Wrought Iron and Interruptus with Crypto

[ColtonNelly]

Hi everyone,

I recently acquired two very special fish: a Wrought Iron Butterfly (Chaetodon daedalma ~1.75") and an Interruptus Angel (Centropyge interruptus ~2.5"). I received these fish yesterday morning, and am very impressed with how readily they eat frozen foods. They both absolutely chow down. This morning I noticed a few spots appear on the butterfly, and there are a few more now. This definitely appears to be ich. The angel looks very clean except for one spot.

They are currently in a 60 gallon QT tank with a thin layer of sand and some rock from the refugium of my DT. I usually don't quarantine in an "established" quarantine like this, but because of their small size I was afraid to QT in a completely sterile environment. They started picking at the rocks as soon as they went into the tank and shortly after began eating frozen with gusto.

My question isn't really whether to treat for crypto or not, it's when and how. I definitely don't want them to get worse, but other than these visible spots they look and act healthier than I could have imagined.

As far as treatment goes, I'm a little weary of using copper because of these two fish in particular. Tank transfer isn't really ideal either because I'd prefer to keep stress at a minimum. I'm not crazy about hypo either. With that said, I do have Chloroquine Phosphate, however I have only used it one time and lost one fish out of eight treated. I am currently leaning toward using CP, but wanted to know what some of you thought. I am also not sure if I should start to treat right now or allow the fish to settle in a little bit more before treating.

I sincerely appreciate all of your help!

-Colton

 

[CoralsAddiction]

I am definitely a proponent of letting fish settle in when they are new AND aren't exhibiting any sign of illness. However your case seems to be different. I would start appropriate treatment immediately without delay. Good luck!

 

[ColtonNelly]

I am definitely a proponent of letting fish settle in when they are new AND aren't exhibiting any sign of illness. However your case seems to be different. I would start appropriate treatment immediately without delay. Good luck!

Thank you for the reply. I'm curious to see what you guys think about treatment methods as well as timing. These fish are known to be sensitive to certain meds. Also to note, the tank has been stable around 74 degrees, as these are cooler water species.

 

[ColtonNelly]

There are maybe a few less spots now, however I am all but certain that it is ich. The fish are still looking and acting great in addition to eating well. I am leaning toward doing a half dose of CP tonight, and as long as they handle it well bump it up to a full dose tomorrow. Any experts out there that can chime in?

 

[Shanet]

First up, I am by no stretch of the imagination an "expert " but I have used CP to treat my Regal Angel. I had velvet go through my tank and wiped out 6 Anthias of the 8 fish i had in it. As soon as the first fish was found dead I treated my 650 litre DT (FOWLR) after removing all invertebrates. It was that quick that the fish didn't get sick, they were good then died. I dosed at a rate of 10mg/liter and within 24 hrs I had no more losses. The Regal went through the whole treatment unaffected, no loss of appetite or lethargy. I would go full strength immediately, CP is a great medicine to use without side effects. Wrasses are known to suffer from CP so I wouldn't use it on them.

 

[humaguy]

just replied to your pm, sorry for the delay...

improvement?

 

[ColtonNelly]

Update

Update

Thank you Shane and Ted. I decided not to treat last night, and I'm glad I didn't. Both fish look great right now. The Interruptus is clean and there is maybe a spot or two on the Wrought Iron. As of now I am going to closely monitor them and assure that they settle in properly before medicating.

 

[tylersarah]

I would put them through tank transfer, it's not that stressful. I use square shaped colanders to catch the fish and since it's so early in the morning they are sleepy and barely even react to the colander. Use PVC for hangouts, a powerhead (not too strong) and an air stone, voila. All my fish handle it with ease, even the butterflyfish.

 

[snorvich]

I would put them through tank transfer, it's not that stressful. I use square shaped colanders to catch the fish and since it's so early in the morning they are sleepy and barely even react to the colander. Use PVC for hangouts, a powerhead (not too strong) and an air stone, voila. All my fish handle it with ease, even the butterflyfish.

