yellow eyed kole tang died...why?

[hrairguitar]

Hey all

My yellow eyed joke tang died randomly last night
:-(
It was the newest fish in my tank and only had it for a little over a week

I did a 15% water change last night. I tested water before I put it in too and all levels were right on. I then tested tank water and only thing was that slight trace of nitrites but nitrates were still high (around 50 ppm)

After I changed the water I fed the fish and everything ate including the tang. Then 2 hours later I noticed it on its side twitching and then it was dead.

Everything else in tank is acting normal. I have a blue tang and coral cat shark and inverts. Id think they would be impacted too if it was a water issue. Just before it died I noticed it was covered in white spots which was something I hadn't ever seen on it. Now granted I didn't constantly check it but I didn't think ich would kill a fish instantly like that. The fish was pretty chill and hid a lot but started coming out more each day. Initially it was chased by the coral beauty but after a day or so that war ended quickly and they swam around together

Corals are open too

Any thoughts?

 

[Vince272992]

well how big was the tang when u got him... did he have full color when u bought him...and he might have had ick the whole time u had him, but u may not have noticed cause it was probably small at the time and escalated very fast

 

[hrairguitar]

He was probably 3ish inches.....and his coloring seemed fine from what I could tell. I'd say the tank he was in at the LFS was 20 or 30 gallons mixed with 5 ( think yellow tangs and butterflies) or so other fish its size and a few smaller fish (gobies). The guy at the LFS said he'd had that fish in there for 2 weeks so that was why I figured he'd make a good purchase. Maybe that 2 weeks in the LFS was too long? It's just hard to sit with since it happened 2 hours after a water change so I immediately think that I did something wrong. It was too big for the shark to mess with and didnt have any injuries and nothing harassed it. It went like this...water change, 1 hour later fed fish and it was eating and swimming, then 1 hour later it was dead

Really cool fish and was quickly becoming one of my faves and I was super stoked that it got along with everyone.

 

[Kahuna Tuna]

In an established tank you really shouldn't get any nitrite reading at all and this concerns me, I'm wondering if you might not of had a small ammonia spike as well. I have personally found bristletooth tangs to be on the touchy side, especially when new to the system and I'm thinking you might have an underlying water quality issue. If there was a water problem the new fish would probably be the first to show it. Honestly thats not much tank for a shark and they do produce a lot of waste.

 

[hrairguitar]

Ammonia was very low to borderline non existant. The same day I added the tang I also added a valentini puffer and it's still acting normal. The puffer though was kept in the front of the fish store and the tang was way in the back so I'm assuming the tanks were ran through different systems

The nitrite reading was very faint..so faint that it was hard to match it to any color on the color chart........my nitrates always seem to be high and it's been a battle that I can't seem to win....The test I did were PH, Alk, Nitrate, Nitrite and Ammonia....the only one that raised an eyebrow was the Nitrite

 

[Dragon moray ki]

I agree it could have been a mini cycle. I have a a little nitrite in my tank right now too and when I get home I'm going to do a water change and I suggest you do the same.

 

[Dragon moray ki]

Sorry if it sounded pushy I would do a 50 gallon water change.

 

[rssjsb]

Ammonia was very low to borderline non existant. The nitrite reading was very faint..so faint that it was hard to match it to any color on the color chart

I hate hate hate those stupid color strips for this very reason - they're imprecise in ways that often leave me wondering if I'm imagining something.

Having said that, you should not ever have any measurable ammonia or nitrite in your tank. I agree with Kahuna Tuna that kole tangs are on the sensitive end of the spectrum. They are quite ich-prone, too, but that doesn't usually end in death so quickly. Sounds like a water quality issue. Are you using RO or dechlorinated tap for your change water? If the former, it might be time to change the membranes. If the latter, be sure you're using a dechlorinator that treats chloramine. Water systems sometimes spike these chemicals.

 

[hrairguitar]

Sorry if it sounded pushy I would do a 50 gallon water change.

another water change?

