when to add the cleanup crew

[chilihedkc]

I have a new tank. 75 gal with a 55 gal sump. I have 120 lbs live rock that is nearly done curing. At what point should I add the clean up crew? Bunch of snails, hermits, a cuke, couple of shrimps are on the list. Right now the Ammonia has fallen to zero, and Nitrate is on it's way down.

 

[Fizz71]

Down to what? Nitrite is 0 too right?

..but it sounds to me like you're ready for a cleanup crew. Just keep in mind that you may need to "feed" the tank now too so they don't starve.

Make sure you acclimate REAL slow too. Inverts can be touchy.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

as long as you saw the ammonia rise and fall then you may add a CUC. anytime after 0 amm is fine

 

[Henry Bowman]

It's time to add the crew. As stated before, acclimate slowly. Make sure pH is stable. Changes in pH are very hard on snails.

 

[chilihedkc]

PH is stable at 8.2 ish. I could acclimate using a dosing pump into a 5 gallon bucked over the course of an evening. I have the aqua medic sp3000. Is that going to be slow enough? Nitrate is still on the high side, so I haven't bothered to test for the Nitrite yet.

 

[Michael]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14844900#post14844900 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sisterlimonpot
as long as you saw the ammonia rise and fall then you may add a CUC. anytime after 0 amm is fine

yep +1, however to add to this id suggest a 20-25% water change after the ammonia and nitrite are 0 to dilute the nitrate formed, then get the cuc in

 

[chilihedkc]

I must have tested backwards. I thought the cycle was Ammonia to Nitrate to Nitrite. Am I a buffoon?

 

[Michael]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14844974#post14844974 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chilihedkc
I must have tested backwards. I thought the cycle was Ammonia to Nitrate to Nitrite. Am I a buffoon?

no not at all, just a newcommer, basically ammonia and nitrite rise and fall and nitrate rises and doesnt fall, well not much anyhow, usually this is the case, however sometimes ammonia and nitrite never get seen if the rock is cured, all systems vary but my suggestion is typical not a certainty

 

[KarlBob]

When you go to buy the crew, start small. Don't get all the snails and crabs today that you think you'll need six months from now. I'd start with maybe one-third to one-half of your total crew today, then you can add more later as you add waste producers (like fish).

Also, keep in mind that some CUC suppliers exaggerate the number of snails and crabs per gallon that a tank needs. It's better to start a little low and add animals later than to start with too many and have some of them starve.

Edit: You might want to read a few RC threads about cucumbers before you buy one. Some people swear by them, but others would never purchase one.

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845030#post14845030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Michael
no not at all, just a newcommer, basically ammonia and nitrite rise and fall and nitrate rises and doesnt fall, well not much anyhow, usually this is the case, however sometimes ammonia and nitrite never get seen if the rock is cured, all systems vary but my suggestion is typical not a certainty

+1 on that.

If you haven't been testing nitrite then you probably missed it. And don't expect the Nitrate to come down too much on it's own....water changes do that. A well extablished DSB and some macro will do a good job of maintaining Nitrate and do some reduction as well, but I'd change some waterour and start getting a cleanup crew in there to keep things moving.

The algae bloom will be next.

 

[chilihedkc]

Thanks! I thought one hermit and one snail per gallon was a bit high. Based on my system what would you recommend for a starting clean up crew?

 

[thegrun]

I'd start with about 25 small snails (mixed varieties), 20 hermits and work up from there.

 

[chilihedkc]

<-----patiently awaiting algae bloom. I have been using ro/di water for what it's worth.

 

[Michael]

im certainely not looking to disagree with anyone here, however in my opinion with a 75 id suggest 12 snails to start, then add more when the system needs more

 

[KarlBob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845144#post14845144 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fizz71
The algae bloom will be next.

There may be a smiley, but Fizz71 is not kidding about algae. Lots of newcomers get very upset when their pristine tanks are suddenly overrun with algae. We're running small ecosystems, and they have to balance just like the big ones outside.

