dkeller_nc
New member
I would imagine that you've a strong local reefing club (as opposed to a "reefer club"
) in your area, depending on where in PA you're located. Blackworms are best shared through a local club - makes them much cheaper.
Why so many problems?
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
I would imagine that you've a strong local reefing club (as opposed to a "reefer club"
) in your area, depending on where in PA you're located. Blackworms are best shared through a local club - makes them much cheaper.
dkeller_nc
New member
What I was pointing out is that most of the fish we keep tend to be either herbivorous or planktovores, not so much making a broad statement about most of the fish on the reef. Yes, folks do keep morays, anglers, lions, and in extreme cases, sharks, that are all mainly piscivores.
But if you consider the common fish kept in the marine hobby, their natural diet doesn't have much fish in it. For example, damsels are primarily herbivorous with zooplankton that's attached to the algae as a supplement. Large angels mostly feed on porifera (sponges), dwarfs are largely eat algae and small crustaceans, tangs are herbivorous, cardinals are planktovores, gobies eat small crustaceans and worms, etc, etc...
But again, I'm not saying that they won't eat fish fry, just if you consider that fish fry are a very small portion of the plankton on a reef, and that most of these species don't actively hunt fish fry, it may not be necessary to imitate the nutritional profile of whole fish in their captive diet.
That said, much prepared food is fish meal, and it will certainly keep a marine fish alive, though I think you are correct that terrestrial and freshwater worms, crustaceans, insect larvae, and the like will do a better job of keeping marine fish in top condition and disease resistant than fish meal.
Paul B
Premium Member
I really don't know how small a part of a fishes diet is other fish, but we do know that out of the millions of eggs that can hatch from a single fish such as a stripped bass, almost all of them get eaten by other fish, and fish spawn every few weeks so there is a lot of fish fry on the reefs. I know when I dive, when I look at the base of the corals, it is loaded with fish fry and I have seen clownfish eat these fry. Most fish will eat fry as they very numerous. I am not saying that that is their only meal but I think that most fish get at least some fresh fish food every day. Fish fry are tiny and we think of them as zooplankton or even copepods for the smaller species as they are about the same size. I know the only way I get my fish to spawn continousely "and" become immune from disease if through fresh, not dried foods.
But you are correct, fish will live on prepared foods.
Just not well enough to become immune from anything.
But you are correct, fish will live on prepared foods.
Just not well enough to become immune from anything.
dkeller_nc
New member
I suspect we are on the same page (in fact, I know we are). The only aspect of the discussion I was addressing is the target nutritional profile for live/fresh foods fed to our fish. I just suspect that for most of the fish that we keep, combinations of live and frozen foods that are targeted towards something more towards the crustacean families would be better.
But that's splitting hairs - the base message that feeding your fish exclusively from the way-too-easy "shake a bottle of dried stuff over the tank" isn't going to be optimal.
Paul B
Premium Member
I am on about 15 forums, 7 of them are about fish, the rest just show pictures of Beautiful Babes on Corvettes, but I digress, of the fish forums I am on, probably half of the topics start with "Help" spots, dots, salt and pepper, rash, etc. Or something died in quarantine because it was already infected. I think all fish are infected with something when we buy them but a fishes immune system works great, even better than ours.
In the beginning of this thread, I put forth my theories, which are just mine and are just theories but the older I get and the more experience I have, the more I believe them. As I looked at my tank this morning I noticed that not one fish has a missing scale or scratch, not even the 20 year old firefish, although he does look tired.
My mandarins are spawning as are my clown gobies and cardinals. I think my pistol shrimp are to but they spend most of their time in a cave so I don't really know but the male smiles a lot.
None of my fish hide or are scared of me, they just want to bite me which is a healthy sign. Their diet is mostly live worms. Blackworms and whteworms.
