when xenia starts to die...

[mstump]

I tried a product from tropic marine (Drs FosterSmith) that was supposed to lower phosphates. It was a phosphate sponge. My xenia looked kind of funny right after I put in the pads. I went ahead and did the 72 hour deal as per the instructions. I did a water change after the 72 hours and now 90% of my xenia is leaning over and looking real bad. The stalkes even have some bulges on them. Should I go ahead and take the xenia out of the tank or wait and see what happens? I have probably have 10 stalks.

PS: It didn't get rid of the hair algae either !

 

[c_stowers]

It will take time to get rid of the hair algae. Most of those aluminum based sponges are hard on softies. Usually they will come around in 2 to 3 days, but I have heard of them not makingt through these types of treatments. I would personally let the xenia try to tough it out, but it is your call.

 

[phljess]

I am sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your xenia. IME, sometimes they pull through when they go into a melt down and most of the time they don't. There is really nothing I know that will help your situation except stop using the product that is causing the problem and do a water change each day to help. I would not move the coral because this would probably just make it more stressful for its recovery. Sometimes even when xenia completely melt down they will return in a few days. Wish I could help you more. The only person I know of that might be of assistance is Matt G. he seems to know a lot about xenias.

Good luck

 

[essop3]

JINX!!!

I used Phosban 2 days ago. This am 4 or 5 heads of my Xenia were melted. The rest looks good. It's a small % of my Xenia but a big devils hand is looking rough too.

I believe my phosphates were sky high. So high the corals weren't opening. I was getting alot of hair algae in my overflow, but my foxface and tang never let me assess the display. I had really thick algae on the glass. I bladed it every week, magnet every time I walked by.

What caused your phosphates to rise? I think mine came from feeding a huge carpet anemone (now gone).

 

[H.crispa]

Gang, I'm sorry to hear of all these unfortunate incidents. This does however, harden my belief that most "solutions-in-a-bottle" are risky, dangerous and in some cases border on voodoo reefing. Once in a while, out of grasping at straws, I'll try one and every time I do, something dies. I lost a huge yellow porites to Chemi-clean. I lost a couple specimens to some gunk called "No-Cyano". Most recently, I tried "Flatworm Exit". Guess what happened! I lost a Chip's Acro.

Many people use these SIABs (solutions in a bottle) with great success and good for them! I'm always glad when it works out. Frankly folks, they scare the living mierda out of me. In addition-- most often IMO-- they treat a symptom while the disease goes merrily on.

I'm sorry to hear of these tragedies and anyone who has been in the game longer than a week-- myself included-- has one they can share with the group.

My talk at the next meeting will address these issues and many others. I have yet to actually write the speech and even if I had, I would keep it under wraps until the day. (So I'm sorry, but no... I won't give any "sneak previews". No amount of PMs or begging will change my mind-- so those of you who always badger me will just have to be patient. You know who you are!)

By the way, if I were you, I'd do a 30 to 50% water change with water that has been aerated and aged for at least 8 hours. Yes, it is a further shock to the xenia but if there is a toxin in the water, the xenia are probably better able to deal with the large water change better than the toxin. This is however, a judgement call YOU will have to make. If the Xenia is already so traumatized that the additional shock from the water change might push them right over the edge... then I STRONGLY recommend you IMMEDIATELY put a BUNCH of high grade carbon in your filters. Carbon may not remove the toxin, but it might. It certainly won't do any harm and IMO and experience, it will most likely help.

 

[firefish2020]

Well this has been addressed before a few times and I found out the hard way myself last year. Those Aluminum based products are really rough on some soft coral especially most of the so called leathers including sinularia, etc...
The best thing to do for hair algae is to use RO/DI or DI water not distilled or spring. Either way the water should be as close to 0 TDS (total dissolved solids) as possible. I have seen water changes with a TDS of 4 or under wipe out hair algae in systems within a month. However you need to find the root of the algae before trying to rid yourself of it. It could and probably is a result of several things.
Hair algae is basically a by-product of a nutrient imbalance within a system. You are not getting rid of waste fast enough to compensate for the continued amount of food import.

Some ideas I would suggest would be:
Use a good quality skimmer, check the contents of your salt mix some can lead to hair algae, use only RO/DI water for changes and topping off, cut back on food or switch brands, also increased flow in the system can help in conjunction with other steps.

Best of luck though, it's a hard thing to rid yourself of, prob one of the hardest.

 

[H.crispa]

Ditto that Ron!

Treat the DISEASE, not the SYMPTOM.