I dont think I have enough water made to do that right now. I had about 35 gallons made of it and used 22 on last nights water change. The remaining water is intended for top offs. I can make some more water but I like to wait at least 48 hours after mixing before I add to the tank

I'll re-test the water when I get off work. My test kit is made from Marine Lab. I'm not a fan of it at all. When I've taken my water to LFS they say "oh you have really great water and your levels are basically the same as us"....but when I get home and I test it on mine I dont see it as perfect...I mean i dont see any glaring issues but I wouldnt say its perfect

This nitrite issue might be nothing. Like I said the color of the test tube is so faint that its hard to match to anything on the color scale. The tank has been up and running for 4 months....I have 90 lbs live rock, 140 lbs of live sand. A little over a week ago I did add a 20lb bag of sand to it...it was that sand in a bag with water thats supposedly already cycled with bacteria and all that

 

[hrairguitar]

I hate hate hate those stupid color strips for this very reason - they're imprecise in ways that often leave me wondering if I'm imagining something.

Having said that, you should not ever have any measurable ammonia or nitrite in your tank. I agree with Kahuna Tuna that kole tangs are on the sensitive end of the spectrum. They are quite ich-prone, too, but that doesn't usually end in death so quickly. Sounds like a water quality issue. Are you using RO or dechlorinated tap for your change water? If the former, it might be time to change the membranes. If the latter, be sure you're using a dechlorinator that treats chloramine. Water systems sometimes spike these chemicals.

I usually use RO water....if I'm broke then I'll use tap water and fill it up in 1 gallon jugs with the dechlor that says it detoxifies nitrite and ammonia (and something else). I then leave the cap off the jugs and set them by the window for up to a week with the occasional shake. I'd say its been about a 80/20 ratio of RO to tap water for topping off and water changes. I've never added water that was quickly mixed with salt/dechlor straight from the tap

I'm eager to re-test the water and check the tank when I get home from work.

 

[rssjsb]

I take it from your response that your'e buying RO. From your LFS? What kind of dechlorinator are you using when you use tap?

It may well be that your source water isn't the problem and, as Kahuna Tuna suggests, you've simply got too many nutrients in your tank from the shark and other fish.

 

[Dragon moray ki]

If your buying water I would invest in an rodi unit. You can get them for about 100 bucks in someplaces.

 

[hrairguitar]

So I went home on lunch break and checked out the tank and tested the water. Everything was swimming around business as usual. The shark was in its cave breathing regularly and the corals were open with cleaner shrimp and inverts all walking around. The skimmer was pulling out the thick foam as well. I had the setting to where it would pull out more liquid that foam which forced me to clean the thing daily so I adjusted it a couple days ago so that its producing the thicker foam

Only thing I noticed was a dead porcelain crab (i think unless it molted) but that could have been the work of the valentini puffer. He likes to pick at things if I dont constantly feed it. To protect the snails and crabs I had been occasionally attaching a tail of a shrimp to a veggie clip so he get his fix and pick away and I'd remove it after an hour.

Water tests showed up the same. PH (7.8) and Alk were normal (doesnt give a #, just a color), Ammonia was on the reallllllly low side. Not quite zero but almost. Nitrite was still difficult to read with my crappy Red Sea test kit but I'm going to error on the side of caution and say it was too high. I didnt bother testing nitrates because they are always high.

The stuff I use is called Seachem Prime

The water I use is from the grocery store. Its 89 cents a gallon and its called Purified/Reverse Osmosis

I have 16 gallons of mixed tap water with the Seachem Prime thats been sitting for a few days but I'm reluctant to use it now for a water change so I'm going to pick up a bunch of water from the store tonight and mix it up for 6 hours and do another change tonight and tomorrow and however long it takes me to where I see clear zero coloring for nitrites.

Question though.....Is it even worth it to do all that if the fish/inverts/corals I have now are all doing fine? Wouldnt the nitrite turn into nitrate on its own over time? If I had multiple fish dying then I wouldnt question it but since my original fish are all fine then I'm just curious. It seems like anything new I add to the tank dies. In the past few weeks I've tried to add a Copperband, dead, Cleaner Wrasse, dead, Kole eye tang, dead...the only thing thats survived is the valentini puffer. I made the mistake of not researching the cleaner wrasse enough before purchase and my LFS didnt warn me against it and the LFS said the Copperband would be fine....those 2 fish died within 2 days though. The tang lasted about a week and a half and showed zero signs of anything wrong with it.

its very upsetting when one of my beloved fish dies. I also find it strange that my blue tang thrives and my shark is doing just fine and I do all kinds of research and talk to my LFS regularly to make sure I'm doing as much right as I possibly can but yet I still lose a fish every now and then

 

[dlp211]

I personally would get a better NO2 kit and an Seachem ammonia alert badge. At home kits can be poorly designed and hard to read, and if they aren't normalized you could very well have zero's across the board but be showing higher.