Anyone can get whiteworms as they live in dirt and are free. After you buy a cheap starter culture online, they grow and multiply like crazy on just Cheerios. I add some fish oil to Cheerios just for the heck of it and I add fish oil to everything because I think it is a health miracle, but that's just me. I have no studies to prove anything. I also don't know if whiteworms are as healthy as blackworms as I am not a worm expert. One plastic shoebox of whiteworm culture allows me to feed whiteworms every day. If I used a larger plastic box I would have enough whiteworms for me to also have them for dinner. But I don't think I have enough hot sauce to cover the wormy taste or cover the slime factor. :worried:
Besides worms my fish get eith er frozen Mysis and clam. That is their entire diet. The newborn brine shrimp is mostly for the tiny fish and mandarins but they don't really need them.
I also believe, as I mentioned ad nausium, that a sterile tank is not a healthy tank. If you don't believe me, start your own thread, but write it in an operating room. :beer:
References:
Me
In the beginning of this thread, I put forth my theories, which are just mine and are just theories but the older I get and the more experience I have, the more I believe them. As I looked at my tank this morning I noticed that not one fish has a missing scale or scratch, not even the 20 year old firefish, although he does look tired.
My mandarins are spawning as are my clown gobies and cardinals. I think my pistol shrimp are to but they spend most of their time in a cave so I don't really know but the male smiles a lot.None of my fish hide or are scared of me, they just want to bite me which is a healthy sign. Their diet is mostly live worms. Blackworms and whteworms.
Anyone can get whiteworms as they live in dirt and are free. After you buy a cheap starter culture online, they grow and multiply like crazy on just Cheerios. I add some fish oil to Cheerios just for the heck of it and I add fish oil to everything because I think it is a health miracle, but that's just me. I have no studies to prove anything. I also don't know if whiteworms are as healthy as blackworms as I am not a worm expert. One plastic shoebox of whiteworm culture allows me to feed whiteworms every day. If I used a larger plastic box I would have enough whiteworms for me to also have them for dinner. But I don't think I have enough hot sauce to cover the wormy taste or cover the slime factor. :worried:
Besides worms my fish get eith er frozen Mysis and clam. That is their entire diet. The newborn brine shrimp is mostly for the tiny fish and mandarins but they don't really need them.
I also believe, as I mentioned ad nausium, that a sterile tank is not a healthy tank. If you don't believe me, start your own thread, but write it in an operating room. :beer:
References:
Me
I'm not sure how close to TFP you are, but I know that they USED to sell them 10 years ago. They were priced at a few bucks per ounce.
I see you're registered for the swap tomorrow, why not pick some up while you're there?
Sorry, I'm not aware of any supermodel-wife swaps occurring anytime soon. I'll let you know if I hear of any :lmao:
Paul B
Premium Member
That's all on here.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2285741
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2285741
Northside Reef
Premium Member
Started at page one made it to the bottom before I had to chime in so if already said then this is just to solidify the point.
Paul I agree with you 100% but I would say the reason most people with new tanks have problems has nothing to do with diet at all. It has a lot more to do with.
"Hey guys check out my new tank"
one week later
Hey guys check out my fully stocked tank"
one moth later
"hey guys why am I having so many problems"
No one ages their tanks any more. It's cycle, stock, stock some more, scratch your head as things go wrong.
But I will agree a trip to the supermarket and a search on the internet for a few recipes for homemade fish food will do a lot to make your fish more than just happy but annoying little pigs that think everytime they see you you're supposed to feed them. Maybe it's my fault. I usually give in.
Paul I agree with you 100% but I would say the reason most people with new tanks have problems has nothing to do with diet at all. It has a lot more to do with.
"Hey guys check out my new tank"
one week later
Hey guys check out my fully stocked tank"
one moth later
"hey guys why am I having so many problems"
No one ages their tanks any more. It's cycle, stock, stock some more, scratch your head as things go wrong.
But I will agree a trip to the supermarket and a search on the internet for a few recipes for homemade fish food will do a lot to make your fish more than just happy but annoying little pigs that think everytime they see you you're supposed to feed them. Maybe it's my fault. I usually give in.
