fingersdlp
New member
Edited: Nevermind wrong post. Sorry.
Why doesn't everybody use kalk?
- Thread starter vessxpress1
- Start date
poissonist
New member
I TRIED EVERYTHING KNOWN! AND NOW I USE CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM ACETATE WHICH IS BY FAR MUCH BETTER THAN CaOH2; bye bye sedimentation and pH AND ALKALINITY variations! and also it deacrease nitrates and phosphates.
Only using dosing pumps and do it yourself for super low cost!
Only using dosing pumps and do it yourself for super low cost!
vessxpress1
Premium Member
What does this mean?
Anyway, I should have added to my statement so as not to confuse anyone. I guess what I meant by 'everyone' is everyone who complains about not being able to keep their Ca up. Not every tank will need the addition of kalk. Some tanks will not evaporate enough, to where the kalk top off for the day can fulfill the Ca demands of the tank.
I'm starting to keep a lot more LPS now and the one's I've had are getting larger. I've noticed lately that it's harder to keep the Ca levels up now. I just thought there might be a lot of people in the same boat as me where simple kalk additions can be the solution at this point.
Chammer: I currently don't have a fuge running and with the RK2, I'm able to monitor my pH every time I walk by the tank. My pH can get severely depressed at night. Occasionally, I've seen it drop below 8 to around 7.95. This is when the probe was new and calibrated correctly. Then it can rebound back up to 8.3 over the course of the day. The oxygen levels go way down at night because of no photosynthesis happening, which increases CO2 buildup, which depresses the pH.
I highly doubt you're keeping your Ca very high even with 10% water changes every week. I've added B-ionic to my tank daily, for a long time. I don't skimp on it. I check my Ca the other day and I'm at 375. This is with B-ionic additions. I want it up around 450-460. So I added 30 ml of pt. 2 and got it up around 400. Well, from there, I used the calculator on RC here and found that I needed to add 115.6 ml of B-ionic pt. 2, just to get from 400 to 450 mg/L in 37 gallons of water volume!! So I did this over 2 days and sure enough, my tank was up to 460 mg/L.
And I add Kent Tech M magnesium to keep the Mg over 1400 as well. Without it, my Mg would never stay in the range I want and I use RC salt.
vessxpress1
Premium Member
It all depends on your individual tank's Ca consumption per day. If you're heavily stocked with SPS, it probably won't be. If you're getting by with only 2-part additions, it most likely would be enough. You may find that one teaspoon per gallon of topoff can suit your needs. Or, it might need 2 per gallon or 1.5.
I'd recommend getting a new, good test kit (if you don't have one already) and use it. Stay in your normal routine and test the Ca every day for a week or two straight and see what it does. Maybe you'll find you don't even need kalk. It all depends where you want your Ca level to be at.
I get lazy from time to time. I try to do a 20% change every two weeks but sometimes I push it to three. Rarely I may even go four. Very rarely. It's towards the end of these periods, before you do your next WC, is when I'd check your Ca for at least a few days straight and see how you're doing.
I'd still keep some type of Ca supplement around in case of an emergency though. You don't really want to use kalk to raise Ca too much because it raises pH so dramatically. From what I've read, the kalk's mainly intended to maintain Ca levels where you want them. Get it where you want with the two part and then, try dosing kalk after that.
I know this isn't news to a lot of people here but I'm fairly new to it and wanted to see what other people thought about it.
kappaknight
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9471760#post9471760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chammer
Why do you need kalk?
How much does the local PH of the water on a reef change at night?
If you need kalk or other calcium supplementation, why have my reef aquariums always been so happy with out it?
It appears my tank has no issue with calcium as the back wall of my tank is solidly covered in pink/purple corline algae. I mean literally solid! My zenia are growing like weeds, and my LPS are all growing. My Open Brain has actually healed, when I bought it a year or so ago the flesh was seperated from the skeleton on about 20% of the base. I have had a BTA for over a year, and it recently split. So now I have two
I honestly believe that 90% of the maintenance/supplementation/technology requirements for reef aquariums is pure BS/HYPE. All based on equipment/suppliment or retail companies trying there best to grab your $$$. And they surely are in this hobby!
It may be just me but it doesn't seem like you keep corals that demand high calcium therefore your setup works for you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but for some people who keep all SPS and/or clam tanks, their calcium demands will be higher.
Again, I don't advocate an "all or nothing" attitude for or against kalk or reactors.
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
I'm so glad I stopped using kalk.
