I am getting ready to set up a 40g Breeder tank. I am leaning towards purchasing the Aquasanrise Plus R60 but want to make sure it is enough for growing most corals. The website says the Aquasanrise Plus R60 is ideal for 24″-36″ mixed reef tanks. I believe a 40g breeder is 36''. The next step up is the Aquasanrise Plus R90 which the website says the Aquasanrise Plus R90 is ideal for 36″-48″ mixed reef tanks. I would rather not spend the extra money for the R90 if the R60 is enough. Appreciate any suggestions!
Which LED System for 40g Breeder
- Thread starter Marco333
- Start date
zooman72
New member
Yes, a 40B is 36" in length, 18" in width, and 16" tall - while not my first choice personally, this light should work for a 40B if you hang it high enough to ensure proper coverage. I would not use the "feet" that it comes with, but if you hang it 12-16" above the aquarium than it should be fine. I don't like that the optics' specs are not given - I would ask before ordering (since they are "swapable"), as it will determine how high you need to hang the light - tighter optics mean higher hanging.
Also, color rendition might/ will be lacking with only 7500K cool whites, and since they allow you to customize, you might consider ditching the reds and greens and replacing them with a lower K warm white (3000-4000K), with maybe another 4-6 of the cool whites swapped for the lower K diodes as well. Should make a big difference in color rendition, more so than just using the red/ green diodes to offset the cool whites - 50-60W's of 7500K cool white: 32-42W's of ~3500K warm white.
Just a suggestion of course - you could always get it as is, see how you like it, and them tinker with the diode composition as you see fit.
Full disclosure - I love my Maxspect Razors (27" 160W 16K) on my pair of 40B's. I had run one of their 24" Photon's previous to the Razors, and it also worked well, but was just a bit "pink" to my eyes (no cool whites to offset the neutrals and reds?) - color rendition often is an individual "thing". They also still offer the V1 Photon, and it can also be customized for a good bit less than the light you have listed. However, the Photon looks too big over the tank for me (and weighs quite a bit).
Good luck either way, and report back what you experience with it.
Also, color rendition might/ will be lacking with only 7500K cool whites, and since they allow you to customize, you might consider ditching the reds and greens and replacing them with a lower K warm white (3000-4000K), with maybe another 4-6 of the cool whites swapped for the lower K diodes as well. Should make a big difference in color rendition, more so than just using the red/ green diodes to offset the cool whites - 50-60W's of 7500K cool white: 32-42W's of ~3500K warm white.
Just a suggestion of course - you could always get it as is, see how you like it, and them tinker with the diode composition as you see fit.
Full disclosure - I love my Maxspect Razors (27" 160W 16K) on my pair of 40B's. I had run one of their 24" Photon's previous to the Razors, and it also worked well, but was just a bit "pink" to my eyes (no cool whites to offset the neutrals and reds?) - color rendition often is an individual "thing". They also still offer the V1 Photon, and it can also be customized for a good bit less than the light you have listed. However, the Photon looks too big over the tank for me (and weighs quite a bit).
Good luck either way, and report back what you experience with it.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Marco, I think the Aquasanrise fixture you picked is a very good fixture, better than the Maxspect Razor that zooman suggested. The Razor is more expensive, has no fans and has only 2 channels of color control versus 6 channels of color control in the Aquasanrise. Plus it has the ability to change leds easily! You should have no trouble getting the color of light you want with individual led color control. zooman is stuck with only 2 channels and he can't dial in or out any specific colors, just groups of colors.
I'm not sure why zooman thinks the legs are a bad idea. They will set the fixture just high enough to cover a 36" wide tank.
And Reef Breeders has GREAT customer service. I had an issue with a pump that RB sold for a very short time, they sent me a complete new wet side to the pump in just 4 days, for free, even though they haven't been selling them for months now.
I'm not sure why zooman thinks the legs are a bad idea. They will set the fixture just high enough to cover a 36" wide tank.
