Mr31415
Active member
What would you do if you were me. A brief history of where I live...
In South Africa we have maybe 2-3 large LFS shops - and by large I mean one for instance have say 50 or so small marine tanks, one 520g show tank and another 2600g display tank (fish only).
The particular one I visit is the importer of the major brands like Deltec, Giesemann, Aqua Medic, Tunze, etc. Their tanks are rather clean and rarely do you see diseases or lots of dead fish. Corals are usually in nice shape and the general feel is that they look after their live stock. The are 31 miles from my house so to go there is a 62 mile trip. Closer to me there are a couple of shops but they typically have 1-3 tanks and not places I'd give my money to for live stock - their shops are just not up to standard and they are way too expensive.
I have spend about USD 25000 there during the past year - so I am definitely supporting them very well. I have purchased 4 tanks - one 145g, one 120g, one 31g and the latest one - the 480g tank. All my equipment, food and live stock I buy from them. I have been dealing with one specific sales guy the whole time and he has always considered what is best for my aquariums more than what is best for their income - i.e. many times he advised me against purchasing something if it was doomed to die or if my tank was not yet ready.
Enough history - now for the dilemma. Those who followed my 480g project thread would recall I have had lots of troubles these past couple of months. I am going to try and state the facts as objectively as I can, and I'd like you to raise your personal opinion as to what you would have done were you me, in THIS country (South Africa). This is important because in Europe or USA I am sure you can just walk to the next massive LFS and do your business with them. Here I do not really have that luxury - there are VERY few large, well run LFS shops here.
With that in mind:
1) The first 480g tank they built (using 2x10mm bases - according to them and others in SA a standard practice) broke within 24 hours of filling it with water. The crack ran for 2.7m - all the water was lost in an hour or so. So I lost 2 x 25kg buckets of salt, 1700l RO/DI water and ofcourse the tank. While I was on holiday and this had happened, they came to my house and investigated the situation. Immediately they acknowledged it was a bad tank and offered to build a new one free of charge. One month later the new tank (this time with 3 x 10mm bases) and the new stand (thicker square tubing, more center support braces) was delivered. They also gave me 2 x 25kg buckets of salt for free. They did not have time to level it for me - I had to do that. I asked the owner to come out and ensure it is set up properly befor I fill it - he said he was too busy to come out within the next 2-3 days but he is sure it will be ok - carry on.
2) 3 days after the new tank had been filled, I noticed a new crack as discussed in another topic - between the two bulkhead holes, on the lower of the 3 layered 10mm glass panes on the bottom of the tank. No water is leaking obviously, but the crack is there. I phoned them and they said I had nothing to worry about - it happens. They said the structural integrity of the tank is still intact as the other two panels still support it and even though the bottom one has a 14cm crack, it is still providing structural strength. They gave NO hint that they were stressed or that it is a gamble with 480g of water... So obviously there is no chance they will replace it for me without cost.
3) The canopy they built is an open top design. The tank was designed to have two 25mm return pipes from the overflow to two 25mm holes drilled on either side at the opposite end of the tank. I plumed it like that, but when I tried to put the canopy on I realised the support beam they added to the canopy connecting the two long sides in the middle, was way too low and pressed on the return pipes. There was no way that canopy could fit on the tank. I had to break it loose, and raise it by about 40mm before it fitted on top of the tank.
4) Trying to order some Giesemann lights from then I was told 4-5 times during the course of 2 months that the shipment is on its way. Obviously I started getting skeptical so I called the owner of the shop (I used to deal with my regular contact who I think is a manager at the shop - apart from the owner by far the most clued up there). He informed me that they were just waiting for the decision which colours they were going to order then in about 10 days' time he would place the order, then in about 3-4 weeks the order should arrive from Europe. That was AFTER 2 months of hearing it is already on its way.
5) 3 months ago when I ordered my 480g and all the equipment, I specifically ordered a Deltec AP 703 skimmer - the short one that can fit in the sump. Two months later when the shipment finally came - all the skimmers were there except for a 703 - so I had to get a 902 which does not fit underneath the tank...
6) The design of the sumps are so bad that I can barely get my hands underneath the tank to work inside the sumps. No way I can get that 703 skimmer in there even if I had it.
7) The canopy is a HUGE mission to remove from the tank due to the location of the tank. But there is no way to remove the side panels of the canopy so in practise it is impossible for me to work in my tank (moving LR etc) with the canopy on. I phoned them today asking for a solution - I got a very unwilling response that they will see whether there is something they can do, but don't get your hopes up.
So my question - are these people taking me for a ride? Are they taking advantage of me and am I not getting the quality of service I should be expecting to get by international standards?
Or is this pretty standard practise and what they are doing is average for what is going on in the LFS industry? I am asking since in my line of business I would NEVER give a client a half written system - I will always go out of my way to give them the best I can. I just feel I am maybe not getting that kind of deal?