It's a mess. It has to be mixed up every few days. It destroys the pumps you use for topoff and clogs the lines in no time. It spikes your pH every time the topoff comes on. It turns topoff problems, which normally are SG problems, into ph, ca, and alk problems. You are limited by evaporation.
I set my Ca reactor, and then I leave it for a year.
It's a mess. It has to be mixed up every few days. It destroys the pumps you use for topoff and clogs the lines in no time. It spikes your pH every time the topoff comes on. It turns topoff problems, which normally are SG problems, into ph, ca, and alk problems. You are limited by evaporation.
I set my Ca reactor, and then I leave it for a year.
Just to be clear, I do understand why people think they need to use Kalk. But my questions stands. How much does the PH drift on a reef? And additionally I wonder what the typical calcium concentration of water over a reef is?
I bet the calcium runs approx. 375, and the PH drifts a bit below 8.3 at night. I think we tend to overthink ourselves in this hobby. Not that that is a bad thing! I believe the hobby is a lot simplier than some of us make it out to be. Keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible, leave stuff alone, change a little water, keep the salinity and temperature stable, add little food, and enjoy. However if you enjoy tinkering, adjusting, worrying, fussing, and pondering, have at it! Myself, I just now fed the fish, added 2 quarts of de-ionized make up water and am kicking back in the lazy boy enjoying the tank
It works for me.
My topoff lasts 2 weeks. It takes a couple of extra seconds to mix in the kalk powder. No mess, minimal time. I've been using the same $10 Aqualifter pump for 2 years to dose it. My PH never is spiked high at all. How could it spike when just a couple of oz of topoff water is added at a time (float switch)?
Yes, the critters I select are by design hardy and fairly simple to care for as I have other hobbies to spend time on also
(golf, weight lifting or motocross by day, bowling, reading and baseball by night!!) And I'm sure you're correct that some people have tanks with higher calcium demands than mine! However, from what I've read Kalk tends to increase calcium content to higher than natural levels, where a calcium reactor typically is capable of keeping calcium at a near natural level. Do PH levels on a natural reef drift below 8.3 at night? I bet they do! (although to be sure I don't know that for a fact)Why use Kalk? It's a pain to mix, administor and cleanup after.
vessxpress1
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9479282#post9479282 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chammer
Just to be clear, I do understand why people think they need to use Kalk. But my questions stands. How much does the PH drift on a reef? And additionally I wonder what the typical calcium concentration of water over a reef is?
I bet the calcium runs approx. 375, and the PH drifts a bit below 8.3 at night. I think we tend to overthink ourselves in this hobby. Not that that is a bad thing! I believe the hobby is a lot simplier than some of us make it out to be. Keep your hands out of the tank as much as possible, leave stuff alone, change a little water, keep the salinity and temperature stable, add little food, and enjoy. However if you enjoy tinkering, adjusting, worrying, fussing, and pondering, have at it! Myself, I just now fed the fish, added 2 quarts of de-ionized make up water and am kicking back in the lazy boy enjoying the tank
The pH can drift a lot on a reef. Especially in shallow spots during rain storms and I've read that it does inflict heavy death and damage on the corals. But, since there are so many over a large area and conditions eventually get back to normal, what survives will grow back. We just can't recreate this on such a scale and I don't want to put stuff through anymore stress than it has to go through.
My tank apparently can survive at 375 mg/L since it was just there. I think most here would admit that at that point, you're at if not past the lower limit already. Lower than this and you're just asking for trouble.
I want my tank to have strong calcium levels all the time. To me, it's like eliminating one more possibility if you start running into problems. If you have an LPS that's starting to look bad, then you probably can't blame it on low calcium, alk or pH levels, while using kalk.
Example: I have a maze brain that seems to be very temperamental. A spot will bleach and then it comes back. Then another spot will lighten up and then it comes back. I don't know what's causing this so I want to eliminate the possibility of low calcium or pH fluctuation as much as possible.
vessxpress1
Premium Member
So what? Guys growing marijuana plants in their basements will leave lights on them 24/7 which isn't natural, but it allows photosynthesis to happen 24/7. So with that being the case, I'd guess they could also grow twice as fast.
Not entirely the same thing but having higher than natural calcium levels is not a bad thing as far as I know. Except that it will drive alkalinity down. I'd rather be on the high side with room to play and more than enough Ca, than be at the lower extreme and have it drop further. I heard from a reliable source that if your Ca level gets too low that it can stunt the growth of your coral for a long period of time. I don't want to test the theory.
fingersdlp
New member
If we work on the assumption (I would call it a fact) that some tanks need more calcium than provided with a 10% water change each week then suplementing is necessary.
