WILD CAUGHT Clownfish Acclimation

[Reefvette]

So i have been pushing and pushing my clownfish acclimation agenda on people, some a little famous in the Hobby.

Ive never lost a clown that has shown up via retailer alive.

Clownfish that are wild caught are undoubtly found in anemones they dont know otherwise. They slime coat is constant reproduced and strengthened by rubbing against the tentacles of a nem. So it would be reasonable to come to the conclusion that anemones are aide in the healthy of fish or else they would live in them. Be it from feeling comfortable and safe or replenishing the slime coat, they aide in the healthy of our clownfish.

Most wild caught clowns i have seen come down with exterior diseases when they are not kept in anemones when first aquired.
IME and IMO

So far (some are harder to keep species some arent)

2 wild caught akindynos - NO QT straight into display tank with bubbletips and gigantea - No Loses
4 Nigripis - NO QT straight into 10 gallon display with RBTA's - No Loses
4 inch Large Female White Bonnet - 40 breeder with Bubble tips - No losses
2.5 inch white bonnet - 10 gallon tank with bubbletip - Lost the fish cause the bubble tip when powerhead surfing while i was in NC
.75 inch Juvi Blue Stripe (Most recent as of this saturday) - Right into breeder box in display with 4 bubble tips - no heavy breathing - no ich - nothing. Eating mysis like a champ.

I am starting to think theres more to this relationship then shelter, more health related advantages.

 

[bues0022]

While you may have had a good experience, this is definitely not always the case. Give this a read: http://www.lightning-maroon-clownfish.com/?tag=lightning-maroon-clownfish I'm sure you've heard about the very famous lighting maroon clownfish? This is the blog of a VERY knowledgeable and very good breeder. He had his large maroon clownfish in a tank with an RBTA - and it died. While you have had success, I would be quite wary of dropping any wild caught clownfish directly into another tank with other clowns. Wild caught are notorious for having disease and I just wouldn't take that risk.

 

[a-T-m]

Interesting ideas.

I'd believe that it plays more into the fish's mental health and stability than anything physical. We see that tank raised clowns live fine without anemones, and they are the undoubtedly the same species as their wild counterparts. So i'd come to the conclusion that it is the fish's level of comfort and stress rather than a replenishing slime coat.

Clownfish hosting is an animal instinct. Regardless of how many "will my (insert species) host?" topics pop up in this forum, each of these clowns is going to host in something. A trend that i've slightly noticed here on RC and with local clowns is that Tank Raised clowns are more likely to begin hosting once they're older, or paired up and are gearing towards mating. So it could be said that tank raised clowns view hosting as an option for when they're ready too.

In the wild, if they clowns are caught out of their nem, they are likely to be eaten. So perhaps wild clowns view hosting as an immediate necessity for shelter rather than the casual comfort of tank raised (since the latter have never known the need). So when a wild clown is placed in a tank without an anemone, he realizes that he is shelter less and begins to suffer from a heavy onset of fear and anxiety; he thinks that he is in open ocean without shelter. Therefore the illnesses that most wild caught clown fish suffer from are brought on by stress from periods without anemones.

Just my 2 cents/thoughts.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Oddly enough I don't QT my fish, except for when it comes to wild caught clowns.

 

[Winwood]

I believe the anemone plays a factor in reducing stress but IME there are other ways this can be accomplished while still ensuring a proper quarantine period such as keeping the newly aquired fish in dark tank with little traffic around it. Also lowered temperatures and hypo salinity seem to offer positive benefits when dealing with wc fish. This way if something does arrise one is able to treat profilactly and doesn't infect his or hers current stock.

 

[Ron Popeil]

i too have had similar experiences. anemones certainly do help, especially with the chrysopterus ive had in the past. but like winwood has said, combining lower temperatures and hyposalinity have also worked. a combination of all of these coupled in a dark, low activity environment i think are the most important factors to easing a wild caught fish into captivity. there definitely is a great deal of psychological stress these fish are enduring, and i think responsible collection and their time at the distributer has a big impact on how the fish will do for the hobbyist.

and like todd, i only QT my clowns as well. any other fish goes right into the tank.

 

[Reefvette]

Blues

Blues

That blog post is the famous guy i was refering too. Yea that was me nudging him in his blog to put it in with a bubble tip.

Look back in the thread he didnt have it immediately in with anemones. He did a traditional QT, after that didnt work he tried to the anemone.


That "guy" is far more expeirenced then me, but clownfish like any other fish have specific requirements that i think we overlook. Like the whole anemone thing.

Captive bred clowns dont automatically host because they dont grow up in the wild where maybe 5 of eggs lives on and get its own anemone. Wild caught clowns dont know any better and then you throw them into a tank with a pot and no sand or rock or anemone and expect them to acclimate.

 

[frydaddy]

I'm starting to agree with this theory. I've used various QT methods in the past and they have been hit or miss. I recently got a pair of blue stripes that were showing signs of brook in the shipping bag. I decided to put them into my display after acclimation to see if they would host the H Crispa I had and if that would make any difference in their health. A day later they were no longer showing any signs and were eating like pigs, everything from flake to frozen.

Needless to say, in the past I never would have attempted this with blue stripes. But I'm starting to think the QT environment might do as much harm as any diseases they might have.

 

[Reefvette]

Fry

Fry

Hey fry where did you get your blue stripes from. Me thinks we might have from the same batch.

This little guy is .75 inches and eating like 4 or 5 hikira mysis and flakes.


I wish Matt would chime in, hes got loads of expeirence.

