Will my sump overflow?

[Leopard Man]

Basically I will have a 50G tank and 10G sump. The Drain line will be 1" and return line will be 0.5". I'm just concerned that if there is a power failure, the water falling from the drain line to the sump will cause a flood.

Please see pics below. These are rough diagrams for my new setup and is not to scale:

 

[Village Idiot]

I think you have a good chance of flooding your sump if you're not careful. Your tank will overflow 5.6 gallons with the returns 2 inches below the water surface. Your sump holds .9 gallons per inch of height (I got these numbers using the calculators on this website).

That means the top 6 inches or so of your sump is needed just to handle the overflow (6x.9=5.4 gallons. Your baffles can not be over 6 inches tall

Reduce the return to 1 inch below the water line and you only need to allow for 2.8 gallons. This will let you have the baffles about 3 inches higher.

 

[Leopard Man]

Thanks,

That really helps a lot. So the key is to reduce the return to 1" below water level. Got it.

How high can my baffles be - about 9" on a 12" sump ok? and do you think 2" apart is ok?

Cheers

 

[Village Idiot]

I did my baffles 1 inch apart, just because that's what Melev suggests on his sump site.

9 inch baffles will allow for 2.7 gallons of overflow. Just make sure that the returns are less than an inch below the surface in the main tank. You might be better off with 8 inch baffles to give you more wiggle room, but then you lose sump capacity which is a bad thing. You have to find the sweet spot that gives you the most sump volume w/o the chance of a flood in a power failure.

 

[Leopard Man]

Cool. Any reasons why Melev suggests that baffles be 1" apart?

I might go for 8" baffles just to be on the safe side.

 

[Village Idiot]

Don't know why he does 1 inch...he's built a heck of a lot more sumps than I have so I bow down to his experience.

My 1 inchers work just fine...no bubbles get past them AND it gives me more room in my return section. That means more room for heaters/etc. and allows for a greater volume in the return area, which means you won't have to topoff as much.

BTW, it looks like you have a lot more room under your tank for a larger sump, the larger you make it the happier you'll be.

 

[Leopard Man]

I understand. Will try 1" apart. I'll make an auto top off, as well as get a kalk and or calcium reactor in the future, hence the available room under my tank.

I could make the sump taller I guess, I could do, 18x12x18. That way I wouldn't have to worry so much about my sump over flowing as well as add a little more water volume too.

 

[jepuskar]

Fill your tank up to just below the overflow teeth, assuming its below the return nozzle.

Fill your sump up to the maximum water height..give yourself an inch or so from the top. Turn on your return pump.

In the event of a power failure your sump will fill to the max water line, unless something else has changed since testing.

J

 

[sjm817]

1" baffles dont work. Neither do 2". Bubble traps are a waste of space. See this thread for a discussion on it. That Rio 14HF is going to be severely restricted with 1/2" plumbing. You are better off with a smaller, better pump and larger plumbing.

 

[Leopard Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10045523#post10045523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jepuskar
Fill your tank up to just below the overflow teeth, assuming its below the return nozzle.

Fill your sump up to the maximum water height..give yourself an inch or so from the top. Turn on your return pump.

In the event of a power failure your sump will fill to the max water line, unless something else has changed since testing.

J

Will try it.

 

[Leopard Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10045808#post10045808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
1" baffles dont work. Neither do 2". Bubble traps are a waste of space. See this thread for a discussion on it. That Rio 14HF is going to be severely restricted with 1/2" plumbing. You are better off with a smaller, better pump and larger plumbing.

Care to suggest a simple design? I will not have a fuge in my sump as my set up will be BB. How big of a drain should I have and what would you suggest for a pump?

Btw does anyone know how low should I drill my over flow and how high should my return be compared to it?

 

[sjm817]

Take a look at that thread. There is a good design there. The basic idea is to keep the bubbles at the surface of the water. Dont pull them down. A filter sock does wonders to eliminate bubbles from the drain. For that size setup, a 1" drain is fine. Typically, drill the tank 2" from the top and edge and install some sort of overflow weir. There are several designs. The return should enter the display just under the surface to prevent a lot of back siphon which can overflow your sump.

I would use a larger sump than a 10G. Your drawing shows an external pump. I would use something like a Panworld 30PX with a ~ 20G+ sump. If you use a 10G, something along the lines of a 10PX

 

[Leopard Man]

Filter sock sounds good. 1" drain is also what I had in mine and drilling tank 2" from top and edge sounds good too.

Ok, might make the sump 18x12x16, that's 15G. I can't go any longer because I want my skimmer and return outside to minimise heat as I live in Asia. We don't have Panworld pumps here.

 

[sjm817]

If heat is a concern, use an air cooled external pump, not a water cooled pump. Something similar to what I posted. 200 - 300 GPH.

 

[Glove]

Its not just the returns, the drain pipe/hole needs to be considered as well.
Both will drain water when the power goes.

 

[Leopard Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10049048#post10049048 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
If heat is a concern, use an air cooled external pump, not a water cooled pump. Something similar to what I posted. 200 - 300 GPH.

ok thanks.

 

[Leopard Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10049095#post10049095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Glove
Its not just the returns, the drain pipe/hole needs to be considered as well.
Both will drain water when the power goes.

That's right. I think village idiot addressed this already in his first reply.

 

[klam114]

Just getting back to original question. Your sump size is too close for comfort as you don't have much room to work with for possible overflowing.

 

[zbrook1]

I have a 20 gal sump for my 75 and do not have any bubble traps...have 3 compartments one for inlet from tank with skimmer.one for ref and one for return pump..no bubbles here...also I used adjustable loc-line for my return into the tank so I can tweak the depth of this line to get the most volume out of my sump

 

[Leopard Man]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10050435#post10050435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by klam114
Just getting back to original question. Your sump size is too close for comfort as you don't have much room to work with for possible overflowing.

How about 15gal sump, 18x12x16?