Wireless RS232

[Shemp]

tonga_man,

Your ingenious solution might have helped me decide which controller to buy.

One question - once you get the ACII on the wire using the adapter, is it possible to monitor the status of the controller, turn devices on/off, etc. over ethernet like you can with the ACIII Pro? Or does this just make connecting with Aquanotes easier?

 

[kattner]

I have hooked up an ACII this way as well, but the purpose of it is to be able to access the ACII wirelessly over your network using Aquanotes. The ACII does not have an imbedded webserver like the ACIIIPro so you will need to run Aquanotes on a computer telling it that the ACII is hooked up as COM2 for example. Bottom line is that you will still need to use Aquanotes to control your ACII remotely. The serial to ethernet adapter and Dlink wireless bridge simply allow you to put the ACII on your LAN so that the computer running Aquanotes can be at any location on your LAN instead of right next to the tank.

On the computer running aquanotes you will need to be running the port redirector software that redirects COM traffic to a specific IP address on your lan (this is the Lantronix software tonga_man mentioned).

Here is how it works. There are two steps, one to get the serial ACII converted to ethernet and the second to get the wired ethernet to wireless ethernet. As to the first step, The ACII is connected to the serial to ethernet adapter that tonga_man says is made by Industrial Ethernet. This is a device that has a serial connection on one end and an ethernet connection on the other. Therefore the ACII is hooked up to the serial connection on the adapter. The adapter is then given a fixed IP address so you always know where it is on the network. In essence you have now given the ACII a fixed IP address on your network by hooking it up to the adapter. But so far this is a wired connection. The second step is to convert your wired ethernet connection to wireless. This is where the DLink wireless bridge comes in that Tonga_man mentions. To do this you connect the Dlink device to the ethernet jack on the serial to ethernet bridge. The serial to wireless bridge now makes the ACII available on your network wirelessly at a known and fixed IP address that you assigned in step one.

Finally, on the computer running aquanotes, you are also running the redirector software (called Lantronix). This software redirects communication traffic from the fixed IP address you assigned the ACII to the COM port you selected in Aquanotes. End result is that you can control the ACII through Aquanotes running on a computer located far away from the tank. You can even use the web server functionality in Aquanotes to view your tank over the internet...but that's another story. Hope this helps.



address will be t

 

[tonga_man]

That pretty much sums it all up...

You need aquanotes to configure the controller from the PC.

As for the ethernet/serial connection - it is configured by FIRST plugging it into an ethernet port on your system that is ALREADY connected to your pc. You then configure it the way you want (IP, subnet, gateway, baud, parity, stop bits, ports to use, etc.).

The bridge will be configured the same way - it must be physicaly connected to the PC FIRST, then configured as you did above (different IP).

Once you get that done - the two can be moved to the controller location and hooked up.

I run aquanotes on Com3 thru the redirector program even thou my server has only two physical com ports.

 

[kattner]

Right!

Further to the configuration - when I set up the serial to ethernet adapter I set it with a fixed IP. As to the Dlink wireless bridge you can leave that with a DHCP assigned IP address, but instead I also gave it a fixed IP address so I could always get back to it over the network at a known address instead of a DHCP assigned address that might change. If you use a fixed IP address for the Dlink, you have to make sure that the redirector software is configured with the fixed IP address of the serial to ethernet adapter (not the Dlink device).

 

[kattner]

Now, I'm replying to myself

At any rate here is another cool thing you can do. I have my computer running aquanotes out in the garage but my reef tank is in the house. I have remote desktop running on the computer in the garage with aquanotes. So, from any computer in the house (or you could do it over the internet I suppose) I can log into the computer running aquanotes (as if I were sitting right there at the terminal and control aquanotes, running graphs or turning things on and off. I was surprised at how well it works. Remote desktop comes with Windows XP and is kindalike a KVM switch over IP.

 

[Shemp]

So here's the big question -

Since I don't have any controller yet at this point, would I save anything buying the AC Pro and all the devices necessary to convert the RS232 to Ethernet, or would it be cheaper in the long run to just drop the hammer and buy the ACIII Pro? I could see it being cheaper if I went with the ACII, but I really want the conductivity monitoring that's only available in the AC Pro and ACIII Pro.

(Hope you guys don't mind me piggy-backing in on the discussion...)

 

[kattner]

I ended up going with the Pro because it was just a more elegant solution. Plus, with the Pro you can add Aquanotes later if you want since the Pro controller has a built in web server. With the Pro you just give it a fixed IP address, plug it into your network and then access it with any web browser. The web server in the Pro is more limited than what you can do with Aquanotes - for example you can't do any graphs with the built in web server. But, for checking your tank conditions and controlling things manually and with the program interface, the built in web server will work fine. Some people on this forum have even hooked the Pro unit up on their home network to allow it to be accessed outside their home network over the internet.

BTW, you still need the Dlink wireless bridge hooked up to the Pro unit if you want to access it wirelessly instead of over wired ethernet.