I dont like using chemicals like copper or anti biotics. My theory is that these fish have learned over many thousands of years how to live inside an anemone and stay healthy. A fishes slime coat is what we guage for healthy fish. Clowns have figured out how to change compostion of its slime coat to allow it to freely swim in inbetween the tentacles of anemones.

I have never seen an clown with exterior parasites or ich or brook that has lived inside of an anemone.

 

[clowns101]

I understand your theroy,and I agree with it very much.But I Have one problem with it.

I have ordered from quite a few online facilities.All but BZA(soon going to place an order).Out of all my oders,Even the more rebutable suppliers,can still ship a fish with ich or brook.And I keep other fish in my tanks and I dont want to introduce anything to the system,so I would QT.But that really depend on the fish.The ich is kinda hard to not to have but brook is one I dont want to have intorduced into any of my sysyems.

I think that QT is very imporatant for some WC clownfish.Mainly Blue Stripes,and even more rare clownfish Latz,Lueks,Akindynos,Tricinctus...etc.

But my point is,due to the fact that they can carrie parasites and such,I would always QT.I dont want a $15 dollar clownfish killing a $150-$300 angle fish I have in my system.I know $-150-$300 isnt much,but its still more than the $15 dollar clownfish!

Know what I mean?

 

[frydaddy]

Got them from BlueZoo, female is around 3" and the male is 1.75" - 2" range. When I opened the bag to acclimate them, I thought for sure they weren't going to make it. So I figured what the heck, might as well let them live out their last couple of days in an anemone.

 

[ezhoops]

I'm glad you've had so much good fortune but it seems your setting your self up for disappointment, hopefully not.

 

[frydaddy]

I should clarify one thing, I had no other fish in the tank at the time. That's why I decided to give it a try. I figured it couldn't be any worse then QTing them and I thought a more natural environment would be less stressful. I was also prepared to go months without any fish in the system if they did die.

I'm thinking of setting my 46gal back up with some bta's in it to use to acclimate future wild caught clowns and see what happens.

 

[Winwood]

I have tried initial introducing clownfish to displays with anemones many times. IME it can work well, however I believe it can also allow disease to set in past the point of treatment.

I recently tried this approach with a pair of akindynos clowns and after about a week I noticed the female breathing rather rapidly. I removed her to a treatment tank but it was too late. This has been my experience with chrysopterus and nigripes as well.

I honestly believe like Jordan says a lot of it has to do with responsible collection and handling processes. Both my successful chrysopterus acclimations were from transhipped orders which elimated a lot of acclimations and repackaging experiences for the fish.

 

[bues0022]

frydaddy- you have some interesting thoughts on the topic, and I'm glad you clarified that there were no other fish in the system to potentially lose should the infection be transfered. I wonder if an experiment could be carried out where you used both real BTA's and some kind of BTA-like plastic/silicone substitute to simulate a BTA. In this fashion, you could introduce fish equally into each system to see if it is a reduction in stress from having a "home" environment, or any type of biochemical interaction from the BTA that increases immunoresponse and leads to healthier fish. If is actually turns out to be the former, then you would be a step ahead in the QT process because the "silicone" BTA would still allow you to dose medication that a real BTA would not tolerate. If the later is the case, then as you believe the need to dose medication would be severely diminished anyway.

BTW, are you on TCMAS.org at all? I don't recall seeing your SN on there, unless it's different there.

 

[bues0022]

...but clownfish like any other fish have specific requirements that i think we overlook.

I couldn't agree more with this statement, and I'm glad there are experienced people pushing the envelope to separate fact from fiction, and advance the knowledge base so we all can keep healthier animals.

 

[Reefvette]

Clarification

Clarification

My tanks also dont house any other more expensive fish.

I dont beleive that is it possible to house an anemone successfully long term in a reef tank without losing something. A fish a coral or anything.

I beleive that clownfish QT should involve an anemone. Like a regular QT but without chems just clean water and nems.

 

[LargeAngels]

Anemones might help to a certain extent, but it is not the "cure all." I've seen plenty of clowns going into huge tanks (as big as 2,000 gallons) with lots of anemones and still have issues. Anemones might keep them from getting certain things, but once they have the issue anemones won't cure them.

 

[Reefvette]

Collection

Collection

I do agree with the collection part of it as well.

LargeAngels, i beleive that is where a healthy varied diet comes in. Just like we eat fish oils for the nutrients they provide, so do fish.

I just dont like using copper or other foreign chems to treat a fish whose own body should be able to fight off parasite. Good husbandry and a good diet keeps these animals in check.

This makes me smile

 

[frydaddy]

bues0022 - yes I'm on tcmas with the same screen name, frydaddy, though I rarely post there, mostly just read.

LargeAngels - I'm not saying by any means that this is "curing" anything. I'm looking at it more from the environment perspective. I think the QT process causes more stress and weakens them enough that you have to rely completely on the medications to rid them of any diseases, bacteria or what not. The water quality is not going to be the same in a medicated QT tank as compared to a display tank. There won't be an anemone either and you might be feeding less or foods they aren't used to yet. Plus all the medications might be stripping away their slime coat so they can't fight anything off.

Putting them in a tank with an anemone would be a more stable, familiar and less stressful environment that might help them overcome any diseases, bacteria or what not through their own immune system.

But like I said, I'm starting to agree with this theory. Not that I'm completely sold or that others should try it. I just had much better luck with a pair that looked doomed trying this then I have had in the past trying to get blue stripes through QT.