And Reef Breeders has GREAT customer service. I had an issue with a pump that RB sold for a very short time, they sent me a complete new wet side to the pump in just 4 days, for free, even though they haven't been selling them for months now.
Last edited:
zooman72
New member
Ron, Ron, Ron......I know you just love you some ReefBreeders lights, but come on - they are not the greatest thing since sliced bread! Geez, where to start...let's see...
1. Cost: the Aquasanrise is $450 for the 22" 140W R60, and the Maxspect is $510 for the 27" 180W - this is not some massive amount, more like 12% difference (or half the wattage % difference). CoralVue has excellent customer service too (at least in my opinion) - Chris @ CoralVue just sent me a new hanging kit (no charge) when I broke one after our move to a new home, and my lights are several years old!
2. The Razor does have fans, two of them, and they come on when needed - since I have had mine running now for several years they have not needed to come on, and my lights max out at a 65%W:75%B ratio for both of my 40B's.
3. Multiple channel control (i.e. 6 vs. 2) is not all that it is cracked up to be for every aquarist - I see no "issue" with mine, and it makes programming a breeze (two of them, side by side too). Don't tell me that programming the ReefBreeders is easier - you have complained about it yourself! Also, we have no idea how "easy" or "good" the programming on the Aquasanrise is - see my note of a previous review below in #6 (hint: it did not go well).
One of the big complaints often lobbed against LED fixtures is the unnecessary complexity of channel control. I have a Radion Gen3 Pro also (Ron thinks these are "bad" too) - I have not needed to tweak individual channels, but have simply gone with one of the several presets available - does that make it a lesser light? Or am I "stuck" with an inferior light because I chose a simpler programming method?
4. Ron has no idea if the legs on the Aquasanrise will place the fixture high enough to ensure proper coverage, and neither do I or anyone else here because they do not list the lens specs (although they say they are replaceable). With such a relatively narrow fixture (compared to the ReefBreeders V1 and 2 for example) measuring 22" x 8", I have a hard time believing one would get sufficient coverage on a 40B (36" x 18") without it being hung quite high over the aquarium. Again, I am running two of that size aquarium currently, have gone through a lot of lighting over the years (not just LED, but also MH and T5), including a Photon V1, and know what I am talking about with spread. I hang my 27" Razors 14" above the top of the aquarium (after a bit of trial and error), and they now give perfect spread for my 40B's.
5. Ron conveniently leaves out color rendition, but I did not, and having used or directly seen in action literally every conceivable lighting fixture on the market (except the Aquasanrise of course), I feel the color rendition of the Aquasanrise would need to addressed. Now it allows you to address it, that is true, and I gave some pointers (not just bashing the light), but then the OP becomes the "guinea pig", and I thought I could help him avoid that if he so chose.
6. Ron seems to be "hooked" on "cheaper" lighting, and while I understand the sentiment, other, more expensive, options are just as good minimally, and often simply better. That said, the OP might indeed enjoy the Aquasanrise, but notice I said "might" - there just isn't much out there in terms of long-term reviews (I saw one here on RC: Top China Brand LED review - spoiler, the reviewer didn't think much of them), whereas there is plenty for the Maxspect Razor, or even the ReefBreeeders Photon for that matter.
Finally, "I have no dog in this fight" - the OP can use what he sees fit, and it won't hurt me, but he did ask for an opinion, and I thought I gave a well-reasoned one. Simply stating one is better than another by stating some rather dubious "facts" (while leaving out some other important considerations) won't help anyone. Every single light out there has Pros and Cons, and every aquarist would be wise to consider them before making a decision, which is sometimes admittedly hard to do when it comes to things like color rendition of the aquarium under the fixture.
1. Cost: the Aquasanrise is $450 for the 22" 140W R60, and the Maxspect is $510 for the 27" 180W - this is not some massive amount, more like 12% difference (or half the wattage % difference). CoralVue has excellent customer service too (at least in my opinion) - Chris @ CoralVue just sent me a new hanging kit (no charge) when I broke one after our move to a new home, and my lights are several years old!
