Funny, I've noticed that all my zoanthus spp. and all other zoanhids I keep respond to food. I don't squirt on them but let the food drop and they close, embracing the food particles. When they open it's gone. They ingest, digest and poop them out.
Perhaps I'm really lucky!?!?!?!?
They do benefit from it or I wouldn't waste my precious time doing it.
I wonder who told you all that, my friend. Please tell me with all the respect.
It's certainly possible that all of the zoanthus you have will exhibit prey capture, but it's not the norm for a majority of the zoanthids I've come across in my 25+ years in the hobby. There are peer reviewed studies that show the highly autotrophic nature of some zoanthus species, but their feeding practices are quite varied, so it's often hard to say. I'm not saying you're doing this, but people in general need to realize the difference a polyp closing during target feeding and it actually ingesting and digesting food. Also people need to understand that ingestion doesn't always man digestion is taking place.
I never bought any zoanthids in my live. All our inverts here have to come from Hawaiian waters with the right collecting permit, so I don't know if Zoanthus spp. from other places like the Atlantic or South Pacific would act like mine when fed, but I would think that at least some would. I've posted about that before in another thread.
Yes, the only reason I say they ingest and digest my target feeding is because of the consequential new growth and better coloration after I've tried. By saying that I mean the reflective pigments too, not only what we would say zooxanthellae population (brown or darker coloration). I didn't change anything else when I was trying the feeding processes, besides food types and sizes. Well and also because of the simple fact that they close with the food inside and when they open it's gone.
One very important thing to keep in mind is that most of the scientific studies we see were done with specimens collected from the wild and I know only one study done in lab with artificial coral foods. That shows the relationship about concentration of food per space and polyps capture abilities, so... Yes, too many things to consider, like the differences of dissolved organics between the wild waters and our very nice clean skimmed tanks (organic absorption), etc... The contents of the food is a must IMO too.
I'm sorry but my photography skills aren't as good as I wish. Besides, you guys have much better zoanthids to show off then I do. Why do you want/need to see mine? I don't need to proof anything here anyway, Peter! Even broadcast feeding will show you how different your zoanthids will be. Target feeding is better yet.
I've been in this hobby too think that zoanthids need any type of feeding of any type. Again, highly autotrophic and I've seen them multiply rapidly in too many starved tanks to believe otherwise. I'm certainly not advocating this and I now feed my tanks heavily thanks to the advances in protein skimmers. However, one should keep in mind that most of the smaller zoanthus species polyps don't even possess the type of nematocysts capable of capturing even small prey. They're also not filter feeders like some make them out to be. While unfortunately we're lacking a lot of information when it comes to zoanthus, there are many signs that point to zoanthids as not needing and perhaps not even benefiting from any type of direct feeding.
Well, in regards to those "starving tanks" The only thing I remember is that when I had my 2 X 250W halides over the 55gal the zoanthids were growing very nice and fast!!! I didn't feed them! I remember one time when we had people with 1 or 2 X 400W halides over 55 and 75gal. tanks, remember? I do believe that would do the trick. Today that would be called overkill and crazy. See, it's not only the food particles that gives the energy the zoanthids need, but the light and the absorption capabilities they have, so that could help explain some of that. Now I have a nice T5 fixture and a much better skimmer. I've noticed that in nature zoanthids are not found necessarily in high nutrient waters. Although they can be found largely in some high nutrient waters also. The algae problems we have in our systems comes from the DON and light mostly, so we decided that the "cleaner" the water is the better. Low nutrients are great for zoanthids in closed systems because they show better forms and colors. That's when target feeding comes in IMO.
I would imagine that in nature the corse of things are different than in a closed system. That said, yes, the smaller Zoanthus spp. (very tiny ones) do not have the same ability of the more robust species nor their nematocysts capabilities to actually grab the food particles and ingest. Another very important thing to keep in mind is that in the ocean there is no way to turn off the water motion unless the polyps are in a tide pool, what would make just impossible for the little ones to actually feed on particles. And that's a true statement, period. Most of the time I see the tiny zoasnthus spp. in very low water movement areas where the deposit of detritus, mud and other small particles fall over them. Now, that's good info!!! So I know... But, there are probably a higher absorption ability for those tiny Zoanthus spp. also and I really can't explain how it works, but I know they actually swallow the small particles I offer and there is more growth/reproduction rate. Keep in mind I feed them after I turn pumps off. I would guess they have the ability to swallow only if the opportunity is give with the right size food and that's what's happening here. Or perhaps they are really absorbing the organics added to the water, like many prefer to believe. But they swallow the food... I really appreciate the people in this forum who told me about the foods they've tried. I'me very fortunate to be able to purchase such quality foods.
