Worried. Should I Purchase from TBS?

[layer3switchguy]

Folks,

I was going to post this on the TBS forum, but thought I might get some better traffic on the other forums here. Anyway, decided to post here as well.

I'm at the point where I need to purchase my live rock and sand, and have been considering Tampa Bay Saltwater. Some of the reading I've done suggests this rock has way to many bad hitchhikers, and as a newbie I'm worried this may harm my chances of success. I'm still learning, so I'm limited still on how to id good -vs- bad stiff on the rocks and sand, and remove it.

Are there better sources elsewhere, or is this a safe choice for success.

Thanks,
L3

 

[Spongeguy]

Despite bat hitchikers, I love my TBS rock

Despite bat hitchikers, I love my TBS rock

Hey L3,

I am also a beginner and purchased live rock from TBS about 3 weeks ago for my first tank. I have my first part of "The Pakage" and am VERY happy with it.

I have at least 3 mantis shrimp, several gorilla crabs and at least on bristle worm. I know that when I get the second part of my package I will have more bad hitchhikers. The mantis have been systematically eating my barnacles (or whatever they are). It ticked me off initially and I have been trying to catch them for about 2 weeks now. Yesterday I caught my first mantis. After several seriouse attempts and failures (I have been unlucky with traps) I scooped it out with a net of all things. I took it down to a local saltwater shop and they were happy to take it.



I have two more mantis to go but for me thats OK as I am not in a rush. I have spent manny hours enjoying my rock. I have at least two different kinds of anenomes I have been feeding (after cycling was complete) and have live coral, several types of sponges, barnacles, probably 5 kinds of crabs, many sea stars, lots of tunicates some of which have died, tiny little feather dusters and a bunch of stuff that I cannot identify.

Its been fun and I am going to get my second part as soon as I get the other mantis out.

I have no experience or knowledge about the other cultured live rock vendors. But I would recommend buying live rock from TBS over the dead rock the saltwater shops sell (at least in Tucson and Phoenix).

For a closer look at TBS rock look at Red-Six's pics.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=842093


Cheers,

Spongeguy

 

[chrisstie]

Considering your tank will need time to cycle I don't think the bad hitchikers are such a bad thing- You'll have plenty of time to identify and capture them before they could do any harm to what you will end up stocking your tank with weeks after setting everything up.

 

[650-IS350]

Hey Spongeguy, question for you..

When you got you package from tbs, did you get sponge die off? I ordered 100lbs of coral rock and after the 2nd day had a bunch of the white and red sponges die off and turn grey/black.. plus they emitted a horrible worse than rotten egg smell.

It made my ammonia spike to 5-7. after a week though I finally got it down to 1-2.

not trying to highjack here.. sorry

 

[Spongeguy]

Hey delsol,

Yes. I had some white sponges die. Mostly this was restricted to a large white sponge - about the size of a deck of cards. After a week I removed it. I have several other smaller white sponges that are still fine. I have some black spots on the rock but am not sure what it is.

I also had some jet black tunicates die off. However, now - about 4 weeks into it I am seeing growth of some bright orange stuff which I think are sponges.

Spongeguy

 

[ybenormal]

Many sponges will die off if exposed to the air even for brief periods. Many others will not live in captivity at all or die off after a short period of time.

 

[650-IS350]

Are you setting up a new tank to have to TBS cycle it? if so you could also use Cycle ( bacteria ) to help culture your tank and speed up cycling process.

 

[Jeanniee]

The most amazing live rock anywhere. I want a new tank just to get more.

 

[bobt2]

i bought a tbs package 18 months ago for my first reef tank. was it worth it? i now have 3 reef tanks with tbs rock! altho the mantis may not be the best thing in the world, don't believe everything about all the other bad hitchhickers. i still have one or two gorrillas in the first tank and i can't see any damage so i stopped worrying. i,ve left some urchins in and the limpets. the reason i got tbs was to be as natural as possible. i.ve got what i wanted and couldn't be happier. bobt

 

[Grand Wazoo]

+1 What Bob said...

I've had Richards rock for 6 months now and everything is still alive except the sponge. I also have two gorilla crabs in my tank that don't bother a soul.

 

[ppht]

Hi All.
I just setup my new tank. I saw the picks above from TBS and they look great. I was wondering roughly what have people been paying for shipping and how are they shipped?