2. The Razor does have fans, two of them, and they come on when needed - since I have had mine running now for several years they have not needed to come on, and my lights max out at a 65%W:75%B ratio for both of my 40B's.
3. Multiple channel control (i.e. 6 vs. 2) is not all that it is cracked up to be for every aquarist - I see no "issue" with mine, and it makes programming a breeze (two of them, side by side too). Don't tell me that programming the ReefBreeders is easier - you have complained about it yourself! Also, we have no idea how "easy" or "good" the programming on the Aquasanrise is - see my note of a previous review below in #6 (hint: it did not go well).
One of the big complaints often lobbed against LED fixtures is the unnecessary complexity of channel control. I have a Radion Gen3 Pro also (Ron thinks these are "bad" too) - I have not needed to tweak individual channels, but have simply gone with one of the several presets available - does that make it a lesser light? Or am I "stuck" with an inferior light because I chose a simpler programming method?
4. Ron has no idea if the legs on the Aquasanrise will place the fixture high enough to ensure proper coverage, and neither do I or anyone else here because they do not list the lens specs (although they say they are replaceable). With such a relatively narrow fixture (compared to the ReefBreeders V1 and 2 for example) measuring 22" x 8", I have a hard time believing one would get sufficient coverage on a 40B (36" x 18") without it being hung quite high over the aquarium. Again, I am running two of that size aquarium currently, have gone through a lot of lighting over the years (not just LED, but also MH and T5), including a Photon V1, and know what I am talking about with spread. I hang my 27" Razors 14" above the top of the aquarium (after a bit of trial and error), and they now give perfect spread for my 40B's.
5. Ron conveniently leaves out color rendition, but I did not, and having used or directly seen in action literally every conceivable lighting fixture on the market (except the Aquasanrise of course), I feel the color rendition of the Aquasanrise would need to addressed. Now it allows you to address it, that is true, and I gave some pointers (not just bashing the light), but then the OP becomes the "guinea pig", and I thought I could help him avoid that if he so chose.
6. Ron seems to be "hooked" on "cheaper" lighting, and while I understand the sentiment, other, more expensive, options are just as good minimally, and often simply better. That said, the OP might indeed enjoy the Aquasanrise, but notice I said "might" - there just isn't much out there in terms of long-term reviews (I saw one here on RC: Top China Brand LED review - spoiler, the reviewer didn't think much of them), whereas there is plenty for the Maxspect Razor, or even the ReefBreeeders Photon for that matter.
Finally, "I have no dog in this fight" - the OP can use what he sees fit, and it won't hurt me, but he did ask for an opinion, and I thought I gave a well-reasoned one. Simply stating one is better than another by stating some rather dubious "facts" (while leaving out some other important considerations) won't help anyone. Every single light out there has Pros and Cons, and every aquarist would be wise to consider them before making a decision, which is sometimes admittedly hard to do when it comes to things like color rendition of the aquarium under the fixture.
Ron Reefman
Active member
zooman, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just discuss leds. And this will be the last I will say about this here. But all you told me is the Razor is as good as the Aquasanrise in some respects , not as good in others, not better in any and costs more?
You talk about color rendition and you have a 2 channel system. With 6 channels, color rendition is in your control.
As for coverage, the Aquasanrise and the Photon V2 are both 8.5" wide and have the same legs, so yes, I can say with confidence that the 24" fixture will cover a 36"x18" tank. I believe the lenses to be 90 degree, but a simple question in the Reef bReeders sponsor forum would answer that question.
Programming is in the eye of the beholder. And I have complained about an issue with my V2. I've never used a Razor, but I'd wager there are things to complain about on it as well. Like 2 channel color control on a fixture that costs more than one with 6 channels. Do you NEED the extra control, I've said it many times now, your corals really don't care if you can fine tune the color. It's more about your eye. Some people are far more picky about the color in their tank than others. Personally I don't think I'm very picky about the color, but I do appreciate the control.