Exactly. Note that lack of visible signs of ich does not mean that ich is gone. It has simply moved on to another stage of the life cycle. It does, however, mean that the tank containing these fish now "has ich".

 

[ColtonNelly]

Exactly. Note that lack of visible signs of ich does not mean that ich is gone. It has simply moved on to another stage of the life cycle. It does, however, mean that the tank containing these fish now "has ich".

Thanks for the feedback. I do understand the life cycle of the parasite. I will treat these fish for crypto as well as sterilize the tank. I'm just curious to see about when you think it would be best to treat and how. In my experience Ich does not kill that quickly especially when stress is minimized. I have been too quick and too slow to act in the past and suffered some consequences. With my current setup, I feel like CP is the best route. I'd prefer to keep them in a larger tank and have never done TT. Would you agree?

 

[snorvich]

Ich is a parasite that eventually overwhelms as it exponentially increases in number from life cycle to life cycle. It is not going to be a quick mortality as would be experienced with velvet, brook, uronema.

 

[ColtonNelly]

Ich is a parasite that eventually overwhelms as it exponentially increases in number from life cycle to life cycle. It is not going to be a quick mortality as would be experienced with velvet, brook, uronema.

Thank you for that information Steve. Like I said, I am going to treat these fish for Ich. I was wondering what you all thought about the timing and method of treatment with the information that I provided.

Colton

 

[CoralsAddiction]

Wrought Iron and Interruptus with Crypto

Thank you for that information Steve. Like I said, I am going to treat these fish for Ich. I was wondering what you all thought about the timing and method of treatment with the information that I provided.



Colton

What I read in between the lines in Steves post is sooner the better bc as time goes by the parasite multiplies to the level that will eventually overwhelm the animals and render any treatments useless.

 

[CoralsAddiction]

As far as timeframe for treatment it depends what you choose. Copper usually kills the parasite in 7-10 days and then you observe the animals for a few weeks.

 

[snorvich]

As far as timeframe for treatment it depends what you choose. Copper usually kills the parasite in 7-10 days and then you observe the animals for a few weeks.

I think that 30 days is much better. But the guaranteed 100% time is 72 days.

 

[Dmorty217]

I think that 30 days is much better. But the guaranteed 100% time is 72 days.

This is a good rule of thumb, chloroquine Phophate has been documented eradicating ich in as little as 10 days but the longer the better and more time to make sure all ich life cycle has completely died off

 

[CoralsAddiction]

This is a good rule of thumb, chloroquine Phophate has been documented eradicating ich in as little as 10 days

That's what I meant. Good chance it will be gone within ten days and anything beyond that is a safer bet.

 

[ColtonNelly]

Thank you all! I guess it can be a little difficult to convey my exact questions. I will begin CP treatment in the morning and plan on treating for a month. Originally when I was asking about timing, I meant how long to wait until I begin treatment. Sorry for the confusion! It seems like they have settled in well. I'll post updates as treatment progresses. They really are two beautiful fish!

I'm planning on removing all rock and sand that is currently in there. I've read things about Chloroquine Phosphate not being absorbed by those materials. However, it doesn't seem worth the risk and the CP should kill off what the fish were picking at anyway, so there would no longer be any purpose to the rock! Thanks again everyone.

 

[snorvich]

I tried to suggest that beginning treatment of ich is not urgent because of the nature of the disease. Two weeks to acclimate the fish and build up their eating response would not be critical. If it were not for the need to keep the water temperature fairly low (these fish are not tropical) tank transfer would still be the treatment of choice.

 

[jrobison]

I too am about to start treating with Chloroquine. I seem to have gathered that you use the base amount in the pill when calculating the dosage. Also, it doesn't seem to lose concentration other than when doing water changes. Does everyone concur with this
?