pufferpoison
Member
well i've been trying to read up on it and don't seem to get a clear answer. do you have some links or something?
why are my clowns dying?
- Thread starter pufferpoison
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well i've been trying to read up on it and don't seem to get a clear answer. do you have some links or something?
pufferpoison
Member
hey i need some help people. why won't anybody give me some helpful info. I've read the article and it says nothing about other fish and stuff. C'mon ppl i've got fish dying and need help
The article linked in my response does not specifically call out clowns as the death magnets, because Brook infects all fish.
Some fish have a higher tolerance and there is even evidence suggesting tolerant fish will build a level of immunity after repeat exposures.
Unfortunately, there is no way around the following path(s):
1. Don't add any more clowns to your tanks, they are sensitive to Brook and Amyloo.
2. If your fish do not seem to be stressed or affected in any way, are eating well, are not discolored, are not breathing heavy: Leave them alone.
3. If you fish are breathing heavy, showing a white slimy coat on the dorsal area, follow the treatment procedures in the linked article.
Regardless of the current situation: don't buy any clowns for 6+ weeks and when you do; buy some that have been conditioned(well fed and acclimated to captivity). It is unfortunate, but many of the smaller clowns available to us arrive malnourished and very susceptible to disease.
fwiw Reef Central has a Disease Treatment Forum as well and "Brook" has a sticky thread of it's own:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=87
Some fish have a higher tolerance and there is even evidence suggesting tolerant fish will build a level of immunity after repeat exposures.
Unfortunately, there is no way around the following path(s):
1. Don't add any more clowns to your tanks, they are sensitive to Brook and Amyloo.
2. If your fish do not seem to be stressed or affected in any way, are eating well, are not discolored, are not breathing heavy: Leave them alone.
3. If you fish are breathing heavy, showing a white slimy coat on the dorsal area, follow the treatment procedures in the linked article.
Regardless of the current situation: don't buy any clowns for 6+ weeks and when you do; buy some that have been conditioned(well fed and acclimated to captivity). It is unfortunate, but many of the smaller clowns available to us arrive malnourished and very susceptible to disease.
fwiw Reef Central has a Disease Treatment Forum as well and "Brook" has a sticky thread of it's own:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=87
pufferpoison
Member
thank you very much traveller7. So it's possible to beat this disease without treating every fish and / or keeping the tank fishless for 2 months. THanks once again. i'm on my way to read that article now.
Possible, yes. Highly probable without further losses, difficult to ascertain from here. Having it cycle out on it's own is not the safest strategy, but given the time since first your first post on the subject: fish still alive, not showing symptoms, eating well, are a reasonable survival candidate.
You will need to be prepared to treat your fish at first symptoms. The problem here: is your eye attuned to spotting the symptoms early?
Make sure the fish are fed to saturation 3-5 times a day. They will need the reserves if they come down with something over the next few weeks. Increase small water change frequency as needed. If they are not eating like you expect, don't make excuses for them, they are likely sick.
Still avoid Brook and Amyloo sensitive fish for a good long time, months and months is best.
Keep in mind, Brook and Amlyoo can come back into your tank on any new and future purchases as well, not just clowns; hence a big reason to quarantine all purchases.
Best of luck.
If QT period is too short, yes. Most fish that host the parasite will at least show increased rate of respiration, possibly some skittishness, scratching and loss of appetite. They will just not behave properly.
End of the day, any addition to our systems is a means of introducing new problems, but proper QT procedures reduce a number of the issues and enable one to catch most problems in a system with much less livestock.
End of the day, any addition to our systems is a means of introducing new problems, but proper QT procedures reduce a number of the issues and enable one to catch most problems in a system with much less livestock.
Do you guys do any preventative treatments during QT? We usually treat for ich since that's the thing we've seen most of. Can pufferpoison treat for brook while the fish are in qt? As a preventive measure? Then he doesn't miss something little that ends up being something big later on.
Just wondering, and really hoping we can help this poor guy!
Just wondering, and really hoping we can help this poor guy!
pufferpoison
Member
Ok my only LFS didn't have formalin, but the next closest thing with a high yield of formaldahyde was either ick guard 2 by jungle (37%) or formalite 3, so i bought both. I used the ick guard to dip on of the clowns (i could only catch the one in the 46G) the one that wasn't dipped died that night. my clown has since been swimming around instead of staying on bottom and acting normal. Still haven't seen him eat, but i've set up a 10G QT tank that will be implimented during all new purchases and he will be going in there for a few months.
pufferpoison
Member
well this am the last clown was gasping for air and not looking well, i scooped him up and put him in the formaldahyde dip, he died shortly after.
pufferpoison
Member
well i've set up a 10G QT tank for future purchases. Now i've been told 2 different stories and need help with them. First i've been told if i remain CLownless in my 90G and 46G tanks for around 2 months, the disease should be gone (brook). 2nd i've been told that it has to be fishless for 2 months to get rid of it. None of my other fish are showing signs of anything. I need to know how to handle this.