And yes, if I can find a product that works just as good or better, for less money, I'm all for it. If you like to spend money on the overpriced brand name, be my guest. And I do defend some (not all) of the less expensive fixtures because they all come from China; and there is just so much China bashing and so much praise for overpriced brands that I try to inform that there are lower priced, good quality options out there.
BTW, I never said Radions, AI's or Maxspect fixtures are 'bad', overpriced probably, but not bad. They are perfectly good fixtures that work very well and have good customer support.
You talk about color rendition and you have a 2 channel system. With 6 channels, color rendition is in your control.
As for coverage, the Aquasanrise and the Photon V2 are both 8.5" wide and have the same legs, so yes, I can say with confidence that the 24" fixture will cover a 36"x18" tank. I believe the lenses to be 90 degree, but a simple question in the Reef bReeders sponsor forum would answer that question.
Programming is in the eye of the beholder. And I have complained about an issue with my V2. I've never used a Razor, but I'd wager there are things to complain about on it as well. Like 2 channel color control on a fixture that costs more than one with 6 channels. Do you NEED the extra control, I've said it many times now, your corals really don't care if you can fine tune the color. It's more about your eye. Some people are far more picky about the color in their tank than others. Personally I don't think I'm very picky about the color, but I do appreciate the control.
And yes, if I can find a product that works just as good or better, for less money, I'm all for it. If you like to spend money on the overpriced brand name, be my guest. And I do defend some (not all) of the less expensive fixtures because they all come from China; and there is just so much China bashing and so much praise for overpriced brands that I try to inform that there are lower priced, good quality options out there.
BTW, I never said Radions, AI's or Maxspect fixtures are 'bad', overpriced probably, but not bad. They are perfectly good fixtures that work very well and have good customer support.
zooman72
New member
No worries Ron - I can take it, and love to verbally "joust", plus it's the internet - I see no need to take anything personally in most cases. This is no exception.
That being said, I still have to disagree with you and some of your "clarifications":
a) I find the Razor better in every aspect, and especially for my needs personally. I don't need or want a second-party control application to work with my phone - too many have problems, and I don't find myself making many adjustments once it is "dialed in". If the Razor controller fails (not common at all), it is easily replaceable, and two channels is more than enough because of the diode mix already in the light - no need to turn off red or green diodes if they aren't there, and the mix of warm whites and cool whites lends itself to better color rendition. This means that 6 channels is meaningless if the diodes in each of the channels is subpar.
b) Costs (see above - price per Watt for Aquasanrise is $3.2 per W, and for Maxspect is $2.8 per W) and cooling (both have fans, although Razor construction lends itself to more efficient cooling) are basically a wash, if not slightly in the Razor's favor. If that is the case (you are welcome to argue otherwise), than the only net positive of the Aquasanrise over the Maxspect is the 6-channel control (which some [like me] may view as an unnecessary complication, mitigating the positive), whereas the Maxspect has cooling and color rendition as its net positive, and cost may be a draw. You also fail to mention "disco" color banding, which both the Aquasanrise and ReefBreeders Photon suffer from, and which is especially exacerbated when used at a closer distance to the aquarium, such as when using the legs on both - and for which you turn off the red and green diodes (why even pay for them then?).
c) Continually referring to certain lights as "overpriced" insinuates that they are substandard for their cost, and defending certain Chinese lighting as worth it based simply on cost and "effectiveness" (which is a moving goalpost if there ever was one) may not encompass every variable - even the Maxspects are Chinese in origin, so I am not blind to the various domestic and non-domestic options. I don't like to "push" one light over the other, especially since value varies from one person to the next, but I do like to push the discussion of critical review - what are the pros and cons of each option (there is no perfect light). This allows another hobbyist to make a more informed decision, and to be honest, the best way to determine if a certain lighting source is desirable is to try over one's aquarium or observe it over another - not something every one can or is wont to do.
All that being said Ron, "no harm no foul", and I hope you continue to have "discussions" with me in the future.