I used to use 2 parts, now I use Kalk and I think kalk is just as easy when used with a top off system. I spend maybe 10 minutes a week to carry three buckets of RO water to my top off tank and add 1 - 2 tablespoons of kalk. That certainly does not cut into my other hobby time. If it did I would just run a line to the tank so I could almost completely automate it using a kalk reactor - oh wait... I did that on my other tank, I almost forgot because it is no work at all (unless you count 2 minutes to add kalk powder every few weeks).
No pain to mix, no pain to administer and no pain to cleanup in my experience.
Also if you buy Ms. Wages pickeling lime in bulk it is very cost effective.
If you do not need it thats great but similar to what you said earlier - do what works best for your tank. For me that is using kalk and that is why I use it.
flyhigh123
funky member
i was going to use kalk but after reading about the two part mix, it seemed to me that the two part is just as easy as kalk, if not easier, becuase you can control the amount of levels better...
just my 2 cents
just my 2 cents
poissonist
New member
So guy it is time for you to use acetate calcium or magnesium!! i had the same problems!! And about pH i found using Na OH WITH 1 DROP each 15 seconds. You will disturb ionic balance hyper slowly so use your stechiometric balance with ion CaCl2 and MgCl2 to make Na and Cl at the same level!;hOPING YOU ARE ABLE TO BALANCE YOURSELF DOING YOUR OWN CALCULATIONS; iT COST CENTS EACH MONTH TO DO IT USING Industrial CHEMICAL PRODUCTS; wITH KENT SEACHEM OR GROTECH OR ELSE IT WILL RUIN YOU!!!!!Like many other hobbists...
Frick-n-Frags
New member
I use baking soda mostly for alk and about half Ca(Cl)2 and half kalk. my pH goes too high, so that limits the amount of kalk. the Ca(Cl)2 makes up for the Na offset. It takes a while, but eventually it all gets dialled in.
But even this requires a monster waterchange every few months to keep table salt from replacing everything else in the saltwater.
I personally don't see how anything could be intrinsically better than a Ca reactor. I will get one soon, because seeing as how the tank needs Calcium and carbonate, why not crack calcium carbonate to do it? and that doesn't even address the stability advantages.
But even this requires a monster waterchange every few months to keep table salt from replacing everything else in the saltwater.
I personally don't see how anything could be intrinsically better than a Ca reactor. I will get one soon, because seeing as how the tank needs Calcium and carbonate, why not crack calcium carbonate to do it? and that doesn't even address the stability advantages.
poissonist
New member
mORE ANIAMALS YOU PUT IN A TANK AND MORE IT WILL BE DIFFICULT; mORE YOU PUT CORALS AND MORE IT GROWS MORE IT WILL USE CA AND MG AND MANY OTHER THINGS; AND IF YOU use as i do 1500 LITERS PER MONTH pHYTO PLANCTON YOU INCREASE EXPERIMENTALLY 100 TIMES THE BIOLOGICAL LOAD OF AN AQUARIUM; i EXPERIMENT 50 FISHES FOR 100 LITERS PLUS ABOUT 200 HUNDREDS CORALS BOTH SOFT AND HARD IN; OF COURSE I DID IT SLOWLY AND I COULD TEST ALL THE MACHINES AND METHODS WHICH TOOKS ME TIME AND MONEY YOU CAN HARDLY IMAGINE; AFTER TESTING EVERYTHING AND ASKING EVERYODY YOU BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND MORE!!! THIS IS WHY IF ONE DO NOT WANT TO BE RUINED AND CONTINUE TO HAVE FUN IT WILL COME A TIME WHEN YOU BEGIN TO USE ALCOOL AND ACETATE TO KEEP UNDER CONTROL nITRATES PHOSHATES AND CA AND MG AND IODINE AND EVERYTHING PLUS OF COURSE YOUR NA AND CL BALANCE; IT TAKES MANY YEARS TO UNDERSTAND ALL THAT AND OF COURSE A LOT OF TIME EACH DAY! But i advise everybody to use alcool and acetate because you save money. only your money not mine because i do not care of your monay!! i sell nothing. i feel close to all hobbists only because we have same hobby! that is enough for me. and of course i do not like at all people who sold me many bull ****s. Last exemple the phytobreeder of Grotech!!!
