Which basic controller?

[Dave Thebrewguy]

I'm considering taking the plunge on a basic controller, the problem is in trying to figure out what fits my needs and which add-ons I'll need both now and later.
As I'm setting up a new tank, I'm trying to figure out what I'll need to control and how I'll need to control it. So far it looks like I'll need the following:

Lighting, 3x timer controlled outlets for T5 and 1x PMW or analog for LED. At somepoint in the near future this should reverse, as I convert more lighting to LED.
ATO, I haven't yet set anything up but will probably use an aqualifter and float switches so going through a controller is the obvoius choice.
Wavemaker, I'm currently using a Red Sea Wavemaster Pro and am quite happy with it. I'd like to use the controller for this but I'd prefer to have a program that can mimic the Wavemaster. I'd like to run 3 pumps on seperate channels and still have the random patterns that the Wavemaster creates and also have a night mode.
Other, Heater, Return pump (feed mode, WC) pH monitor, the usual suspects.

It looks to me like I could really use 8-10 controlled outlets now but that should drop to 5-7 at some point in the future. I guess 8 outlets is a safe number, I'll just leave my fuge light on a mechanical timer for now.
I need just 1 LED control right now (either PWM or analog, I haven't ordered the driver yet) but I can see needing 2-4 in the future, preferably with a sunrise/sunset function, plus a lunar cycle would be nice, so lets call it 5 channels. I'll probably want to plug it in to the internet at some point but it's not a priority at first. When the time comes, a Droid app would be important and I can easily hardwire into my router (it's within 10' of the tank).

Ideally, there'd be a package that's a perfect fit for as little money as possible, but this is the real world so I've gotta figure out what fits best and How much I'll need to spend to get it. Budget is $250-ish to start, I can add upgrades later. The current contenders are, Reef Angel, RKL and Apex Jr.
Reef Angel seems to be the best fit, 8 outlets, 2 PWM channels and it includes float switches (I'd assume there's a port to hook up the float switches? It's not shown in the pics on their site) and ph and temp sensors. It seems to be just about what I'm looking for and $219 seems pretty reasonable. What I'm not so sure about, aside from the float switch hook up, is the wavemaker function. The site shows only 2 pump channels and simple timers, can it be set up to use a 3rd and 4th channel and create random patterns? Can it be set for "night mode?" Can Reef Angel be pluged in to my router or does it need to have the wifi module for use via the web or my phone?
The ReefKeeper Elite is a little beyond the budget and reading the RKL has left me with more questions than answers. Am I correct in thinking that the RKL can not control dimmable LED drivers and that the wavemaker function is limited to 2 channels on a simple timer? Unless I'm missing something, the $280 "RKL level 3" meets my outlet needs, will control an ATO pump and can be expanded for moonlight and web functions (is there a Droid app?), but it does not have a sunrise/sunset function and it can't even be added. Am I wrong about this? It looks like a good unit on the surface but it seems to be missing a couple of key features.
I've had a hard time finding much on the Apex Jr. I don't mind the lack of display on the base model, my router is still just a few feet away and so is the computer that I use most often, so I don't mind accessing the unit that way. It also appears that the basic package includes web functionality so I could be up and running that way from the beginning. Is there a Droid app or just iphone? I can access it from any browser, no? I guess I could do that if there's no app for my droid. To get my 8 outlets I'll need the $149 Apex jr. plus a $109 Energybar4. That's close enough to the target budget, but what about the lighting? The Neptune site mentions that the unit can do sunrise/sunset simulation, but it doesnt mention if it includes the control outputs (as opposed to requiring an add-on module) or how many channels are available, or if it supports PWM or analog. Again, the wavemaler appears to be a simple "2 alternating pumps" kinda thing.
Obviously I have a lot of questions. I'm to the point where I need to spend a few bucks for an ATO system and I'm thinking ahead to the time when I'll need lighting control. I also don't want another stand full of mechanical timers. I'd appreciate anything that can fill in some of the blanks for me as far as which unit can do what and if my assumptions are correct or not. Is there anything I'll need to buy that I haven't mentioned (expansion modules, probes, float switches? Do any of these units offer the wavemaker functions that I'd like? Are there any other unit's that might fit my needs?
One thing that seems to be missing from the market, I'm surprised that nobody seems to make a full-size computer based system. I do have a few old computers collecting dust, is there any system out that would use a windows or linux based computer as it's "brain" and display, and plug modules into that?
Wow, that was long! Thanks for reading it all, and thanks for any help that you might be able to offer.

 

[pwreef]

RKL ALC module adds control for 2 analog 1-10v LED driver channels and two moon lights. Be aware that you can only have 4 modules on RKL max! There are only 2 wave maker channels but you can always put 2 pumps on each. Some devices I.e. pumps may not shut off on RKL power bar ports 2 and 3 because they are not relays, so you will only be able to use 1 and 4 for them.

 

[bongarone]

I've got the RKL. Good unit and value.

RKL ALC module adds control for 2 analog 1-10v LED driver channels and two moon lights. Be aware that you can only have 4 modules on RKL max! There are only 2 wave maker channels but you can always put 2 pumps on each. Some devices I.e. pumps may not shut off on RKL power bar ports 2 and 3 because they are not relays, so you will only be able to use 1 and 4 for them.

Yes, you can only have 4 modules max. Right now i have 2 power bars and an SL1 module (ph probe, temperature probe, float switch, with room for one more switch and an ORP probe). If I were to add a moonlight module I'd be maxed out. But that would be enough for my setup.