 

[bobt2]

for me, it's southwest. i have a major airport 20 miles away. direct flights from tpa. shipping is about $50-60 per half

 

[650-IS350]

for my 100lbs of coral encrusted rock from tbs.. cost me about 120 for 6 boxes delivered to Oak. Airport in the bayarea. Richard advised not to have it sent to SF since it costs a lot more...

I definitely had a lot of sponge die of since I did take more time hunting for hitchhickers prior to putting the rock in the tank. ( took a few seconds scanning each rock prior to putting back in water )... but a month and a half now and a buch of sponges are thriving... orange, yellow ( bee hive looking ) red, different colors. Tubes, tunnicates etc... I feed mine micro vert...

THANKS RICHARD! you were right, I wouldn't be dissapointed with the rock you gave me.

One thing though is no matter how many times you think you got rid of all the bad hitchhickers ( iE' gorrila, rock crabs ) you will still find new ones crawling around the tank at night. I kind of have fun a night hunting them and stabbing the little bastards.. hahhah.

 

[650-IS350]

another thing.... if you have T-5's or MH.. make sure you put the brown cup corals as low as possible... I don't think they like the bright lights as much.. the one that I have that I could not drop down in the tank bleached ( turned pale white ) but still alive and doing well. Pull out the caulerpa as they might grow crazy in your tank.. scrape off the green hair that comes with some of the rock.

 

[watchdr]

I guess I am the only one disappointed with the rock. My first batch was much better than the second. The first half of the 50 LB package had 100% more good life on it and should have come after the base rock that was sent second.

I don't know if this was a mix up by TBS but that alone was disappointing.

Then the 5 mantis shrimps and the 64+(and counting) gorilla crabs have been a real pain. I hate taking half the rocks out everyday to get rid of more crabs. I now have 4 more I just found. I will again have to take nearly half the rocks out to get to those 4 crabs. This is rediculous!

Every time I do this the rocks have less chance of keeping any real life on them. At the slow rate of finding these pests and the incredibly high number of them in the rocks that keep coming out I won't be rid of them for about 6 months to a year.

If you want to be picking these things out of your rocks for that long then go for it. Me I won't buy from TBS again.

I am very disappointed in this rock and the overall service.

Out of all the questions I asked only about 4 or 5 were answered all other were ignored as if TBS didn't care.

Yes, this was my stupidity but it won't happen again. I have bought live rock from several other companies in the past and NEVER had problems getting questions answered and NEVER had problems with so many bad hitchhikers.

My advice to a newbie.

Stay away from TBS rock. You will be 1000 times happier with rock from just about anyone else.

The only good thing is I did get one of those cute little gobies and an extra starfish. Richard did send a flower and condy anemone which is ok but the shrimp lasted just a few hours before it ended up in the condy. Wasted life there. Putting any anemone in a just setup tank in my opinion is wasting life. There is almost no chance these will live for very long because of the cycle and the constant removal of the rocks to remove the pests.

I would have rather bought these extras when the time was right.

 

[ppht]

watchdr,
I think you are being a little rough on TBS and Rich. He has emailed me back everytime all the time within minutes and answered every question. Also if you are buying LR with alot of life on it the good comes with the bad. I too have mantis shrimp and gorillas with mine but he stated it clearly on his site. Also I dont think they ever claimed it to be Hitchhiker free. You might be upset but if you went to a local store and started buying all the snails, hermits, rock etc it would definitely be more than double.. Just my 2 cents.. It was just the part in your post that he doesnt answer calls or emails that got me.

 

[Qwiv]

I like my TBS rock except for the gorilla crabs. Those buggers grow big and nasty. I caught all the large ones when I got the rock and started stocking the tank. Later the little guys I missed started to grow up into big guys and became a problem in a stocked tank. My rock is almost 2 years old now, and I still have a few gorillas in there reaking havoc. I have witnessed one grab a hermit crab and take it into its lair. I think it ate it. That didn't worry me to much. My big problem was one day I fed my sweet RBTA a piece of shrimp. I then noticed a gorilla then tear my anenome apart to get to the shrimp. Tentacles where floating around the tank. Now my RBTA is pretty much toast, it is slowly shrinking and looking worse.

I am very mixed about the expeience. I have lost much of the life on the rocks over the years, but they still look nicer than other rock. I take pretty good care of the tank and feed it phyto, etc. I am ****ed my RBTA is pretty much lost.

 

[watchdr]

ppht,

First since you don't know the facts of my experience how can you comment on wether or not I am being too harsh??