In South Africa we have maybe 2-3 large LFS shops - and by large I mean one for instance have say 50 or so small marine tanks, one 520g show tank and another 2600g display tank (fish only).
The particular one I visit is the importer of the major brands like Deltec, Giesemann, Aqua Medic, Tunze, etc. Their tanks are rather clean and rarely do you see diseases or lots of dead fish. Corals are usually in nice shape and the general feel is that they look after their live stock. The are 31 miles from my house so to go there is a 62 mile trip. Closer to me there are a couple of shops but they typically have 1-3 tanks and not places I'd give my money to for live stock - their shops are just not up to standard and they are way too expensive.
I have spend about USD 25000 there during the past year - so I am definitely supporting them very well. I have purchased 4 tanks - one 145g, one 120g, one 31g and the latest one - the 480g tank. All my equipment, food and live stock I buy from them. I have been dealing with one specific sales guy the whole time and he has always considered what is best for my aquariums more than what is best for their income - i.e. many times he advised me against purchasing something if it was doomed to die or if my tank was not yet ready.
Enough history - now for the dilemma. Those who followed my 480g project thread would recall I have had lots of troubles these past couple of months. I am going to try and state the facts as objectively as I can, and I'd like you to raise your personal opinion as to what you would have done were you me, in THIS country (South Africa). This is important because in Europe or USA I am sure you can just walk to the next massive LFS and do your business with them. Here I do not really have that luxury - there are VERY few large, well run LFS shops here.
With that in mind:
1) The first 480g tank they built (using 2x10mm bases - according to them and others in SA a standard practice) broke within 24 hours of filling it with water. The crack ran for 2.7m - all the water was lost in an hour or so. So I lost 2 x 25kg buckets of salt, 1700l RO/DI water and ofcourse the tank. While I was on holiday and this had happened, they came to my house and investigated the situation. Immediately they acknowledged it was a bad tank and offered to build a new one free of charge. One month later the new tank (this time with 3 x 10mm bases) and the new stand (thicker square tubing, more center support braces) was delivered. They also gave me 2 x 25kg buckets of salt for free. They did not have time to level it for me - I had to do that. I asked the owner to come out and ensure it is set up properly befor I fill it - he said he was too busy to come out within the next 2-3 days but he is sure it will be ok - carry on.
2) 3 days after the new tank had been filled, I noticed a new crack as discussed in another topic - between the two bulkhead holes, on the lower of the 3 layered 10mm glass panes on the bottom of the tank. No water is leaking obviously, but the crack is there. I phoned them and they said I had nothing to worry about - it happens. They said the structural integrity of the tank is still intact as the other two panels still support it and even though the bottom one has a 14cm crack, it is still providing structural strength. They gave NO hint that they were stressed or that it is a gamble with 480g of water... So obviously there is no chance they will replace it for me without cost.
3) The canopy they built is an open top design. The tank was designed to have two 25mm return pipes from the overflow to two 25mm holes drilled on either side at the opposite end of the tank. I plumed it like that, but when I tried to put the canopy on I realised the support beam they added to the canopy connecting the two long sides in the middle, was way too low and pressed on the return pipes. There was no way that canopy could fit on the tank. I had to break it loose, and raise it by about 40mm before it fitted on top of the tank.
4) Trying to order some Giesemann lights from then I was told 4-5 times during the course of 2 months that the shipment is on its way. Obviously I started getting skeptical so I called the owner of the shop (I used to deal with my regular contact who I think is a manager at the shop - apart from the owner by far the most clued up there). He informed me that they were just waiting for the decision which colours they were going to order then in about 10 days' time he would place the order, then in about 3-4 weeks the order should arrive from Europe. That was AFTER 2 months of hearing it is already on its way.
5) 3 months ago when I ordered my 480g and all the equipment, I specifically ordered a Deltec AP 703 skimmer - the short one that can fit in the sump. Two months later when the shipment finally came - all the skimmers were there except for a 703 - so I had to get a 902 which does not fit underneath the tank...
6) The design of the sumps are so bad that I can barely get my hands underneath the tank to work inside the sumps. No way I can get that 703 skimmer in there even if I had it.
7) The canopy is a HUGE mission to remove from the tank due to the location of the tank. But there is no way to remove the side panels of the canopy so in practise it is impossible for me to work in my tank (moving LR etc) with the canopy on. I phoned them today asking for a solution - I got a very unwilling response that they will see whether there is something they can do, but don't get your hopes up.
So my question - are these people taking me for a ride? Are they taking advantage of me and am I not getting the quality of service I should be expecting to get by international standards?
Or is this pretty standard practise and what they are doing is average for what is going on in the LFS industry? I am asking since in my line of business I would NEVER give a client a half written system - I will always go out of my way to give them the best I can. I just feel I am maybe not getting that kind of deal?
) I have decided to contact a local tank builder who came highly recommended by another LFS here...
