Why can't I keep SPS - am I missing something?

SugarFox03

SugarFox03

Animal Behaviorist
Howdy everyone! I have tried many times (all unsuccessfully) at keeping SPS corals. I have spent close to $200 on now dead corals. (So if I have offered to buy SPS corals from you lately, and bailed - this is why!) At first I thought it was my nitrates, until I purchased a new nitrate test and realized my trates were perfectly fine. I then thought it was the light bulb, so I bought a 150w Gieseman 12.k that sits approx. 3 inches from the water. That didnt fix anything. Then I thought it was my pH. That's now steady at 8.0-8.2 (reading on my controller, which seems to be a bit low after calibrating anyway). I drip kalk in my top off. My calcium & alk are perfect. Test for phosphates, ammonia, nitrite are undetectable. pH is stable, temp stays between 79-81. I do a 5 gal water change weekly, using bottled distilled water and Reef Crystals salt mix. Could this be it? I am debating switching to Tropic Marin, but want to use up the remainder of my Reef Crystals - unless thats my problem?

Everything else in the tank is flourishing. My clams are getting huge, my softies are growing like weeds, my sun coral doesn't close at all, my fish are healthy.

I have lost 3 monti caps, 1 monti digi, 4 acros, 1 mille, and now my pink birdsnest is almost completely bleached.

I have plenty of flow thanks to my Quiet 1 2200 return pump and my Tunze Nanostream 6025.

Any ideas here, something I am over looking? The system has been set up now for approx. 15 months. I did a tank switch a few months ago so I could have a sump/refugium and a little more water volume to help stability. I have 10 lbs live sand, about 10 lbs live rock rubble and lots of chaeto in the fuge.

I have not changed out my actinics since I bought the fixture. I just thought about that. I have had it a year. Could this be it? I really just use the actinics to see at night, my MH is on from 10-6 every day.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!
 
my softies are growing like weeds,
Click to expand...
IMO this setup is way to small to keep softies and sps together-even running carbon 24/7.
My calcium & alk are perfect.
Click to expand...
Can u share some numbers.
How about mag?
my sun coral doesn't close at all
Click to expand...
Def high nutrients. There's no reason why a sun polyp would be open 24/7 unless there's just way to much food in the water column.

Its very unusual that u can't even keep a cap- there's gotta be some warfare going on.
Slow down on your feedings - run some carbon and skim wet.
Those are my suggestions. Hope that helps.
 
I dunno about the softy thing. It really depends on what softies you've got. I've got mushrooms and Sinularia Dura (Cabbage Coral) and I know that they're all pretty harmless corals chemically. If you've got a lot of other Sinularia and other leathers and stuff, I know the can be hard on SPS, especially in a small system.

I wouldn't worry about your Mag if you can keep your calcium and alk steady. Even if you couldn't, those really arn't important things to just keep SPS alive, they're only important to encourage growth. I have kept SPS for a long time without adding anything at all as far as alk and calcium additives, short of water changes, naad never had problems, just didn't see good growth.

It sounds like a nutrient issue to me... That combined with what sounds like you nuking them with lighting in your tank. Have you properly acclimated the corals to the bright bright light shining down on your small tank? If not, they could certainly bleach from that, then die off from the nutrients.

I agree to skim wet for a while, maybe throw some purigen in there... Who knows... Stability is the most important thing. Maybe you should also try some LFS salt water for a while? I've been using Barrier Reef's NSW and my tanks have loved it. Salinity and pH are spot on, calcium and alk are low for tank conditions but perfect for NSW levels.
 
I only feed 3 times a week in the mornings before work. Nothing really is left uneaten, as either the hermits or blood shrimp pick it up.

The sun coral I feed once a week or so, frozen mysis - it's open from about 8 pm to 9 am. It starts to close when my Nanostream turns on (but I am normally gone by then - so to me, it's always open) :)

My rics have gone from 2 to 10 in the time I've had them, approx. 8 months, my armegeddon zoas have gone from 3 to 20 in the 5 months or so I have had them. I can't track my fire in the sky zoas, although they are taking up a moch larger area than they first did. My gsp covers everything it touches. My frogspawn (I know, not a softie) has grown 3 new heads in the 6-7 months I've had it. My acan frag has grown 2 new heads since I have had it, about 2-3 months or so. I have no leather corals. To me, this is growing like weeds...since my sps always dies.

