When to feed zoas

[organism]

I believe that many of the people who say they don't feed and have that "great" growth didn't even try to feed for a significative period of time and check if their growth would be even greater!! But, most of the time they are actually happy with the growth, which is fine.

I tried it for a while with zoanthids, was about even on growth but I had to change my water out more often, and I tended to have better color with not feeding. The thing is zooxanthellae algae is what makes corals look brown, and when you have really clean water you have a lot less of it in your corals which gives better coloration. Going ULN with vodka I'm seeing some insane colors on my zoanthids these days, I still feed my corals and palys but just not good returns when feeding zoanthids imo. Everyone's system works differently though, that's the awesome part about reefing

 

[Nanofreak79]

My pleasure, Nanofreak79!!
I prefer to offer dry coral foods, like Reef Roids, Coral Frenzy, Fauna Marin, etc. I don't use liquid invert foods anymore for years as the main source of food for my inverts. Some times I do add some Microvore (Brightwell's), but it is not all the time.

Other additives I use are for coralline algae (calcium and alkalinity): Reef Complete and buffer. For the zoanthids I've tried many supplements in the past and today I add, broadcasting, only vitamins and amino acids (Brightwell's), plus the foods. I believe in the moderate addition of iodide supplements and use the seachem's brand for that. The salt I use today is the Red Sea. It does a good job. Stick with the things that works better for you!!

Grandis.

Thank you, I'm interested in some things you mentioned.

 

[A. Grandis]

Simply squirting some food on something and having is close up doesn't mean that it's actually eating or benefiting from the practice. The fact remains that many of the popular zoanthids in the hobby don't exhibit true prey capture and therefore will not benefit from target feeding or even broadcast feeding.

Funny, I've noticed that all my zoanthus spp. and all other zoanhids I keep respond to food. I don't squirt on them but let the food drop and they close, embracing the food particles. When they open it's gone. They ingest, digest and poop them out. Perhaps I'm really lucky!?!?!?!?
They do benefit from it or I wouldn't waste my precious time doing it.
I wonder who told you all that, my friend. Please tell me with all the respect.

Palythoas will benefit from target feeding, but I haven't seen anyone with true palythoas in a reef tank or even posted on this forum in years. Can we see yours?

I'm sorry but my photography skills aren't as good as I wish. Besides, you guys have much better zoanthids to show off then I do. Why do you want/need to see mine? I don't need to proof anything here anyway, Peter! Even broadcast feeding will show you how different your zoanthids will be. Target feeding is better yet.

Protopalythoas will benefit. However, most of the smaller zoanthus species will not benefit directly from target feeding and you're just wasting your time.

No I'm not wasting my precious time, no. Who told you that zoanthus spp. do not benefit from target feeding? Please tell me, would you? Have you at least tried for yourself? Try first and bring your results for us. If you do the right way you should be fine and see results in about a week or two.

The extra feeding could be adding dissolved organic content to the water column which may be benefiting zoanthidsd with no prety capture, but if that's your goal you're better off feeding fish or something known to capture pretty more and not squirting food on some highly autotrophic zoanthids.

Any feeding add organics to our systems. That's not new. I think you should study more about coral and zoanthid's feeding behaviors or at least try on your own, so you can come here and leave your true experiences for us.
I don't mean to be rude, but sincerely telling you with words.

I thank you very much for all you've wrote. I really appreciate!!! Wish more would take time to write their thoughts and why.
I've heard many times all that you brought up here, but still would like to understand where people got those types of info from. Books? Web? Papers?

Either I'm lying or I'm going crazy, right? Perhaps dreaming? LOL!!!:thumbsup:

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Thank you, I'm interested in some things you mentioned.

No problem nanofreak79!
Here are links in case you would like to read more...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2167572

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2180156

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

I tried it for a while with zoanthids, was about even on growth but I had to change my water out more often, and I tended to have better color with not feeding. The thing is zooxanthellae algae is what makes corals look brown, and when you have really clean water you have a lot less of it in your corals which gives better coloration. Going ULN with vodka I'm seeing some insane colors on my zoanthids these days, I still feed my corals and palys but just not good returns when feeding zoanthids imo. Everyone's system works differently though, that's the awesome part about reefing

Yes, well, here I can only get good results with colors and reproduction/growth on my zoanthids if I target feed them. There is an interesting aspect of vodka that covers lots of the zoas' necessities for their metabolism, I believe. The higher quantities of bacteria ingested by the zoas with the proper and constant use of vodka in the system would give very good results for many. I didn't try vodka yet to see how it works, but my feeding is like 3 to 4 times a month, so the system is very clean and the polyps are going better with target food. I wouldn't change if your zoas are doing very good that way. I think there is a balance for that to happen, because some people didn't get such results with the vodka too.

