Why can't i keep acropora?

[Vidofner]

I have had my tank running for a little over a year now but I have never been able to keep acroporas for some reason. Most I get die after a while and the ones that survive never grow or atleast not noticeably. Been asking for help on my swedish forums but havn't gotten any closer to figuring out what's wrong. I'm not even able to keep the really simple acroporas like the bali green slimer (acropora yongei).

Before I was having troubles with LPS that was skinny and bone hard and soft corals that had all their polyps retracted but they are thriving at the moment

All my water parameters are kept stable with dosing pump

Water parameters:
Calcium: 400
Magnesium: 1290
KH: 8.3
Nitrate: 2,5
Phosphate: 0.03
Temperature: 24 C (75 F)
Density: 1.025
Potassium: 390

Tank parameter:
Tank volume: 400 liter (105 US gallon)
Circulation: 2x Tunze 6095 (each pumps 2000-9500 liter per hour which would be around 530-2500 US gallon and they are configured to run around 70-100% power)
Lamp: Pacific Sun Hyperion R2 (150w x 2) (LED)
Skimmer: AquaC EV-180
I previously used biopellets but now the reactor is only used for aluminum based phosphate remover and some times activated carbon. I don't use biopellets anymore since I don't get any nitrates. The nitrates i have is added manually with saltpeter (nitric is another translation for saltpeter if you don't know what I mean)

Dosing:
Fauna Marin UltraMin S: 2 ml a day (maybe in average 5 days a week)
Fauna Marin UltraOrganic: 4 ml a day (maybe in average 5 days a week)
Fauna Marin Color Elements x3: 6ml a week for each bottle
Salt: Tropic Marine
Balling: Fauna Marin balling salts + trace elements

I appreachiate all tips

 

[Allmost]

how do they die ?

they loose tissue ?

their tissue goes white ?

or do you wake up one day to see dead skeleton ?

do you test KH and CA++ daily to make sure they are stable ?

 

[Vidofner]

how do they die ?

they loose tissue ?

their tissue goes white ?

or do you wake up one day to see dead skeleton ?

do you test KH and CA++ daily to make sure they are stable ?

They lose tissue startign from the base and working its way up.
No I don't test it every day... I have done so some selected times but not usually.

 

[kevin_e]

Is salinity stable? Is alkalinity stable?

I would test those over the course of a few days and see if they spike through out the day.

 

[MisterP]

How many fish?

How often do you feed them?

Why are you adding Nitrate ?

 

[scrambler1880]

"Why can't I keep acropora?" .... For the same reason they are sooo cool when we can keep them: 'cause they are hard!!!

Your parameters look pretty close to fine I shoot for 420 Ca and 8-9 DkH with Mg around 1280 so may not be that could be a stability thing or it could be something else entirely, great article by Sanjay Joshi (a true sps pro by any measure) in the latest issue of reefs online magazine talking about some of the struggles that he had with RTN recently really made me appreciate how many variables there really are...

 

[ReeferBill]

I had the same problem so I stepped up my water changes to 20gallons every 2 weeks and I add 32 ounces of fritzyme9 each time and the corals love it. Try some easier sps corals like montipora , stylophora, birds nest ,cats paw and pocillapora....Did you place in good flow and at the top of your reef?

 

[mark54321]

If you do some research , there is some evidence that some corals have adverse reaction to aluminium based phosphate removers. Maybe you should switch to regular GFO instead.

 

[Reef264]

If you do some research , there is some evidence that some corals have adverse reaction to aluminium based phosphate removers. Maybe you should switch to regular GFO instead.

+1. I mean... are you tumbling the "Aluminum Based" media in the bio pellet reactor?If so we may have the culprit.Temperature may play a roll in this as well.Hard to say really.

9 times out of 10, in my experience, losing tissue off of Acropora's was an Alkalinity swing.The other 1 out of 10 was rapid reduction of Phosphates due to running too much GFO.

 

[Vidofner]

Is salinity stable? Is alkalinity stable?

I would test those over the course of a few days and see if they spike through out the day.

Yes and yes. Salinity has never gone over or below 1.025 and alkalinity is kept in check by dosing pump throughout the day. I guess i could try measuring them over a whole day but even if something did change throughout the day i couldnt really do much about it could i? I Mean i already dose several times a day

How many fish?

How often do you feed them?

Why are you adding Nitrate ?

2 clown, 2 tangs, 2 blennies, 2 anthias, 1 mandarin, 1 goby. I feed them 2 times a day.
I add nitrate to not have 0 nitrate and to keep my LPS happy

I had the same problem so I stepped up my water changes to 20gallons every 2 weeks and I add 32 ounces of fritzyme9 each time and the corals love it. Try some easier sps corals like montipora , stylophora, birds nest ,cats paw and pocillapora....Did you place in good flow and at the top of your reef?

