Why can’t I get even beginner corals too grow?

[MarlinHooker]

So about 1.5 yrs ago I took down my 200 system and setup a 60 g cube. Went through a classic cycling startup process using dry rock and sand. Once stable I transferred several clown fish and 4 of my red BTAs from my old tank - I sold 6 others to my LGS ad they were way to big for this tank. Once purple coralline algare started appearing on the rocks i knew I should be good to start introducing some new frags. Well every single frag I’ve tried - 3 war corals and a couple of other hardy beginner frags all have died within about 4-6 weeks of introduction. They just bleach out and die. The 4 BTAs as well as a couple of other small fish I added have been thriving since introduction without issue. tank parameters are stable and the system is on an ATO and auto water change system plus protein skimmer and no fuge. There is not a hint of algae in the tank as well. Lighting is from 1 AI Prime 16HD led light. Can anyone suggest what is going on and what I should try next? Thx!

 

[kharmaguru]

Just spitballing thoughts...

1 prime on a 60 cube seems kind of low lighting however war corals are usually fine with that. Where did the BTA's move themselves, to the top? Have you checked with a par meter?

Bleaching out is usually too much light, too hot, low nutrients combined with high alkalinity.

What kind of flow have you got?

 

[jjmg]

What is the settings on the AI Prime? It seems you would need to have it cranked up pretty high in that size tank to get coverage over more than just directly under the light. I would thing about about 12 inches above the water to help get the spread. Over my 15x15 cube I'm running my AI prime at 40% for the blues and 7% for the white. 0 for green and red.

 

[MarlinHooker]

Just spitballing thoughts...

1 prime on a 60 cube seems kind of low lighting however war corals are usually fine with that. Where did the BTA's move themselves, to the top? Have you checked with a par meter?

Bleaching out is usually too much light, too hot, low nutrients combined with high alkalinity.

What kind of flow have you got?

That's why I bought 2 orginally but then i watched the testing that the guys from BRS did on this LED and they concluded that 1 would be suficient for LPS so I just did the one. The 4 BTAs are all in different places, the LED is 10" from the surface and one is 7" below the surface, 1 is 10" below and the other two are near the bottom at about 20" below. My rockwork is like a big tree in the center of the tank with branches out the sides. I don't have a par meter & my LFS doesn't either. I'll check ALK again, lights are set to start at noon each day, ramp to about 50% or so & then ramp down to zero by 10pm. Besides the 2 returns , each about 300 GPH I have 2 Vortech MP10s on opposite sides of teh tank, one high & 1 low

 

[Genetics]

Do you have a picture of the aquarium? It’s really helps.

 

[kharmaguru]

That's why I bought 2 orginally but then i watched the testing that the guys from BRS did on this LED and they concluded that 1 would be suficient for LPS so I just did the one. The 4 BTAs are all in different places, the LED is 10" from the surface and one is 7" below the surface, 1 is 10" below and the other two are near the bottom at about 20" below. My rockwork is like a big tree in the center of the tank with branches out the sides. I don't have a par meter & my LFS doesn't either. I'll check ALK again, lights are set to start at noon each day, ramp to about 50% or so & then ramp down to zero by 10pm. Besides the 2 returns , each about 300 GPH I have 2 Vortech MP10s on opposite sides of teh tank, one high & 1 low

Maybe the 'not a hint of algae' is the red flag but I would expect that anemones would show some stress with no nutrients as well (maybe I'm wrong about that). The fact that they didn't all move to the top would suggest you have enough light. (If I had two on that tank I would probably still run both at reduced output myself).

Could you give us a full rundown of whatever you test for, plus temperature and salinity?

 

[MarlinHooker]

I test salinity, Alk, Mag, Ca. tank is at 78 +/- 1 deg, salinity is 1.026

 

[kharmaguru]

I test salinity, Alk, Mag, Ca. tank is at 78 +/- 1 deg, salinity is 1.026

I meant the results of the things your test for, lol. You don't test phosphate or nitrate?

 

[Genetics]

Looks clean. You ever accidentally use copper?

