Why can't I keep shrimp?

[Bill14]

I've had my 90g reef up for a little over a year now and one of my most frustrating problems has been my inability to keep a shrimp alive. I love watching the various types of shrimp in the tank and would love to keep some, but I'm not going to try again unless I'm reasonably sure I've identified a possible problem.

Here's the story. A few months into my tank, I got a cleaner shrimp that was actually my longest lived of the shrimp I've tried. It was doing well for a few months. I decided to add a second because I found them fascinating. Within a few weeks, one of them disappeared. Then in the next few weeks, the other went missing. Since then I've tried a couple others (at different times) and they only last a few weeks. I've tried small groups of peppermint shrimp on two different occasions and again within a few weeks, they all went missing. My initial thought was a predator in the tank. So, while putting a goby through quarantine, I bought him a pistol shrimp buddy. They paired up and were living happily in my quarantine tank for about a month, then one day the shrimp went missing. I've since taken the quarantine tank down and didn't find anything suspicious. I've also just reaquascaped my tank which involved removing all live rock temporarily and again I didn't find anything (although I could have easily missed something as I didn't crush each rock in search of it's contents.). I suppose there could have been a shrimp predator in both tanks, but I find this unlikely and I'd like to evaluate other possibilities.

I've drip acclimated all shrimp additions for at least an hour and a half. Most of the time longer. My tank parameters have been in this range since the first few months:
Temp: 77-79
pH: 8.0-8.3
NO3: 0-2 ppm
PO4: has been as high as .11 ppm

My only additives are daily two part additions (Randy's DIY recipe) and weekly 10-15% water changes.

I've included all the info I can think of that would be relevant. I measure other things, but I don't know what info to include. Are their other parameters that would be helpful to know? What things are shrimp sensitive to?

Any and all questions/suggestions/comments are welcome. I just want to get to the bottom of this. Thanks in advance.

 

[L8 2 RISE]

It could be that you have copper in your tank...

 

[chris55014]

Could be a calcium or alk. problem.

 

[sasharotty]

Do you ever see remains? I agree could be a copper issue.Do you have any coral that thrive, did you buy the tank used or any equipment that could leach copper.I had a problem w/ a 90 gallon same problem could not keep any coral or inverts alive and found out my sump i bought used once was used to qt and was a hospital tank that was treated w/ copper.If you check your calcium levels and they are good could be a copper issue.

 

[Bill14]

Thanks for all the responses.

Calcium levels are currently steady at 420 ppm. I haven't always monitored calcium, but the lowest I can recall seeing it was 350. What level of calcium causes issues for shrimp.

Alkalinity currently stays between 10-11 dKh. Again, not something I used to monitor consistently, but I do now.

I've never seen the remains. I've seen the cleaner shrimps molt before. In fact, the all usually molt within a few weeks. Could this be a sign of something or just a coincedence?

All my LPS and softies do well. I've tried some SPS and they all slowly died. I found my light levels to be insufficient after measuring with my clubs PAR meter.

I did buy the tank used, but the previous owner bought it from a LFS and only had it up a couple weeks. I didn't specifically ask if he ever used copper in the tank and I've never measured it. I can see if anyone in my club has a test kit.

 

[Korrine]

Did you end up testing for copper?

 

[Bill14]

I'm still trying to get together with the guy who has a kit. Our schedules did not align well this week. If I can't catch up with him early this week, I'll try to find someone else in my club that has one.

 

[E.intheC]

i'm thinking it's possibly a copper issue as well. What fish do you have? Some fish leave inverts alone for weeks/months or more, and then turn.. slight possibility, but it's worth investigating.

Are you buying your shrimp from the same store?

 

[Bill14]

Finally got the copper test done at a LFS and there was nothing measurable.

For each shrimp I had a pair of ocellaris clowns, a midas blenny, and 3 ignitus anthias.

My current stocking is the pair of clowns, a kole tang, and a Wheeler's watchman goby. The anthias died off one by one and the blenny was just recently beat to death by the kole.

I have purchased all the shrimp from the same store.

The LFS recommended checking my iodine levels but I've read conflicting information about the importance of iodine to shrimp.

Any other ideas or any other info I can provide?