I do about 20 gal waterchanges every 2 weeks aswell. I have some easier sps corals that are thriving. My Seriatopora hystrix is huge and my stylophora and bird nest are also doing well. I have one montipora (confusa) that grown like hell but my other two dont grow at all. My montipora digitata dont even show any polyps

If you do some research , there is some evidence that some corals have adverse reaction to aluminium based phosphate removers. Maybe you should switch to regular GFO instead.

I though about this before but then i remembered that i didn't even need to run phosphate remover in the first months and I was having the same problems then

 

[Crackem]

Do you make your own water? Maybe high tds or chloramines

 

[Vidofner]

Do you make your own water? Maybe high tds or chloramines

I just changed all the filters in my RO/DI unit and Stockholm has one of the most clean tapwater in the world. Some people even use tapwater without using RO/DI and are able to keep acros

 

[ormet]

Hello Vidofner!

Good idea to get help from the experts here at RC, i think you will get a better response here then on our local forum.

I think that you already got some advice there tho, stop all additives. There is just no need for them, additives are a way to fine tune the tank when you have everything else under control. Skim, feed the fish, do water changes and make sure that alk/ca/mg is stable. GFO and GAC i would also keep.

Also, more flow. I have 2 Tunze 6095 on a tank almost half your size. Running on 20v. I am planning on adding more flow.

I have yet to see a good acropora tank using that hyperion light. I have seen tanks with acropora surviving, but never anything stellar. What settings do you have it on? How many percent on the different channels?

The Seriatopora that is working for you is a SPS that have no problem with much lower light then most Acro's. They are also just all around more hardy then Acro's.

Another thing, and i have asked you on our local forum, i think you need to dip for AEFW. If AEFW attack your Acro's they will be in bad health and more prone to die from STN is my guess.

These are just my musings, feel free to correct me

 

[Vidofner]

Hello Vidofner!

Good idea to get help from the experts here at RC, i think you will get a better response here then on our local forum.

I think that you already got some advice there tho, stop all additives. There is just no need for them, additives are a way to fine tune the tank when you have everything else under control. Skim, feed the fish, do water changes and make sure that alk/ca/mg is stable. GFO and GAC i would also keep.

Also, more flow. I have 2 Tunze 6095 on a tank almost half your size. Running on 20v. I am planning on adding more flow.

I have yet to see a good acropora tank using that hyperion light. I have seen tanks with acropora surviving, but never anything stellar. What settings do you have it on? How many percent on the different channels?

The Seriatopora that is working for you is a SPS that have no problem with much lower light then most Acro's. They are also just all around more hardy then Acro's.

Another thing, and i have asked you on our local forum, i think you need to dip for AEFW. If AEFW attack your Acro's they will be in bad health and more prone to die from STN is my guess.

These are just my musings, feel free to correct me

I have been thinking of adding to the circulation i just thought i was above normal need of circulation and that it wasn't needed but i'll definetily will look into it more.

I've also been a bit suspicious about my lighting and been woundering if it really does the job. You might remember that I've been asking about this on our local forums but when I speak to the guys in the aquarium store they always say that it's enough lighting. Im currently running the lamp 11 hours a day with a 120 min long sunrise and sunset. All my channels are on 100% except for the white which is running at 25%
Which ramp would you recommend? I think a ramp with a combination of LED and t5 would be great to really spread the light.

 

[ormet]

I honestly don't think the Acropora die because of the lights and the settings you run it at. I am however not confident that the Hyperion is very good.

The same lfs/guys (i guess) swore that my Maxspect Razor 160w would be more then enough for my 225L. And i guess it was enough for the corals to survive. Even grow a little.
But 3 weeks in with my new ATI led/t5 hybrid the changes are dramatic. Even tho i am battling aefw and dipping them weekly, all my SPS have really started to grow like i have never experienced before. I can wholeheartedly recommend it.

I have no experience with the high end led lights like Radion/ati/ghl etc. They might be just as good and something to have a look at.

With that said .. i still think there is another reason for your failures with Acropora then the light. But if you want to throw money at the problem, come join the ATI LED Powermodul club

 

[sahin]

Hello there.

Having looked at your water parameters...I can say there is nothing there to suggest any problems with the parameters...Mg and Ca can be a little higher, but not a problem at all.

Once you have checked for pests like AEFW and Redbugs and confirmed that you dont have them, here is a plan I suggest for you:

1. Stop dosing all of those additives (apart from the Balling Light components).
You want my honest opinion? Most of them are NOT needed. In some circumstances additives can be useful.