When we start a new tank, it's like bare rock on a hillside. The first things to colonize bare rock aren't flowers, but lichens. The first things to colonize your tank will be annoying algae (and bacteria). Eventually, the ecosystem of a hill settles out, the rock is broken down, and you see dirt and flowers. In your tank, you'll eventually reach a (somewhat) stable balance. You just have to put up with the pioneer species as they arrive, and wait for the next waves to overpower them in turn.

It usually takes at least six months, but sometimes it can take as long as a year before your algae and bacteria populations reach a stable zone. In the meantime, pull out hair algae when it gets annoying, blow cyanobacteria off the sandbed occasionally with a turkey baster, and enjoy the show.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

good analogy

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845214#post14845214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
There may be a smiley, but Fizz71 is not kidding about algae.

Correct...I was not! I call it "aging" your tank. Everybody talks about cycling but then panics when the algae starts to grow. It's all part of tha aging process until the nutrients in your tank level out, hence the need for a clean up crew.

Not only do they eat some of it, but they also stir things up to clean it. That's one of the reason I like nassarius snails, they do a great job stiirring up the sandbed, eating detrius, and can outrun the crabs that will occasionally kill a snail for its shell.

And 1 snail per gallon is just silly IMO...and ironicly enough a recent topic in ReefKeeping mag: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php
..waterkeeper will be along any minute now.

BTW...I like nassarius, cerith and trochus snails...scarlet and red hermits...black and tigertail cucs. I have everything but a tigertail in my tank now. I also have some other snails (blue for one) but I have 240g to play with so I bought some for looks.

 

[KarlBob]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845408#post14845408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fizz71
BTW...I like nassarius, cerith and trochus snails...scarlet and red hermits...black and tigertail cucs. I have everything but a tigertail in my tank now. I also have some other snails (blue for one) but I have 240g to play with so I bought some for looks.

I'm a big nassarius fan, too. I also like the redstripe variety of trochus snails. They're hard to find sometimes, but they seem to live a lot longer in my tanks than the non-striped trochus snails.

I'm not a fan of cucumbers, but I've never had one, so I don't have first-hand experience to back up my opinion.

My hermit crabs are the blueleg type, and I'm mostly happy with them. I've probably lost a few snails when the crabs wanted new shells, but I suspect all hermit crabs do that sometimes.

A brittle star can be a cool addition to your cleanup crew, too. Just watch out for the green ones with smooth arms (often called serpent stars). They have a bad reputation as fish eaters. Again, this is pure rumor, not first-hand knowledge. My brittle star is black and has big spines all over its arms. I think it's a cool critter, and I like to watch it search for food.

 

[LockeOak]

Very important: don't add the entire group of inverts at once. They'll gorge themselves, eat everything then starve. Add a small crew (maybe half) then add more later as needed.

Agreed with the posts above. Ceriths and Trochus are both good, Nassarius is great if you have a sand bed (don't need many), scarlet hermits are model citizens while blues have a bit more personality. A few Nerites will do a good job on the glass. Don't even bother with Astraea, they don't last long in most tanks. I don't think I've ever seen any hit the one year mark, most don't make it 6 months.

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14845546#post14845546 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
I'm not a fan of cucumbers, but I've never had one, so I don't have first-hand experience to back up my opinion.

I have a black cuke in my tank and he's just so cool to watch. Eating dirty sand, and pooping clean sand all day long. I've read the blacks and the tigertails are good at not nuking your tank if they die, unlike some cukes since let's face it...they are what they eat...which is crap.

I have some brittle starts too. A black that was damaged by the LFS slowly coming back to life and a tiger (Ophiocoma sp.) but you just don't see them that often. I also LOVE my cleaner shrimp..very active...and the fire shrimp is coming along but he likes to hide.

To the OP: Like others have said before...just start adding slowly and build your crew up. You'll be ready for fish soon too..actually if your nitrites are 0 and the nitrates are under 30 you could probably start with a damsel or clownfish now if you have one on your fish-list.