Yes I'm not here to sell my ideas nor try to impose. There are many, many ways to keep a balanced reef tank with the polyps we like!!:thumbsup:
And for those who are happy not feeding, hey, just be happy.
Some people feed their zoas because they do better. If they don't want to feed and are happy with their growth, let it be! All that matters is to have the polyps in good shape and colorful, right?

I just can't agree with the philosophy of dirty water and zoanthus that wouldn't grab food because I've tried and it works great for me.

Cheers, my friend!!:beer:

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Some anecdotal experience -- I recently set up a new tank and bought some live rock with many zoa's -- I've been slowly piecing together a hood/better combo lights, but for the last couple of weeks, they have been under only a standard 20g florescent bulb -- not even sure of the watts but low intensity.

I've noticed the zoa's definitely close in on flake food but seem to still be growing despite the poor lighting conditions. (noticed new polyps) Obv not recommending anyone try to intentionally starve their zoa's but I will continue to feed when I get my new lights set up this week and see if they continue a feeding response.

Your observations of low light is because zoanthus spp., as well as all other zoanthids, will show better feeding responses at night. Therefore, with the low intense light you've got would trig them somehow.
Many people prefer to feed their zoanthids at night. I feed them during the day and they still react positively to the target feeding.
If you change for the right food particle they will really take off!!! Many flakes won't give them the same nutrients as those quality coral foods we know of. My zoanthus spp. also grab the flakes when I feed my fishes.

Please pay attention to the change of light when you do, so they can adapt very slowly to the stronger one when you finish your new hood.

Thanks for sharing!

Grandis.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

I bought some reef chili to feed mine. I've never fed them before and have had them for about 2 months. Do I just mix it up in the bottle and squirt some at the zoanthids after turning off the flow? How long does that stuff last in the bottle?

 

[Nanofreak79]

I bought some reef chili to feed mine. I've never fed them before and have had them for about 2 months. Do I just mix it up in the bottle and squirt some at the zoanthids after turning off the flow? How long does that stuff last in the bottle?

You can use a tool similar to a turkey baster or the kent sea squirt to target feed. I broadcast feed my tank by turning off my skimmer and lowering my vortech pump for an hour or so. A little goes along way though, I use a few scoops in a tigger pod bottle and a little tank water. I let the mix sit for a few minutes and then squirt into direct flow of the pump. As far as keeping it for a period of time I wouldn't. I would mix what you need and use that up. I suppose you could keep the leftover in the fridge for a few days if you wanted.

 

[teknik777]

I feed 10-15 min before the lights go out. I dont really target feed I turn off my pumps and leave the vortech mp40 on at that time of light it is really low intensity. I feed cyclopeeze, fuel, and reef chili. Leave the pumps off for 30 plus min.

 

[A. Grandis]

I bought some reef chili to feed mine. I've never fed them before and have had them for about 2 months. Do I just mix it up in the bottle and squirt some at the zoanthids after turning off the flow? How long does that stuff last in the bottle?

Turn off the pumps and the skimmer, if you want. You don't need to squirt on them! Actually you shouldn't squirt because they will retract when you do that. Put the ReefChili in a small container (about 1oz.) with tank water and mix it well. Let it rehydrate for about a minute or two to begin the target feeding. Using a dropper, just let the particles fall on the zoanthids, including Zoanthus spp. They will grab the particles, ingest and digest them. Once a week is enough. Mix only the amount you'll use. Do not overfeed!!! The polyps can take only so much of the food. They'll get only the amount they grab on the first attempt. They respond better when you feed the at night. Don't forget to turn on the pumps and skimmer when you finish.
Have fun!!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

I feed 10-15 min before the lights go out. I dont really target feed I turn off my pumps and leave the vortech mp40 on at that time of light it is really low intensity. I feed cyclopeeze, fuel, and reef chili. Leave the pumps off for 30 plus min.

Have you noticed any improvement in growth, color, polyp extension and reproduction, in comparison to when you didn't fed them?

Grandis.

 

[organism]

Yes I'm not here to sell my ideas nor try to impose. There are many, many ways to keep a balanced reef tank with the polyps we like!!:thumbsup:
And for those who are happy not feeding, hey, just be happy.
Some people feed their zoas because they do better. If they don't want to feed and are happy with their growth, let it be! All that matters is to have the polyps in good shape and colorful, right?