Hope this helps.

 

[lcdd]

great thread guys! 2 quick questions.

Kattner, do you have the ACPro or the IIIPro? In the comparisons between the controllers on Neptune's sights, the only one with a web server is the IIIPro. It seems that if the ACPro works well with this set up, why get the IIIPro?

Also, those running ACII, do you still have to use the $40 isolator or can that be eliminated now?

Lastly, would it be possible to run the RS232 to ethernet to wireless connection on a ACPro without Aquanotes? Tonga Man's link http://industrialethernet.com/net232-dte.html claimed a web server as a feature. What is the difference between this web server and the one built into the IIIPro? Do they not accomplish the same task?

I'm on the fence now between the II, ACPro and IIIPro. I'm kinda of leaning towards the ACPro, but the III w/out Aquanotes seems competive also if it works well. The computer interface is very important, but if I can do it without Aquanotes that would be great. The money saved in the software can be applied to upgrading the hardware.

 

[gotfrogs]

kattner, I also have remote desktop running on my "fish PC." It doesn't even have a monitor or keyboard connected, just a USB 802.11b adapter. I use it with DNS2go so that I can connect to it anywhere I have internet access.

 

[kattner]

lcdd:

I have the ACIIIPro. It is the only one with an imbeded webserver that can give you live stats and programming features without aquanotes. So, you have to get the ACIIIPro in order to get the webserver.

If you have the ACII or ACPro you need Aquanotes to be able to access it remotely and serve up web pages and check your tank remotely.

The point of hooking up the ACII wirelessly with the bridges etc is so that you can put the computer running aquanotes far away from the tank. You still need aquanotes for this. You cannot access the ACII or ACPro via computer without aquanotes.

The serial to ethernet adapter mentioned by tonga_man also has an imbeded webserver but that webserver is on a chip inside the adapter and is used for setting up the adapter and has nothing to do with any of the Aquacontrollers.

Gotfrogs:

That sounds very cool. A headless PC with DNStogo!


On selecting between the ACs, I think it depends on whether you need the conductivity probe or ethernet interface. If you must have conductivity probe, then you have to go with one of the Pro units and it might as well be the IIIPro since it has the remote access features built in and you can access it via computer without aquanotes.

As for me, I'm not using the conductivity probe, I really wanted the ethernet interface - so that was the most important to me, that's why I got the ACIIIPro. So, I'm using the ACIIIPro hooked up to the DLink wireless bridge - and thats the only device near my tank. The computer running aquanotes that "talks" to the ACIIIPro is out back in the garage. This aquanotes computer is also running a webserver that serves up the pages from aquanotes showing the data aquanotes gets over my home lan from the ACIIIPro. I can check the tank over the internet anytime.

 

[Shemp]

So what I'm reading here is that to really do things right - if you're interested in monitoring/controlling the tank from anywhere via the internet - you'd want the ACIII Pro, a DLink wireless bridge, and a PC running Aquanotes. I get the impression that the built-in web server on the III Pro is somewhat limited in it's functionality?

So my question is: if I went with the ACIII Pro, what more would I be able to do if I bundle it with Aquanotes, even though it isn't absolutely necessary in order to connect to the controller remotely?

 

[kattner]

If you have an ethernet jack near the fish tank or can run a wire from the fish tank (connected to the ACIIIPro) to your router or hub, then you don't need the Dlink - you can save about $100 there. All you need to do is somehow get an ethernet wire to the fish tank and you can do without the DLink. In my case, I couldn't run the wire so I had to go wireless.

The webserver on the ACIIIPro has fewer features than aquanotes. You could always try it and see if it is enough for you. It will not make the nice pretty graphs like aquanotes will, it will not send email alarms if your email requires authentication (it will do it if the email server does not require a password for outgoing email), You can't store notes etc. and once the log inside the ACIIIPro fills up it will overwrite the oldest entries. Aquanotes will constantly poll the ACIIIPro and download the log. For example I have over one year of log entries for temp, pH and ORP on aquanotes, every hour, every day, for over a year.

The ACIIIPro webserver will however allow you to view tank stats in real time, view the log stored in the ACIIIPro and view and make changes to the program running inside the ACIIIPro. This last feature is very nice since you can modify the program with a keyboard instead of punching buttons on the ACIIIPro front panel.

Some people have hooked the ACIIIPro up to their home network and have configured their router to direct web access to the ACIIIPro so that they can check the tank stats over the internet while away from home. All this can be done without a computer running aquanotes.

But for what its worth, I really like aquanotes since I can log in notes about water changes and livestock issues and capture data pver a long period.

 

[clp]

You don't really need authentication on email since there is only one destination email address that the controller is sending the email to. Simply look up the mx mail server name and put that in the smtp server field. One such website to lookup the server is http://www.hashemian.com/tools/domain-email.php. For example I looked up foo@hotmail.com, and I got mx1.hotmail.com. So if I wanted the AquaController to send emails to foo@hotmail.com, I'd enter mx1.hotmail.com for the mail server and foo@hotmail.com for the email to address.