If you want to be sure the disease is gone; fishless. There is no alternative.
If you want to gamble on the resistance level of new additions, you have 2+ months and will still require some level of luck.
Frankly, clown purchases this time of year are almost guaranteed to have to deal with Brook or Amyloo. Some species weather the parasites better then others. IMHO the species choice and purchase source will have significant impact on your success.
If you want to gamble on the resistance level of new additions, you have 2+ months and will still require some level of luck.
Frankly, clown purchases this time of year are almost guaranteed to have to deal with Brook or Amyloo. Some species weather the parasites better then others. IMHO the species choice and purchase source will have significant impact on your success.
pufferpoison
Member
I would love to treat all the fish but like in my 90G tank, it's full of LR and corals and would be nearly impossible to take everything out to catch the fish without signifigant losses. I have two cleaner shrimp in there and will be running a UV Sterilizer (turbo twist 18W with a 104GPH pump) and the other fish in the 90G are a yellow tang, a blue tang and a LM blenny which all are eating very, very well and show to signs of the disease. WHy is this time of year so bad for clowns and when is a good time? I asked many questions on here about clowns before i purchased any and never not once did anybody chime in on this disease.
Did experienced folks ever not recommend Quarantine for new clowns?
Not everyone on RC reads every post, buys clowns year round, or follows a proper QT regimen. Most folks have a few clowns die, rationalize the event, and move on without really digging into the causes. Anemone purchases are far worse.
IME winter and summer are stressful shipping times around the world and disease runs rampant. QT everything in a fully cycled and non stressful environment.
Take it for what it is, my opinion.
Not everyone on RC reads every post, buys clowns year round, or follows a proper QT regimen. Most folks have a few clowns die, rationalize the event, and move on without really digging into the causes. Anemone purchases are far worse.
IME winter and summer are stressful shipping times around the world and disease runs rampant. QT everything in a fully cycled and non stressful environment.
Take it for what it is, my opinion.
sarahkucera
New member
I'm sorry that you've just learned a very expensive lesson about quarantining all new arrivals.
I think what you should do is to be patient and not add any other fish, inverts, corals or anything to your tank for at least 2 months. Run the UV sterilizer and let things settle down.
After things have settled down, go find a better LFS and try to get larger and more mature tank bred clowns from them. Make them check the date that the clowns were purchased and buy some clowns that have been in their system and eating well for a while. Have the LFS feed the clowns in front of you so that you can observe that they are eating heartily. Quarantine them and then pray to the fish gods before putting them in the display tank.
Just my .02.
Good luck.
I'm sorry you lost your clowns. I've got two percs and I would be torn apart if they died, they're like two little happy puppy dogs.
Just thought of a question, partly for pufferpoison and partly for me. Is brook and the other disease you mentioned an issue for clowns regardless of tank bred or wild caught? Or does it just affect the wc clowns?
Maybe I'm answering my own questions with this next thought...
I guess even if it does generally affect wc clowns, it could still be transfered to the tank bred clowns if they're put into a tank at the lfs (or home) that's had fish with brook, or if they're currently housed with wc fish. Am I on the right track?
I'm wanting to add some clowns to a 75 we just finished cycling. With this being a bad time of the year maybe I should wait and put them in last, that way, if they do have any issues like this they will be the last fish to be in QT, and I don't have to leave that fishless for 2 months.
Pufferpoison, I hope I'm not out of place asking these questions here, but I'm hoping they will be helpful to you too.
Maybe I'm answering my own questions with this next thought...
I guess even if it does generally affect wc clowns, it could still be transfered to the tank bred clowns if they're put into a tank at the lfs (or home) that's had fish with brook, or if they're currently housed with wc fish. Am I on the right track?
I'm wanting to add some clowns to a 75 we just finished cycling. With this being a bad time of the year maybe I should wait and put them in last, that way, if they do have any issues like this they will be the last fish to be in QT, and I don't have to leave that fishless for 2 months.
Pufferpoison, I hope I'm not out of place asking these questions here, but I'm hoping they will be helpful to you too.
Brook, Amyloo, "ich", etc., can all be transferred by a fish, coral, tank water, net, or less.
The parasites are around year round, but we do see increased occurrences during certain times of year and infecting some species with greater frequency.
Any fish can be a host for the parasites.
Captive Bred specimens that have never come into contact with any of the above can quickly be infected when exposed.
Quarantine everything in a suitable system (not a barebottomed hospital) if you want to be safe, and I do mean everything.
The parasites are around year round, but we do see increased occurrences during certain times of year and infecting some species with greater frequency.
Any fish can be a host for the parasites.
Captive Bred specimens that have never come into contact with any of the above can quickly be infected when exposed.
Quarantine everything in a suitable system (not a barebottomed hospital) if you want to be safe, and I do mean everything.
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