 

[E.intheC]

do you check the salinity of the water the shrimp are brought home in? Sometimes the LFS's will keep their water at hyposalinity levels, and even a 1-2 hour acclimation (IMO) can be problematic at times. Some stores just aren't good at keeping shrimp alive, for whatever reason. You might want to try another store, if you can.

I'm not positive of any reason this might be happening, unfortunately. I understand your frustration.

From your signature and description, it looks like you have a nice setup.

 

[Shmax]

It doesn't sound like copper to me.. unless you're losing snails/crabs/corals too. It sounds like they're disappearing right around time to molt, which would indicate iodine. How often are you doing water changes? What brand of salt? I've always dosed iodine, about 8 drops Kent iodine daily, and never had any problems with keeping shrimp.... well, other than my CBS eating some peppermints that is.

 

[Bill14]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14805470#post14805470 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E.intheC
do you check the salinity of the water the shrimp are brought home in? Sometimes the LFS's will keep their water at hyposalinity levels, and even a 1-2 hour acclimation (IMO) can be problematic at times. Some stores just aren't good at keeping shrimp alive, for whatever reason. You might want to try another store, if you can.

I'm not positive of any reason this might be happening, unfortunately. I understand your frustration.

From your signature and description, it looks like you have a nice setup.

No, I've never checked the salinity they are being kept in at the store. Another nice store just opened in the area, so my next attempt may be from them.

 

[Bill14]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14805697#post14805697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shmax
It doesn't sound like copper to me.. unless you're losing snails/crabs/corals too. It sounds like they're disappearing right around time to molt, which would indicate iodine. How often are you doing water changes? What brand of salt? I've always dosed iodine, about 8 drops Kent iodine daily, and never had any problems with keeping shrimp.... well, other than my CBS eating some peppermints that is.

Snails and corals seem to be doing okay. I do 15 gallon water changes once a week. Occasionally I go two weeks between changes. I've used OceanPure and OceanPure Pro for the entire time I've had the tank. I've been contemplating switching to Reef Crystals. My alkalinity in fresh mixed varies batch to batch enough that I wonder what other parameters are varied as well. I've never dosed iodine or tested my levels.

 

[E.intheC]

I use Reef Crystals. I think it's the best, IMO.. it could be an iodine problem as well. That makes sense.

 

[E.intheC]

I use Reef Crystals. I think it's the best, IMO.. it could be an iodine problem as well. That makes sense.

 

[Shmax]

If I understand it properly, biologically available iodine is removed by your skimmer, so it needs replenished. 15 gallon weekly water changes should be more than enough to replenish those levels, assuming the salt brand you're using has a decent amount in it. I have no experience with that brand, so I'm no help there, but it certainly sounds like an iodine deficiency to me. If I were in your shoes I would look to either switching brands, or grabbing an iodine supplement, or both, and see if you have better outcomes.

 

[Bill14]

Thanks for the input guys. I think I've decided to make the salt switch. I may try to locate an iodine test kit because it would really be nice to confirm that as the issue, but what you are describing makes sense.

 

[RBU1]

I am having the same problem so I am tagging along so please let me know how you make out.

 

[Bill14]

I bought a box of Reef Crystals today so I'll be making the switch by using the new salt for my weekly water changes. It will take a few months before my tank is primarily Reef Crystals. I may up my water changes to twice a week to pick up the pace, but going slow would probably be better.

It appears from reading this article that shrimp do need iodine. It appears it's a must as part of their diet, but he couldn't find any information about their reliance on it from the water column. So, I'm not sure switching salt mixes will solve the problem. One thing I got to thinking is that each time I had shrimp, I had carnivores and omnivores for fish, so I was feeding primarily frozen mysis and spirulina enhanced brine shrimp. I'm not sure about the iodine content of either of those shrimp. I now have a tang, so I'm feeding much more herbivore material. That alone could solve the problem.

I'm going to wait a few more months to try one again. I'll come back and update when I do. If anyone else has any ideas, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[boaconrp]

I had that same problem, and all my parameters tested good. Then I found out that my hydrometer was way off, and that my salinity was too low. I replaced it with a refractometer and have had no problems since. I don't know if that helps, but it was quite a surprise to me.