Paul B
Premium Member
Northside Reef. Ah true, but you failed to read my second post, which says:
So we do agree that Noobs with new tanks have different problems restricted to Noobs.
I am referring to established tanks and I am not saying people should not ask "stupid" questions. I said they should not ask a question like "My tang died, what is wrong?"
That's like asking, my hair fell out so what is Paris Hiltons phone number" and you won't get an intelligent answer.
If your tang died, and you are asking why, maybe you should say something like "my 8 year old tang died after watching 18 straight episodes of Dancing with the stars, or after I accidently poured in half a gallon of Clorox in my tank, then I poured in the second half, or my barracuda bit it in half or I have only been feeding it flakes, corn flakes, or it was covered in spots, or, before it died, it's skin fell off. Be specific or you will get 237 non specific answers that will do you no good and waste a lot of ink. :headwalls:
Stupid questions are fine, but may elicit a stupid answer.
Also don't ask a question like what fish should I buy?
I am fed up to here with that question (my hand is under my chin)
You could say "my tank is 3 days old, it contains 6 carpet anemones, 3 seahorses, a twin spot gobi, 2 orange spot filefish, a Moorish Idol (because he was eating Cheerios in the store) a firecoral and a green moray eel. I would like something purple to match my girlfriends Mazaratti. Then you may get an answer. Not the answer you want, but an answer none the less. :smokin:
So we do agree that Noobs with new tanks have different problems restricted to Noobs.
I am referring to established tanks and I am not saying people should not ask "stupid" questions. I said they should not ask a question like "My tang died, what is wrong?"
That's like asking, my hair fell out so what is Paris Hiltons phone number" and you won't get an intelligent answer.
If your tang died, and you are asking why, maybe you should say something like "my 8 year old tang died after watching 18 straight episodes of Dancing with the stars, or after I accidently poured in half a gallon of Clorox in my tank, then I poured in the second half, or my barracuda bit it in half or I have only been feeding it flakes, corn flakes, or it was covered in spots, or, before it died, it's skin fell off. Be specific or you will get 237 non specific answers that will do you no good and waste a lot of ink. :headwalls:
Stupid questions are fine, but may elicit a stupid answer.
Also don't ask a question like what fish should I buy?
I am fed up to here with that question (my hand is under my chin)
You could say "my tank is 3 days old, it contains 6 carpet anemones, 3 seahorses, a twin spot gobi, 2 orange spot filefish, a Moorish Idol (because he was eating Cheerios in the store) a firecoral and a green moray eel. I would like something purple to match my girlfriends Mazaratti. Then you may get an answer. Not the answer you want, but an answer none the less. :smokin:
lol does your girlfriend even know she has a boyfriend? :lolspin:
Seriously though Paul, I really enjoy your threads. The combination of against-the-grain methods and your writing style make them very, very good reads.
Well then, tell your secretary (girlfriend?) that she does a helluva job! :lol:
Paul B
Premium Member
Yesterday I took my 4 -thousand dollar koi back to the pet shop for the winter. They are really 10 cent feeder goldfish that got big, but I tell my neighbors they are very expensive koi. They don't know a koi from a duck billed platypus but it makes me sound wealthy. I bring them back to the store because my "Koi" pond is only 10" deep and my very expensive "koi" would freeze solid and I would lose my 40 cents, I mean $4,000.00 worth of fish. Next year I will again spend 40 cents, Oh I mean $4,000.00 to buy 4 more "koi". There is a huge copper fountain that I built in the pond and I never tell the fish that copper is supposed to kill them. In the 10 or so years I have been keeping "koi" I never lost one and they get rather large in a year. They never got ich though and I do give them Koi food because even they think they are Koi. Some day I would like to try my hand at keeping duck billed platypuses, but then I don't know what to tell my neighbors they really are. Maybe goldfish. :dance:
Northside Reef
Premium Member
You should tell your $4000.00 Koi that you used the copper fountain to kill any ich in the pond so it will never get ich and die. It will be so happy you cared so much.