That being said, I still have to disagree with you and some of your "clarifications":
a) I find the Razor better in every aspect, and especially for my needs personally. I don't need or want a second-party control application to work with my phone - too many have problems, and I don't find myself making many adjustments once it is "dialed in". If the Razor controller fails (not common at all), it is easily replaceable, and two channels is more than enough because of the diode mix already in the light - no need to turn off red or green diodes if they aren't there, and the mix of warm whites and cool whites lends itself to better color rendition. This means that 6 channels is meaningless if the diodes in each of the channels is subpar.
b) Costs (see above - price per Watt for Aquasanrise is $3.2 per W, and for Maxspect is $2.8 per W) and cooling (both have fans, although Razor construction lends itself to more efficient cooling) are basically a wash, if not slightly in the Razor's favor. If that is the case (you are welcome to argue otherwise), than the only net positive of the Aquasanrise over the Maxspect is the 6-channel control (which some [like me] may view as an unnecessary complication, mitigating the positive), whereas the Maxspect has cooling and color rendition as its net positive, and cost may be a draw. You also fail to mention "disco" color banding, which both the Aquasanrise and ReefBreeders Photon suffer from, and which is especially exacerbated when used at a closer distance to the aquarium, such as when using the legs on both - and for which you turn off the red and green diodes (why even pay for them then?).
c) Continually referring to certain lights as "overpriced" insinuates that they are substandard for their cost, and defending certain Chinese lighting as worth it based simply on cost and "effectiveness" (which is a moving goalpost if there ever was one) may not encompass every variable - even the Maxspects are Chinese in origin, so I am not blind to the various domestic and non-domestic options. I don't like to "push" one light over the other, especially since value varies from one person to the next, but I do like to push the discussion of critical review - what are the pros and cons of each option (there is no perfect light). This allows another hobbyist to make a more informed decision, and to be honest, the best way to determine if a certain lighting source is desirable is to try over one's aquarium or observe it over another - not something every one can or is wont to do.
All that being said Ron, "no harm no foul", and I hope you continue to have "discussions" with me in the future.
justindinh24
New member
if i were you, I will get 2 MarsAqua Dimmable 165W. It does all job that you need on 40B tank.
zooman72
New member
One would be enough for just about any 40B setup, and while certainly a cheaper option, I don't think that the OP requested the cheapest option...
Ron Reefman
Active member
I don't think a single 16" anything will cover a 36" tank very well at all. MarsAqua even states it will only cover 24" in their specs.
zooman72
New member
Again, it depends on the optics and how high it is suspended above the tank, as well as the aquascaping and corals being kept - how high above the aquarium is the MarsAqua "specs" recommending? I just can't see the need to purchase 330W's of light for a 40B! I have seen an EcoTech Radion (Gen 2 Pro I believe) do a pretty good job over a 40B - it was 24" above the tank and running 100% at peak photoperiod. Heck, check out the EcoTech CoralLab write-up, where they suspended them 24" above the 12" and 20" aquariums in the "study" - they were getting a 42" spread.
I have also run a single 150W MH 14K Phoenix bulk in a compact reflector of only 12" in length quite successfully for soft corals and bubble-tip anemones in a 40B (can't remember the name right now of the fixture, but no longer made) - the scape was centered over the center of the aquarium (approximately 24"). Rarely do we need to light the entire footprint of our aquariums unless we are keeping things at the very end, and again, it depends on what is being kept.
It continues to amaze me that we tend to keep our LED fixtures low and right above the aquarium (contributing to color separation, poor blending, PAR hot spots, etc.), but then have to keep them turned down for fear of hurting our corals... :debi:
Ron Reefman
Active member
I can agree with most of that, especially the last paragraph!
RobZilla04
Active member
Should these fixtures be kept at higher to the recommended height of typically 10"-12"?
zooman72
New member
:beer:
In my experience, yes, absolutely - and don't forget, many are keeping their LED's lower than 10"-12". It is easy to do too, so play around with different heights to get the result you want in terms of spread with a given fixture. Unless you have a really deep aquarium and are already maxing them out near or at 100% (rarely done), most fixtures have plenty of PAR left in reserve...:thumbsup:
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