My outlets 1-8 are used as follows:
1 - dawn/dusk lights (2 x ATI blue plus)
2 - Koralia #1
3 - Skimmer
4 - Heater #1
5 - Heater #2
6 - ATO pump (aqualifter)
7 - Koralia #2
8 - Main lights (4 x ATI bulbs)

Also, power bar ports 2 and 3 do indeed stick for some pumps, such as my aqualifter pump used for my ATO. You can work around this problem by adding a surge protector in between the port and the pump. Worked for me.

 

[tkeracer619]

I use the ReefAngel.

It can do anything you want. It is open source so pretty much anything you can think of it can do. It is more complex to setup and get the hang of then then the others. If you want control of it from your cell phone (android/iphone) you would also need the wifi module.

It would however control your lighting, pwm, ato, and wavemaker functions out of the box. You would need to write make the code for that but... Its easy enough and if you can't figure it out just ask. The community would be happy to help.

 

[tobyte1]

Reef Angel for sure. Absolutely the most bang for the buck if you're not scared of a little programming(and it's not THAT difficult).

 

[Dave Thebrewguy]

It sounds like I'd have a RKL maxed out before I get to my anticipated requirements and be in for around $600. I should probably rule that one out but I'd be willing to hear more opinions on it. The RA should meet my needs if I can figure out the programing. Anyone care to comment on the Apex jr?

 

[Dave Thebrewguy]

I posted that last bit (via phone) yesterday while waiting in line at DMV. Last night I did a little more research on the RKL and the results were disappointing.
The best bet for me to start off would be the RKL level 3 which includes two PC4 modules and a SL1 module for $279. I'd need to add an ACL right away, this brings the price up to $350 and I'd be up to the maximum number of expansion modules. Future plans include the need for at least one more ACL and a Net adapter, which would set me back another $200 but I can't even add any more modules.
The RKL is off the list.
I took a quick look at the RKE, it includes the same modules as the RKL level 3 and can be expanded further but at $350 plus $80 for the initial ALC its not within the current budget. With my anticipated future upgrades it would be around $630 by the time I'm done.
The Reef Angel includes all I need initially for $219 (PWM, +$20 for Analog). Additional lighting channels and the web interface will cost another $200 at some point in the future and there's still room for plenty more expansion in the future. One part of me thinks this is an easy choice, the other part point's out that this is seems to be the newcomer of the group with a smaller following and less track record than the others (although I note that the above posts include a couple RA owners and a couple RK owners but no Apex owners, maybe this controller has more of a following than the Apex Jr).
The Apex also looks good on paper, at $149 it's the least expensive. I'll need 4 more outlets ($110) to start and I don't think it includes any lighting control in the base unit so I'd want to add the VDM ($100, 4 analog channels) right away. I could probably get away with stretching the budget to $360, especially when I consider that the web functionality is included. What's not included is a pH probe, the probe and module will add another $120. All together, the Apex Jr will cost $499 by the time I'm done with anticipated upgrades. The unit is limited to 4 expansion modules and a display and I'd have 3 modules on it so I'd still have room for an additional module if needed to add another VDM or something.
I have what's known on the coffeegeek forum as "analysis paralysis," I'm doing the research and confusing myself more.
A) Reef Angel: $219 to get started, $420 by the time I expand it. Newer model, does it have much of a following?
B) Apex Jr: $360 to start, $500 by the time I'm done. I think there may be a following for it, but I've yet to see it. Are you out there Apex owners?

 

[Dave Thebrewguy]

There are only 2 wave maker channels but you can always put 2 pumps on each.

The thing I like about the wave master is that pumps 1 and 2 alternate and pumps 3 and 4 operate randomly. The timing is set by the unit based on the type of flow selected and it's possible to have several pumps running at any given time. Night mode allows only only one pump to run at a time for reduced turbulence.
I'd really like to have something like this available on a controller. I imagine it's possible with the Reef Angel but I may have to learn to program it myself (The only thing worse than a programming newb is a hardware guy). Does anyone know if this software exists for the RA?
Apparently the RKL is limited to just 2 channels, does anyone know what the Apex wavemaker is capable of?

 

[Dave Thebrewguy]

I've got the RKL. Good unit and value.



Yes, you can only have 4 modules max. Right now i have 2 power bars and an SL1 module (ph probe, temperature probe, float switch, with room for one more switch and an ORP probe). If I were to add a moonlight module I'd be maxed out. But that would be enough for my setup.

My outlets 1-8 are used as follows:
1 - dawn/dusk lights (2 x ATI blue plus)
2 - Koralia #1
3 - Skimmer
4 - Heater #1
5 - Heater #2
6 - ATO pump (aqualifter)
7 - Koralia #2
8 - Main lights (4 x ATI bulbs)

Also, power bar ports 2 and 3 do indeed stick for some pumps, such as my aqualifter pump used for my ATO. You can work around this problem by adding a surge protector in between the port and the pump. Worked for me.

Sounds pretty similar to what I'm setting up. My Dawn/Dusk lights will be LED and I'd like them to do sunrise/sunset, so I need a single PWM or analog channel to control that initially. I'd like to move my moonlights to another channel pretty soon and a lunar cycle function would be nice. Eventually, all tank lighting will go to LEDs, maybe even the Fuge lights. For now, I anticipate the following outlets.
1) Actinics *
2) Daylights *
3) Oceanstream/wavemaker 1
4) Oceanstream/wavemaker 2
5) MJ950/wavemaker 3
6) Return pump
7) ATO (aqualifter?)
8) heater
(*)=until replaced by LEDs

This leaves me with my fuge lights on a mechanical timer (until an outlet opens up) and my skimmer constantly on.