That's the awesome thing about reef tanks, everyone's is different they all work differently, so it's always great to hear what works in other people's systems that I might add to my own

 

[reefwars]

figured ill share my feeding routine , i have kept zoanthids for 10yrs+ and over the past 5-6yrs have gone extensively into propogating/collecting and learning what makes zoanthids grow and thrieve.



some of my colonies grow as much as a couple dozen polyps a month, this is no joke , with the right foods and filtration on your system you will notice it yourself.

i have estimated around 150 different zoanthids , some fast growers and some not as fast , but imo all benefit from the feedings.


my feedings are large, maybe more than most feel comfortable with but ive gotten to this point slowly and alot of trial and error on what works.


heres the food:


besides a blend of fresh seafood which i only feed on occasion or to my nps corals i feed about 2l of this mix a week.


fauna marin ultra clam - 1 tbl spoon
fauna marin min f - 1/2 tbl spoon
nls reef micro feeder - 2 tbl spoon
freeze dried cyclopeeze - 1 tbl spoon




this gets mixed into a 2l feeding jug and target fed several times a day over a week.



i also feed a decent sized chunk of mysis or pacifica plankton everyday, this is mainly for the lps but they also get the left over juices.


i do not feed my fish, they get whats left over or floating around.





in order to feed so much i run on a 100g grow system

2 skimmers....one for 200g and the other for 450
an algae turf scrubber
large amounts of gfo
mature and porous healthy liverock
a dozen kinds of macro algae in the refugium system




also i vitamin c dose around 1000 mg a day and dip all colonies once a week in coral rx.



livestock in a zoanthid growout tank is very nil , just somegurad dogs(wrasses) to keep away pests.

 

[A. Grandis]

Reefwars:

I've never tried the foods you feed your polyps! Not even the cyclopeeze. I'll put them in my list!
Have you noticed any of your Zoanthus spp. actually grabbing the food you offer them? Do they ingest it? Digest? Do you see them pooping too?

Could you please explain more to us about what you refer as the "right food"?

Would be interesting to hear about the lights you have over them also.

This is the first time I've heard about a "monster feeding regimen" for zoas. Please let us know more details and when did you notice any changes. Please tell us about colors, polyp size and so on...

Prepare yourself 'cause people like to see pictures around here...

I'm beginning to think that I'm not going crazy. I already know that I'm not lying.
Thanks for sharing!

Grandis.

 

[Friday Night]

Keeping consistent water parameters is the best "feeding" method

 

[reefwars]

Reefwars:

I've never tried the foods you feed your polyps! Not even the cyclopeeze. I'll put them in my list!
Have you noticed any of your Zoanthus spp. actually grabbing the food you offer them? Do they ingest it? Digest? Do you see them pooping too?

Could you please explain more to us about what you refer as the "right food"?

Would be interesting to hear about the lights you have over them also.

This is the first time I've heard about a "monster feeding regimen" for zoas. Please let us know more details and when did you notice any changes. Please tell us about colors, polyp size and so on...

Prepare yourself 'cause people like to see pictures around here...

I'm beginning to think that I'm not going crazy. I already know that I'm not lying.
Thanks for sharing!

Grandis.

for some of them you dont or wont see any response from feeding , even when tried during the night, i dont think this means they dont eat i think its more of what size particulte food they use.

if people are wanting to feed mysis i doubt the zoanthids get anything from it but whats in the juices(i use the juices for my nps corals), smaller foods are more suitable.

like you mentioned there is small give aways that they eat like reguarily expelling food or waste.





for lighting i use a few different types on a few set ups, my best does under a 250w halide but the radions are promiing just to new to me yet to tell anything about growth.


really ive had success with all type of lights down to t8's but halides are how i normally go.


some of my fastest growing colonies are within 4-6" of a 250w halide bulb at 20000k while heavily fed, these colonies are trimmed as needed.

fauna marin is a great product and will bring amazing growth and color to just about any corals , great products.

the cyclopeeze is more for the palythoas and nps corals i have.

 

[reefwars]

Keeping consistent water parameters is the best "feeding" method

tell that to my gorgs

 

[A. Grandis]

Keeping consistent water parameters is the best "feeding" method

Hey Friday,
To feed is to actually add food particles to the system as energy, besides the basics.
The good consistent params are therefore part of the basics, like the light and even the partial water changes, skimmer, etc...
We're talking about giving that extra boost to the zoas in captivity.

I know already you think like that and that's more than fine.

Like I've posted before, I'm not here to impose the feeding habit but to learn from others about their feeding procedures and what they use.
In my case I didn't get my zoas to actually thrive until I decided to feed them. That's why I'm crazy about it. :thumbsup:

Yeah, good to have you here.

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

for some of them you dont or wont see any response from feeding , even when tried during the night, i dont think this means they dont eat i think its more of what size particulte food they use.

if people are wanting to feed mysis i doubt the zoanthids get anything from it but whats in the juices(i use the juices for my nps corals), smaller foods are more suitable.

like you mentioned there is small give aways that they eat like reguarily expelling food or waste.





for lighting i use a few different types on a few set ups, my best does under a 250w halide but the radions are promiing just to new to me yet to tell anything about growth.


really ive had success with all type of lights down to t8's but halides are how i normally go.


some of my fastest growing colonies are within 4-6" of a 250w halide bulb at 20000k while heavily fed, these colonies are trimmed as needed.

fauna marin is a great product and will bring amazing growth and color to just about any corals , great products.

the cyclopeeze is more for the palythoas and nps corals i have.