 

[mellotang]

Probably too clean

Need sone More bio diversity

 

[MarlinHooker]

Probably too clean

Need sone More bio diversity

such as?

 

[MarlinHooker]

I don't usually test for PO4 or nitrates once teh tank has cycled & is stable unless I start to see algae grow. Ca 450, Alk 143, Mag 720. I tested Po4 & it was unreadable

 

[MarlinHooker]

Looks clean. You ever accidentally use copper?

no and I doubt my BTAs would be thriving if I had ...?

 

[kharmaguru]

Your mag is really low. I'd aim for 1300.

Modern wisdom says the days of zero/zero nitrates and phosphates is a bad thing leading to struggling corals, unbalanced biome, and the worst - dinoflagellates. I think BRS recommends .03ppm phosphates and 5ppm nitrates as targets but most systems do fine with higher numbers. If you don't ever get any green film on your glass, you are pushing your luck IMO.

 

[MarlinHooker]

Your mag is really low. I'd aim for 1300.

Modern wisdom says the days of zero/zero nitrates and phosphates is a bad thing leading to struggling corals, unbalanced biome, and the worst - dinoflagellates. I think BRS recommends .03ppm phosphates and 5ppm nitrates as targets but most systems do fine with higher numbers. If you don't ever get any green film on your glass, you are pushing your luck IMO.

so what do you do to raise nitrates & phosphates slightly?

 

[mtnbike101]

As above, Mg is low.
I'd suspect with no sign of algae that your P04 is too low and NO3 is too low.
dKh and Ca look good

 

[mtnbike101]

so what do you do to raise nitrates & phosphates slightly?

Feeding more often will help. Pellets seems to raise P04 and frozen seems to raise N03.

I have to dose both NO3 and P04 daily, but I'd not suggest that just yet.

Depending upon the frags, insufficient light may also be an issue. I have four Hydra 32HD's and four T5's over my 100g, but it is all Acropora.

 

[kharmaguru]

so what do you do to raise nitrates & phosphates slightly?

If you want extreme control, there are products for dosing both (yep bizarre but that's where we are). Brightwell neophos and neonitro are popular (I've used the neonitro). I think @griss is using an ESV product for nitrates.

Currently I just feed reefroids for phosphates ( I hover around .02 - .03) and went the long way for nitrates by dosing Ammonia. I use Old Country 6% pure ammonia from the hardware store at 1 drop per 10 gallons. I've been using it for close to a year and I'm at 15ppm nitrate as of today so I may take a break for a bit.

You could also add more fish and corals and feed both a couple times a week and that would likely be the most enjoyable way.

Whatever way you choose it takes a while to get a stable result as the sytem will quickly use them up - 3ppm nitrate today, back to zero tomorrow.

 

[griss]

If you want extreme control, there are products for dosing both (yep bizarre but that's where we are). Brightwell neophos and neonitro are popular (I've used the neonitro). I think @griss is using an ESV product for nitrates.

Currently I just feed reefroids for phosphates ( I hover around .02 - .03) and went the long way for nitrates by dosing Ammonia. I use Old Country 6% pure ammonia from the hardware store at 1 drop per 10 gallons. I've been using it for close to a year and I'm at 15ppm nitrate as of today so I may take a break for a bit.

You could also add more fish and corals and feed both a couple times a week and that would likely be the most enjoyable way.

Whatever way you choose it takes a while to get a stable result as the sytem will quickly use them up - 3ppm nitrate today, back to zero tomorrow.

Yep, been successful in getting my nitrates up using the ESV product. I haven't dosed anything to increase phosphates as I'm trying to get them down currently. After getting the nitrates up, I'm only having to dose about 1-2mL daily to maintain the nitrates between 5-10 ppm.

Also, @Nanook actually has sulfur denitrators to lower nitrates. He has a pretty high fish load and feeds fairly heavily. So, he doesn't need to add nitrates

 

[ajoe]

Zero algae is a clue. It looks a bit sterile. Corals need zooxanthellae to survive. Without they won't last long.