Your experience is different from mine and just because yours was satisfactory to you does not mean mine was satisfactory.

If you read my post I stated he did not answer my questions. Not emails or calls. Questions.

I never said I expected the rocks to be hitchhiker free. I did not expect to spend months removing them. From all the other rocks I have bought over the years from many other vendors I have never experienced this extreme amount of bad hitchhikers.

Of the 'good' hitchhikers that were sent they added up to no more than a hundred dollars at most. For the aggrevation of having to remove the rock everyday to get rid of more hitchhikers I would gladly have paid a measly hundred bucks for the good ones.

So before you reply to a post please read it more carefully. I am not being too harsh as you claim. I am being truthful and have every right to be.

Let me ask you - did your second batch of rocks come with less life on it than the first???

My second batch looks like dead base rock except for the bad hitchhikers!

My first batch of rocks came with abundant life on it. It actually looks like it was in the ocean. The second batch I doesn't look like it was. Not that he would lie I am not saying that. I am saying it is devoid of life other than the bad hitchhikers. It definitely is not the good rock he shows on his site.

Also I am not saying it wasn't right to ship it. I think it should have been shipped first since it was obviously not the primo rock he shows on his site.

I am sure there are others that are happy with the rock they got and maybe you and they didn't have many questions. I didn't think I had many but every email he would not answer them. Some I asked more than once. That shows me he doesn't care.

The whole experience I had with TBS was way below what anyone would expect. I am sure it was way below what you experienced as well.

It's wrong for you to bash me and what I said unless you have experienced what I have.

I have just as much right to post my experience and frustrations as you do. I never bashed you and what you posted so why are you doing so to me?

 

[ppht]

I am not bashing you at all. I just find it hard that he wouldnt answer your questions. Thats all I am saying. He answered all mine from day one via email within 5 mins even on weekends. I talked to himonce on the phone and he is very passionate about what he does. I am too in business and got a vibe that a guy like that doesnt help his business by avoiding problems but by dealing with them head on..

My pics of both my rock deliveries are on my www. link.
I think both my deliveries had some rock with tons of life and the ones that I would label not the same would still have double the life of what I would buy at any store.

 

[watchdr]

ppht,

He obviously treated you better than me. I too own a business and understand your statement about answering questions. But the fact is he did not answer mine.

Thats a fact wether or not you want to believe it is up to you. I could send you all the emails back and forth and you will clearly see he did not answer them.

I shouldn't have to prove it. I have no reason to lie and for you to say that it is hard to believe is logical. But, why would I lie? I have no reason to. When you say that it is hard to believe he wouldn't have answered my questions you are calling me a liar. And that is not right espceially since you don't have the facts.

Next, the pictures of your rock. I can't determine which rock was first and which was second. You have some listed as second but none listed as first.

What you have listed as second is like what I got in my first shipment. Now take your rock and remove everything from it. No coral, no algea, no coraline algea, no sponges, no tunicates.. nothing on them except mantis and gorilla crabs crawling all over and inside them.

Again I am not lying. Why would I? What would I have to gain?

I certainly did not expect the good looking rock on the first order. When it came in I was very surprised and was looking forward to the second batch.

When the second came with nothing on them I was very dissapointed. Even if they had looked like the first batch I would have been happy with the way the rock looked.

Paying a high price for this dead rock I feel is a ripoff. Obviously your experience was different and had I gotten rock that looked like yours I would have been happy.

To top off getting the dead rock I got hundreds of bad hitchhikers. If the rock looked like yours I would have dealt with the hitchhikers and not been upset.

If I wanted dead rock I could have ordered from many other suppliers.

After the first batch and all the hitchhikers on it I thought it was a hassle removing them but wasn't disappointed. But getting the second batch of dead rock with more bad hitchikers than the first has ****ed me off.

I paid for live rock not dead rock.

Dr. Mac sells basically dead rock for $99 for 50lbs. I could have saved several hundred dollars right there. And shipping would have been less than half. Second I would have known I was getting rock that had most of the life dead or dying.

When richard makes the claim and shows the rock you get in your package as being full of life and then sends rock that is more dead than what I would have bought from anyone else I have a right to be ****ed. But just because I am ****ed doesn't mean I am going to lie about it.

I will try to get some pictures tonight of the dead rock and post them so you can see for yourself they are no where near what your rock looks like.

Again why would I lie??? My experience was not what it should have been. And you aren't making it any better. Maybe some help on your part would have been a better tack than calling me a liar.