I do use the Fauna Marin pellets though and they love it. Yes, the colors are amazing after you feed them Fauna Marin. The bigger zoas eat the pellets, besides the Palythoas and Protopalythoas, not the small Zoanthus spp.
For the small Zoanthus spp. I offer Reef Roids and Coral Frenzy. They LOVE IT!!
Some smaller Zoanthus spp. I have would have to take their time in order to close with the food, specially the tiny ones, but with the proper size particles they do...
The improvement in growth and reproduction is obvious after two weeks feeding them.

I had a tremendous success with 250W halides in the past!! The zoanthids love halides, but here is way too hot and the electricity goes too high with the need of the chiller too, so I chose to change for the T5s. They do great also and it's al good, but yes, the halides makes a difference, I know. WhenI had halides I didn't feed them, like today. That was long time ago.

I used to feed cyclopeeze to small fishes in the past, not zoanthids.

Thanks for the feedback!

Grandis.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Funny, I've noticed that all my zoanthus spp. and all other zoanhids I keep respond to food. I don't squirt on them but let the food drop and they close, embracing the food particles. When they open it's gone. They ingest, digest and poop them out. Perhaps I'm really lucky!?!?!?!?
They do benefit from it or I wouldn't waste my precious time doing it.
I wonder who told you all that, my friend. Please tell me with all the respect.

It's certainly possible that all of the zoanthus you have will exhibit prey capture, but it's not the norm for a majority of the zoanthids I've come across in my 25+ years in the hobby. There are peer reviewed studies that show the highly autotrophic nature of some zoanthus species, but their feeding practices are quite varied, so it's often hard to say. I'm not saying you're doing this, but people in general need to realize the difference a polyp closing during target feeding and it actually ingesting and digesting food. Also people need to understand that ingestion doesn't always man digestion is taking place.


I'm sorry but my photography skills aren't as good as I wish. Besides, you guys have much better zoanthids to show off then I do. Why do you want/need to see mine? I don't need to proof anything here anyway, Peter! Even broadcast feeding will show you how different your zoanthids will be. Target feeding is better yet.

I've been in this hobby too think that zoanthids need any type of feeding of any type. Again, highly autotrophic and I've seen them multiply rapidly in too many starved tanks to believe otherwise. I'm certainly not advocating this and I now feed my tanks heavily thanks to the advances in protein skimmers. However, one should keep in mind that most of the smaller zoanthus species polyps don't even possess the type of nematocysts capable of capturing even small prey. They're also not filter feeders like some make them out to be. While unfortunately we're lacking a lot of information when it comes to zoanthus, there are many signs that point to zoanthids as not needing and perhaps not even benefiting from any type of direct feeding.

Also, due to your locale and the import restrictions I thought there was a chance that you might have actual palythoa unlike most in this forum that just throw the "paly" name on any zoanthud species that larger in size.

Sadly, for how bad the hobby is with calling things by what genus they might actually be, the scientific world and taxonomy of zoanthids is even more messy.





No I'm not wasting my precious time, no. Who told you that zoanthus spp. do not benefit from target feeding? Please tell me, would you? Have you at least tried for yourself? Try first and bring your results for us. If you do the right way you should be fine and see results in about a week or two.

I've tried quite a bit in this hobby... Many years ago I owned my own fish food company and extensively studied and experimented with coral and fish nutrition. Everything from actual food types to what size foods are accepted by various corals. Improper understanding of what corals to feed and what to feed them is something that has plagued this hobby for decades. People feeding their corals phytoplankton and various liquid foods with silly names and unknown content all the way on up to feeding them large chunks of food simply because they will ingest them is evidence of this.


Any feeding add organics to our systems. That's not new. I think you should study more about coral and zoanthid's feeding behaviors or at least try on your own, so you can come here and leave your true experiences for us.
I don't mean to be rude, but sincerely telling you with words.

See above... Also, simply adding organics is not necessarily feeding your corals.

I thank you very much for all you've wrote. I really appreciate!!! Wish more would take time to write their thoughts and why.
I've heard many times all that you brought up here, but still would like to understand where people got those types of info from. Books? Web? Papers?

Either I'm lying or I'm going crazy, right? Perhaps dreaming? LOL!!!:thumbsup:

Debate is healthy, and there's not enough intellient diagreements on these forums anymore. Most of the people I knew with with scientific backgrounds, or at least a great interest in the science behind our hobby, won't come near forums anymore. Quite frankly I can't blame them given some of the directions it has taken in the last decade.

Grandis.