For numbers, I have everything in my macbook which is out in my truck, so I'll get that later. My calcium stays around 450, and I think my alk is 9 something? I have to check. I don't have a mag test.

Thanks for the suggestions though. I'll pick up some carbon tomorrow. How much and where's the best spot for it? I've honestly never run carbon. I have a thing of Purigen in the tank, been there a few weeks. Should I take that out?

I've pretty much given up on sps anyway...I would just like to know what I am doing wrong.
 
The metal halide being 3 inches from the waters surface could be another problem, along with temp swings. Stability is key. If you can maintain all your levels and properly acclimate corals to your lighting then you should have great results.

Hope that helps a little.

Just my .02

-Matthew
 
I need to get more info

What type of skimmer do you have?
how much skimmate does it pull a day?
how dark?

What brand light fixture do you have?

which other species of "softies" do you have, please be specific?

Can you get your hands on some R/O DI water instead of the distilled water?
 
Re: Why can't I keep SPS - am I missing something?

Howdy everyone! I have tried many times (all unsuccessfully) at keeping SPS corals.
Click to expand...

Apparently not for a lack of effort.

I hope these guys and gals on here can lend you a hand.
Sounds extremely frustrating.

There's alot of knowledge and helpful folks here.
I would venture if there is a problem/solution, they'll help you find it.

Good luck!

Tony
 
It's almost funny because I can't seem to keep or at least have LPS and softies (zoos) thrive in my big tank, only SPS.

Like Rogger said, maybe it's time to try another topoff water system?

To be honest with you, although many would disagree with me on this, I think that for the contents of your tank, your DKH and Ca levels are too high. I suppose the dKH is fine really, but the calcium is too high. Most people with SPS setups don't have their calcium up that high. NSW is like 380, most SPS keepers keep it around 420 or so because of the uptake. 450 might be fine though, all I'm saying for what you've got in the calcium is really high.
 
i maintain 520 cal, 1500 mag and 12dkh with no effects on the coral since it really just hampers growth if they are too low.

On my last tank the main issue i was having in keeping them was temp. My tank would swing up and down due to some chiller issues so im not sure if you are having any temp problems.
 
Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all the help!

Here's a list of all corals/inverts: frogspawn, hammer, zoas, mushrooms, ricordea, trumpet coral, sun coral, 3 clams (2 crocea, 1 maxima), cocoworm, xenia, yellow polyps, green star polyps, anthelia, alien eye acan echinata, cynarina...I think that's all.

The fixture is a Finnex, purchased from Nanotuners.
The skimmer is a Tunze Nano DOC 9005, pulls about 100 ml of medium/dark skimmate every 5-7 days. I'll admit I don't check it daily, and the 100 ml level is the first one noted on the cup.

I just moved the fixture closer to the water surface since I thought that maybe the issue was not enough light? It's been that close for about a month. I can move it up easily, it's hanging from the ceiling. I also have the top covered in egg crate that I painted black, I think that shields some of the light too?

Temp swings aren't much in the tank, it rarely gets below 80, will sometimes hit 79 at night. And rarely goes above 81. I have a heater programmed to turn on at 78 and a fan at 82 - controlled by the Reefkeeper 2. I don't have a chiller. I am looking for one since those draw a lot less power than my ac, so if we lose power sometime this season, I can still control the temp in the tank.

I'll pick up some NSW today and do a water change. I used to use strictly that, but was suggested by others to mix and not buy NSW, since you don't really know whats in it.

It's been a 7-8 month battle trying to keep sps. I get a frag, and it dies. So I try something different in the tank to see if that's what caused it. Then I try again after everything is stable. I'm quitting now after losing my $40 birdsnest frags. It's not worth the money, nor losing the animals.

As far as acclimating them, I start off with the frags towards the bottom (about 1/2 way down the tank) or the sides of the tank, where there's not so much light. I gradually move them up and closer to the high light areas over a 7-10 day period. Is this too fast? Normally by then though, they are already starting to bleach from the bottom up and continue to do so.

I cannot afford an RO/DI system yet, but the distilled water I use has been very consistent with 0 tds readings. I check every jug.

Anyway, thanks again everyone. I really appreciate the help.
 
Something that I just thought about which can be easy to overlook if you look at your tank during the day mostly is the feeder tentacles of the corals. A few of your corals can get feeder tentacles that reach up to 8" long, and they come out at night, and can get longer if they sense a nearby coral to sting. I've seen my little galaxias that are normally 1/2" off of the rock extend 6-8" stinger tentacles to sting my kenya tree (Doesn't bother the tree at all, doesn't even close up).