Yes, I agree with the fact we have too little info about zoanthids, of course. The evidences out there, specially from the scientific papers, do tell us that they probably don't need and don't get any benefit from any type of direct feeding. I can't deny that after reading some of the papers I did.
Too bad! My experiences in captivity shows me the very opposite. Again, their experiences were done with specimens collected from the wild, opening guts and finding one particle here and another there. In the wild, where there is probably not the same concentration of the target feeding I'm offering and it is in another hand compensated by the much higher DON present in the natural waters(?) Also the sunlight is much, much stronger than my weak 6 bulb high par bulbs ATI fixture (simply the best T5 fixture available today IMO!!). I should bring here that I do have a tremendous respect for those scientists and their great work.
Also, due to your locale and the import restrictions I thought there was a chance that you might have actual palythoa unlike most in this forum that just throw the "paly" name on any zoanthud species that larger in size.
Sadly, for how bad the hobby is with calling things by what genus they might actually be, the scientific world and taxonomy of zoanthids is even more messy.
Yes, agreed! lets not talk about those cartoon names!!! Much messier than say 15+ years ago!!! I do have four different colors of P. caesia and one more that I don't really know if it's P. caesia, because the tentacles look much different and smaller. They all eat very much and look very nice after I began to feed them once a week.
No I'm not wasting my precious time, no. Who told you that zoanthus spp. do not benefit from target feeding? Please tell me, would you? Have you at least tried for yourself? Try first and bring your results for us. If you do the right way you should be fine and see results in about a week or two.
I've tried quite a bit in this hobby... Many years ago I owned my own fish food company and extensively studied and experimented with coral and fish nutrition. Everything from actual food types to what size foods are accepted by various corals. Improper understanding of what corals to feed and what to feed them is something that has plagued this hobby for decades. People feeding their corals phytoplankton and various liquid foods with silly names and unknown content all the way on up to feeding them large chunks of food simply because they will ingest them is evidence of this.
Yes. I don't feed phytoplankton nor chunks of food. I do believe in the proper way of feeding and to respect the nutrient balance of the system. I don't believe in overfeeding also. I target feed once a week and found that's more tan enough. I believe that the zoanthids need time to process the food and release feces before they are able to repeat the process in order. I still don't know exactly how long They take to process the food I offer, but a week is working very nice for me.
Would be so great if you could write some lines about what you have found out with your researches on coral/zoanthids feeding, please.
Any feeding add organics to our systems. That's not new. I think you should study more about coral and zoanthid's feeding behaviors or at least try on your own, so you can come here and leave your true experiences for us.
I don't mean to be rude, but sincerely telling you with words.
See above... Also, simply adding organics is not necessarily feeding your corals.
Yes, that's the main problem with liquid foods. The solid dry proper sized coral foods I've tried have giving me much better results than liquid foods with a broadcast feeding I used to do in the past. Target feeding is what drives the food to the right place IMO. Skimmer is a must!
I thank you very much for all you've wrote. I really appreciate!!! Wish more would take time to write their thoughts and why.
I've heard many times all that you brought up here, but still would like to understand where people got those types of info from. Books? Web? Papers?
Either I'm lying or I'm going crazy, right? Perhaps dreaming? LOL!!!:thumbsup:
Debate is healthy, and there's not enough intellient diagreements on these forums anymore. Most of the people I knew with with scientific backgrounds, or at least a great interest in the science behind our hobby, won't come near forums anymore. Quite frankly I can't blame them given some of the directions it has taken in the last decade.
Yep! I know. I think that happened because the number of people is much higher now and also because of so many disagreements. The serious hobbyists and scientists don't have time to explain over and over those explanations. Too many people... They prefer to write articles and books. I would do the same.
I appreciate your time writing the content and your experience with the research about coral food. Please feel free to add more to the thread!!! I'm open to learn and to try new things if that would make my tank look better.
If you would like to write another text with your experiences in regards to coral feeding and zoanthids' feeding behavior/ideal food would be well appreciated.
There is so much to zoanthids' keeping and I see target feeding just as a complement to the optimal health and to somehow help their metabolism in our systems.:thumbsup:
Thanks again,
Grandis.