2. Water changes: Carry out 20% water changes every 3 days at least 5 times. Then carry out 20% each week. MAKE sure water is thoroughly mixed and temp etc brought up, salinity is matched etc etc. TMC salt (Pro reef) tends to have VERY low Alk, so make sure you test the freshly made water.

3. Reduce the Phosphate remover to 1/3 of the recommended amount on packaging. Make sure the flow through the phosphate remover is not too fast. See packaging for flow rate etc. Excessive use of amount of Phosphate remover or excessive flow, both can cause RTN/STN in your SPS.

4. Feed the fish twice a day with a variety of foods. - As long as you are doing the water changes and keep an eye on on NO3 and PO4 levels and they dont change then keep up the feeding.

Honestly, if you do ALL of the above, I cant see how within 3 weeks your tank shouldnt make a recovery and for SPS corals to recover and start to grow.

 

[sahin]

Forgot to mention that your lights are fine. Certainly capable of growing and colouring SPS at least to a decent level. I say this with the assumption that you arent running them 100% for like 12 hours or something like that.

I didnt mention it directly, but stop the nitrate addition as well. Let the fish foods feed the tank.

 

[FernandoReef]

Also, what you are looking for right now is stability. Stop dosing and try to keep those parameters stable and you will be good to go.

 

[Vidofner]

Hello there.

Having looked at your water parameters...I can say there is nothing there to suggest any problems with the parameters...Mg and Ca can be a little higher, but not a problem at all.

Once you have checked for pests like AEFW and Redbugs and confirmed that you dont have them, here is a plan I suggest for you:

1. Stop dosing all of those additives (apart from the Balling Light components).
You want my honest opinion? Most of them are NOT needed. In some circumstances additives can be useful.

2. Water changes: Carry out 20% water changes every 3 days at least 5 times. Then carry out 20% each week. MAKE sure water is thoroughly mixed and temp etc brought up, salinity is matched etc etc. TMC salt (Pro reef) tends to have VERY low Alk, so make sure you test the freshly made water.

3. Reduce the Phosphate remover to 1/3 of the recommended amount on packaging. Make sure the flow through the phosphate remover is not too fast. See packaging for flow rate etc. Excessive use of amount of Phosphate remover or excessive flow, both can cause RTN/STN in your SPS.

4. Feed the fish twice a day with a variety of foods. - As long as you are doing the water changes and keep an eye on on NO3 and PO4 levels and they dont change then keep up the feeding.

Honestly, if you do ALL of the above, I cant see how within 3 weeks your tank shouldnt make a recovery and for SPS corals to recover and start to grow.

Thanks for great input!

1. Ok i will. Does this include Ultra MinS since thats mainly to help sps?
2. Could I skip that one? I did a 50% waterchange at new years and I've never skipped on my 2 week changes. I live in an apartment with my wife and one year old so doing water changes every 3 days would most likely **** of the wife
3. I will do that. I also think i'll change to normal GFO instead of aluminum based remover onces I've depleted the bucket of remover i got.
4. Already do this

Lights are running 11 hours a day with 2 hours sunrise and sunset other than that (7hours) the lamp is on for 100% except for the white channel.

Should I really let the nitrate level drop to 0? Because that's what's going to happen if I stop adding nitrates

 

[sahin]

Thanks for great input!

1. Ok i will. Does this include Ultra MinS since thats mainly to help sps?
2. Could I skip that one? I did a 50% waterchange at new years and I've never skipped on my 2 week changes. I live in an apartment with my wife and one year old so doing water changes every 3 days would most likely **** of the wife
3. I will do that. I also think i'll change to normal GFO instead of aluminum based remover onces I've depleted the bucket of remover i got.
4. Already do this

Lights are running 11 hours a day with 2 hours sunrise and sunset other than that (7hours) the lamp is on for 100% except for the white channel.

Should I really let the nitrate level drop to 0? Because that's what's going to happen if I stop adding nitrates

1. MinS: I would stop it for at least 1 month. I just read up on the FM website that this product "supports a healthy bacterial population"....that suggests this potion has amino acids as well as some sort of an organic carbon source.

2. I can understand about ****ing off the wife...I live in an apartment too (on the 8th floor and have two young children...one just started kindergarten). Are you able to change the water at night when the baby is sleeping? -Or even carry out 20% every 5 days...the reason I ask you to do these water changes is because when tanks have problems like you describe, it is water changes IME that has helped the tank recover more than ANYTHING else.

3. I currently use GFO, but thinking of switching to Aluminium based remover which I used to use. Al based PO4 remover is so much cleaner, doesnt discolour the water etc. But switching over may help.

Your light profile sounds about right.