Hopefully everything will be good with the influx of new water....
 
I'm heading to the LFS now, how much should I change? I just tested my alk (9.1) and Calcium (460)...both are a little high so I want to bring them back down. Would 5 gals be enough?

I normally look at my tank in the evenings after work, I'm gone most of the day usually. My frogspawn and hammer are on the same side of the tank, and I keep everything else away from them. The longest I have ever seen the feeders on these corals is approx 3-4". I'll keep an eye out though, thanks!
 
I removed 5 gals of water, and put in about 6 gals of new water (had to add a gal of ro to make up for the high salinity of the water from the lfs.) I'm going to check all params tomorrow and see if that will bring everything to normal.

I also put in some carbon. I'll change that out every few weeks.

While at the lfs, there was another person who had the exact same problem as I have, and she still hasnt figured it out. She only has 1 acro thats lived in her tank, all the other sps die.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10384971#post10384971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SugarFox03
I just tested my alk (9.1) and Calcium (460)...both are a little high so I want to bring them back down.
Click to expand...

I don't consider either of those numbers to be high, and I've got a tank full o sps. My target values for my tank are 10dKH and 425-450ppm.
 
I'm ordering a chiller and a mag test from Drs F&S tonight, so I will report back with the mag reading when I get it. :)

I didn't think they were high either, but I guess for what I have they are? I dont even know anymore! Is there a good reef chemistry book out? Haha...I think I need to read up.
 
Re: Why can't I keep SPS - am I missing something?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10382597#post10382597 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SugarFox03
Reef Crystals salt mix. Could this be it? I am debating switching to Tropic Marin, but want to use up the remainder of my Reef Crystals - unless thats my problem?

Everything else in the tank is flourishing. My clams are getting huge, my softies are growing like weeds, my sun coral doesn't close at all, my fish are healthy.

I have lost 3 monti caps, 1 monti digi, 4 acros, 1 mille, and now my pink birdsnest is almost completely bleached.

I have plenty of flow thanks to my Quiet 1 2200 return pump and my Tunze Nanostream 6025.

Any ideas here, something I am over looking? The system has been set up now for approx. 15 months. I did a tank switch a few months ago so I could have a sump/refugium and a little more water volume to help stability. I have 10 lbs live sand, about 10 lbs live rock rubble and lots of chaeto in the fuge.

I have not changed out my actinics since I bought the fixture. I just thought about that. I have had it a year. Could this be it? I really just use the actinics to see at night, my MH is on from 10-6 every day.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!
Click to expand...

I would not change the salt, the one you are using is just fine, do increase on the skimmer production (run it very wet) and stop using anytime of flakes or dry foods for a little while. Your parameters seem fine to me unless you are not testing correctly.
I do think you do not have sufficient light, if you are going to change your pc's bulbs do not get actinic but instead help your Halides get a little more punch by adding some 65k daylight instead, Remember that actinics makes absolutely no difference to the corals it is purely aesthetic.
I also do not like bottle water for top off even if it says distilled and your tds meter shows 0, find a reputable store that sell ro/di water and get that instead for your kalk top off.
If you like I would come and check your tank sometime our schedules permit, just give me a call.

Rogger \
954-601-7333
 
I am having the same exact issue, except I kinda figure that its chemical warfare. I tried everything but finally have come to the conclusion that in a 65, I just dont have the space needed to grow sps, and softies or LPS and softies. Too much competition. I am not sure what approach to take, I was thinking the first step would be to rib myself of all the Xenia's, and that would free it up, not sure now. BTW WHEN IS THE NEXT MEETING? gotta donate some to the school or to put it up for sale :)

sorry hope you dont mind me stepping in on your thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
How to introduce new clown fish
Replies
14
Views
499
Brian60077
Brian60077
D
Neobenedenia - How f-ed am I?
Replies
4
Views
337
DiscoHobbit
D
Kona26
Aerate instant ocean reef crystals salt mix..?
Replies
3
Views
271
griss
griss
Dogs442
NEED HELP WITH RO/DI SYSTEM
2
Replies
34
Views
936
griss
griss
BuckeyeFish
Nitrate control: 24g nano
Replies
6
Views
430
BuckeyeFish
BuckeyeFish
Back
Top