 

[mstump]

Well, I guess this my leason learned. Should I remove the xenia or let it go a few days to see if it comes back?

I have been fighting this HA for 6 months. I got a Coralife 65 skimmer at the first of the year. I only feed every other day. I watch the 3 fish eat and I can honestly say 99% of the food is eaten. I have a lot of flow. I have 2 power heads, a uv filter, the skimmer, and a bio-wheel (less wheels) 330. This is all in only a 30 gal tank. I am getting tired of picking HA off the rock every water change (and my clown wearing my hand out) ( I swear one day I may whack him - just kidding) and the next week it is just as thick. I also started buying the DI water from Fuji's about 1 1/2 months ago. My bulbs are 9 months old. I only use instant ocean salt. I've tried everything I know so thats why I thought I would use this phosphate pad.

 

[essop3]

Anyone have experince with Phosban? I read nothing but praise on the message boards.

It is iron based. Would I still have the softy problems (mine are minor when compared) or is it still an effect of the phosphates?

 

[H.crispa]

I have used a Kent product called--I think-- Phos-sorb, with no ill consequenses. My phosphates are always zero on the odd, once a year occasion that I actually check them, I was using it to remove silicate. I didn't even test for silicate and since then I have read of some reef authorities much more learned than I, who actuall DOSED silicate in an effort to keep a certain sponge or some other hard-to-keep invert. The silicate myth is a crock of crapola in my opinion as well but that is another story. I was trying to get rid of diatoms.

The phos-sorb did absolutely nothing... thankfully. At least it didn't kill anything! But I later discovered that the source of the problem was some other something that I could not test for or did not know how to test for or even that I needed to test for. When I started using low-dose ozone in my skimmer, the diatoms went away. How the ozone worked, I have my suspicions, but I have never actually researched it. The ozone worked and whatever was causing the problem, went away. That is plenty good enough for me. I don't even care why it worked.

Bottom line here: Some stuff is safe in some tanks and if it does or does not do what you used it for, as long as it does no harm, I'd consider that a success!

Use this stuff if you think it is the right course of action. However, use it with trepidation-- whatever it is. Be careful. Take nothing for granted. Watch your tank like a hawk and reevaluate your course of action at the first sign of trouble. Listen to what your livestock is telling you-- Use the Force or whatever! And tell Obe-wan I said "duh-huh!"-- he'll know what you mean!

 

[firefish2020]

Leave the xenia alone and wait, test the water you are using anyway just to be safe. You have a good deal of flow but my definition of "a lot of flow" has greatly been altered this past year. What are you feeding? I advise you feed those fish at least twice a day try smaller portions of a lower nutrient food see if that changes anything.

 

[mstump]

Mostly spectrum pellets and occassionaly omega one flakes and frozen mysis shrimp.

They are always sleeping when I go to work. Should I feed a little when I get home from work (5:30) and before lights out (10:30).

 

[firefish2020]

Check this out

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-02/rs/feature/index.php

 

[H.crispa]

One more thought. Biggest, baddest skimmer you can afford! and squirt about 30-50 mg/hr of ozone into that skimmer. Run the effluent through carbon. I think you'll see a quick improvement.

Check out the article on ozone in this month's reef whatever magazine. Good info. I learnd a LOT!!!!! Tons! Bunches!

 

[mstump]

Wow Ron, that article was a little over my head. It was interesting though. Should I quit my job and stay home and feed the fish? lol

Do you think it would be best to feed small amounts twice daily? Is 5:30 and 10:00 to close together? Is the food I'm feeding ok? The only problem I have is getting enough food to the bottom for the goby before the clown and dottyback suck it all up.

The Xenia looks about the same today. At least it dosen't look worse!

 

[firefish2020]

No lol, they make some nice auto feeders now, I believe Penplax makes one that feeds 1-3 times daily that is pretty low priced. I have never tried it though at least not yet. I was planning on ordering one soon though so I'll let you know how it works.

leave the xenia alone just wait and see

 

[mstump]

Yea ! The xenia looks like its making a comback. Xenia is tuff!

 

[firefish2020]

indeed it is

 

[fishmon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7065084#post7065084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by firefish2020
No lol, they make some nice auto feeders now, I believe Penplax makes one that feeds 1-3 times daily that is pretty low priced. I have never tried it though at least not yet. I was planning on ordering one soon though so I'll let you know how it works.

Hydor makes a good one too, along with rainbow lifeguard, the lifeguard is prob the best imo, you can load exactly the amount you want fed each time, the pennplax can overfeed if your not careful.