polyps are not out because I just fragged it for the first time in this pic. It actually took about two years to get any blue in this piece. (Sorry about the iPhone pic it's the only good shot I have got so far.

So I would have to say wild stuff is much more "touchy" compared to tank raised corals, if I had to compare the two. And even then it's not always the case, from my limited experience

 

[psykobowler]

They were brown because of 10k halides?

I do see how some people look at their corals as an investment.

Yes, they are brown because coral farmers use 10k to grow their corals then use 20k to color them up. A quick example is the sps that I purchased locally from thecoralgarden.org They were all captive grown, healthy and hardy. They were grow under 10k and you don't see much color from the sps pictures. They are like that when you purchase them but put them in a tank like mine with 4x400watt radiums, 8x54watt t5 ati blue + and 4x110watt vho super actinic and they color back up to their expected color.

If I want to sell an oregon tort or a hawkins enchinata people would not think twice about not buying the coral that they already know about. Ironically, I can't name half of the corals I already purchased. I don't consider fish and equipment as investments but the only real return on investment i consider is through selling corals.

 

[psykobowler]

While I agree mostly that wild colonies are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get eventually, there is the fact that if you buy a known proven aqua-cultured coral and it dies on you it's probably you and with wild stuff it might actually never have been a colony that was gonna make it to begin with. Also when for example you buy a SSC frag you can ask here what flow and placement makes it most happy. The wild stuff your guess is as good as mine so it makes it a bit tougher to deal with.

If I buy known proven aqua-cultured coral and it dies on me, I should not be reefing. Wild colonies are more of a gamble but I still have a few of them in my tank.

 

[NeilFox]

Here is my favorite, grew it from a frag. Not fair to want pics posted and not show one of mine is it? For me it is really hard to keep the neon blues. The pink polyps and neon green base stay, but if i move it or frag a few spots it takes a while to color back up to the neon blue tips. I am still trying to get its color back so this old pic will have to do. The pink polyps are not out because I just fragged it for the first time in this pic. It actually took about two years to get any blue in this piece. (Sorry about the iPhone pic it's the only good shot I have got so far.

So I would have to say wild stuff is much more "touchy" compared to tank raised corals, if I had to compare the two. And even then it's not always the case, from my limited experience

Nice color on this mother, Piper. I think a few more pics are in order.

 

[Piper27]

The only other decent pic I have right now is this one, which is also an iphone pic unfortunatly. The pink polyps are out but the white spots in this pic are actually bright sky blue, my iPhone wouldn't capture that for some reason. I can't wait til it colors back up so I can take some macros with our new camera

Pretty sure I was still running 10k's when this pic was taken fwiw.

 

[Piper27]

Here are the "time line" pictures of the coral I posted above, going in order from my first post being the most recent. These pictures are from a while back when it started to finally grow into a decent colony, and some were probly taken when I had redbugs and aefw. This just shows how long it took for this coral to get the nice colors it has in it.
On a side note if anyone has a guess at what type of acro this is, shoot.

 

[sanchoy]

Here is my 3 cents:

Aquaculture has better survival.
Aquaculture retains color
Aquaculture are more expensive, however resale value is more rewarding.

My biggest annoyance is when stores chop up wilds and give them bogus names!!!!

 

[jda]

Is that a wild Miagi Tort? Just curious, but have you become a better, more aware, reefer over the time sequence, or was it just the coral needing time? That is a good looking coral.

Didn't all limited edition corals start as chopped up wild colonies that were given bogus names?

 

[M88A2]

honestly the thing i like most about "named corals" are that I like to know what the corals look like (or are supposed to) so that i can layout the tank in terms of colors and I know when the corals are happy/healthy. resell-ability is really only a secondary benefit for me and profit making is non existent as all money i make from reselling frags goes to more reef related stuff. but i totally see the point of many people with regards to naming things getting out of control

 

[BrentH]

Lookin good biggles .... I would think it would be acro heaven down there .... Tanks nice .... I'm also the same way like to put pieces of same coral in different spots .... To see how it acts