Curt

 

[Joboo]

You don't really need authentication on email since there is only one destination email address that the controller is sending the email to. Simply look up the mx mail server name and put that in the smtp server field. One such website to lookup the server is http://www.hashemian.com/tools/domain-email.php. For example I looked up foo@hotmail.com, and I got mx1.hotmail.com. So if I wanted the AquaController to send emails to foo@hotmail.com, I'd enter mx1.hotmail.com for the mail server and foo@hotmail.com for the email to address.

Curt

This is true if the mail server you are sending out from does not require password authentication. What happens if you use a mail server that needs password authentication?? Or your ISP blcokes port 25 outgoing?? More and more ISP providers are requiring password authentication which could affect the ACIII Pro's ability to send out email. ARe there plans for an upgraded FW that will included password authentication and maybe even the ability to change the port used to send the email for the ACIII Pro?

By the way,

Hotmail does not allow relaying so the above will not work.

thx

 

[clp]

Sending email directly to the server responsible for the email account is not relaying; it is the normal way that email is delivered. For example when you send email from your home PC to foo@hotmail the mail goes something like this:

1. Home PC connects to ISP mail server port 25 (may require authentication)
2. ISP mail server connects to email server of the destination email address (foo@hotmail.com in this case) - no authentication from your mail server is required - the ISP server does not have an email account, has no password, etc.

Since the server of the destination email requires no authentication, this is one of the main reasons spam is so prevalent. BTW, I just tested this with a AC3PRO and was able to directly send email to my hotmail account using the mx1.hotmail.com mail server.
The ISP blocking port 25 can indeed cause this to not work. So far, I heard that the ISP will unblock this port to other IP addresses if you ask.
BTW, we are planning on adding authentication in a future firmware release.

Curt

 

[Joboo]

Oopps.. I didn't see that you were sending to foo@hotmail.com. In that case then your right, it is not relaying since the sender and receiver are local to the mail server. My bad, that would work. However, not all ISP's will unblock port 25 and most providers are/will be requiring PA even if it is a local user. I guess the best thing to do is open a hotmail account(since it is free) and use that for the time being. However, it probably won't be long before Microsoft requires PA. How about being able to change the port mail goes out? Do you think that can be added to the update?

 

[clp]

If you change the port, what is it going to communicate with on the other side? The smtp servers are expecting the connection on port 25.
The whole smtp/email protocol has to be changed in order for authentication to be required when sending email to an address served by the email server. Changes will happen someday, but it is huge/complex issues as the whole internet email protocol must change to new scheme. I don't expect it to be required anytime soon.

Curt

 

[Joboo]

If you change the port, what is it going to communicate with on the other side? The smtp servers are expecting the connection on port 25.
The whole smtp/email protocol has to be changed in order for authentication to be required when sending email to an address served by the email server. Changes will happen someday, but it is huge/complex issues as the whole internet email protocol must change to new scheme. I don't expect it to be required anytime soon.

Curt

Not if the smtp server you use is expecting traffic on a different port. What this will do is get around the ISP port blocking of 25. Lets say you use port 2525 instead. Just set the smtp traffic to use port 2525 and then use a mail server that will accept smtp traffic over 2525 and then that server will relay out over port 25 to the recipient. There are mail relay servers out there that you can use for small fee($20 per yr) that will do this.

 

[kattner]

Instead of all that hassle, why not just change to a service provider that doesn't block port 25 or fill out one of the request forms to unblock it. That way you don't have to spend an extra $25 for the relay server. What I did is just get a series of fixed IP addresses from SBC and on that kind of account they don't block port 25. It isn't very expensive. This way, I am able to get email alerts anytime and even have them directed to my blackberry so I get them immediately even when I'm away from a computer. Believe it or not, the web browser on my blackbery will allow me to log into aquanotes to view real time stats and even turn things on and off.

 

[Joboo]

Instead of all that hassle, why not just change to a service provider that doesn't block port 25 or fill out one of the request forms to unblock it. That way you don't have to spend an extra $25 for the relay server. What I did is just get a series of fixed IP addresses from SBC and on that kind of account they don't block port 25. It isn't very expensive. This way, I am able to get email alerts anytime and even have them directed to my blackberry so I get them immediately even when I'm away from a computer. Believe it or not, the web browser on my blackbery will allow me to log into aquanotes to view real time stats and even turn things on and off.

Some people(alot) do not have the flexiblity to change ISP's. If you are in an area that has a High speed Cable provider & DSL provider there may not be any other third party providers available and if both block port 25 you have no choice but to use a mail server that can relay mail via a different port other than 25. And if you are stuck with cable modem service most if not all providers do not allow static IP configurations. If password authentication can be added to the software then port flexiblity should be just as easy. There are also some free mail relay services out there. You just have to look.

Yeah I know what you mean about the Blackberry. I tried from one once and got the same thing. However, you can access it from a pocket PC based PDA.