Assuming that your kits are accurate though, your system is at its tipping point, NO2 should not be detectable, nor should ammonia. Adding any additional bioload without an additional ability to handle it will just result in more death.

Your livestock list is large IMO for a 125 and with serious predators (sloppy eaters) you need to have an amazing bio filter.

I would look to reduce your bioload by setting up another tank or selling off some of your livestock.

 

[hrairguitar]

I personally would get a better NO2 kit and an Seachem ammonia alert badge. At home kits can be poorly designed and hard to read, and if they aren't normalized you could very well have zero's across the board but be showing higher.

Assuming that your kits are accurate though, your system is at its tipping point, NO2 should not be detectable, nor should ammonia. Adding any additional bioload without an additional ability to handle it will just result in more death.

Your livestock list is large IMO for a 125 and with serious predators (sloppy eaters) you need to have an amazing bio filter.

I would look to reduce your bioload by setting up another tank or selling off some of your livestock.

really? i'm definitely not adding any more fish until the shark gets moved to my 300 gallon in a few months but I never thought that my tank was overstocked at all. My fish are all relatively small aside from the shark. The biggest fish other than the shark is the foxface which is about 4 inches or so. The tank actually looks pretty empty.

My filter is a CPR CS90 Overflow with a CPR CY194 Wet Dry/skimmer.
90 lbs of live rock and 140 lbs of sand

If that is the problem then why isnt everything dying or showing any signs of an issue?

 

[hrairguitar]

Update....off work and everything is still fine and alive

Making 30 gallons of water right now and going to let it heat/circulate for 6 hours and do the 20% change later tonight and also going to cut back on feeding smaller amounts once a day instead of twice a day. My shark doesn't make a mess when it eats and ill hold off on veggie clipping shrimp tails for the puffer...just hoping it doesn't go for all my snails and corals. Also set my skimmer to pull out more liquid..buddy at a LFS told me to do that

Thank you for all the replies on this. I really appreciate it and have a happy easter

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

really? i'm definitely not adding any more fish until the shark gets moved to my 300 gallon in a few months but I never thought that my tank was overstocked at all. My fish are all relatively small aside from the shark. The biggest fish other than the shark is the foxface which is about 4 inches or so. The tank actually looks pretty empty.

My filter is a CPR CS90 Overflow with a CPR CY194 Wet Dry/skimmer.
90 lbs of live rock and 140 lbs of sand

If that is the problem then why isnt everything dying or showing any signs of an issue?

Good idea not to add any more fish until you move the shark out. Your tank is probably too heavily stocked for a 4 month old tank, and that is why you are seeing trace amounts of ammonia and nitrite. The tank's biofilter may be able to handle a lot of fish when it is mature, but you are too early in the tank's life to have it so heavily loaded. Your new fish already are stressed from being shipped around and dumped into new tanks, and they you put them in your tank and they are stressed further by the ammonia and nitrites. You also may be having ammonia spikes and just not noticing them based on the timing of when you test.

 

[FrogfishFeeder]

just curious as to which of our fine LFSs is giving you the advice?
You can pm me if youd rather.

 

[hrairguitar]

So I changed 27 gallons of water last night. I also tested my other 46 gallon tank which is about 1 month older. The ammonia level in my 125 matched the 46 which was 0. I think I was reading the colors wrong for that and I was actually expecting a deep yellow color. The test tube was a bright neon green which I think was intended to be yellow on the color scale for a 0 reading. The nitrites in the 46 were non existant (clear water in the tube) and in my 125 they were a VERY faint pinkish clear color. The water change did seem to bring it down a bit but being able to compare to my other tank its obvious that there is some trace of it because there is slight coloring. I'm going to try to do a bigger water change tonight or tomorrow and then do a mixture of things (reducing feeding, adding bacteria stuff, skimmer setting).....A buddy of mine that works at the fish section at Petco told me that my tank is basically on the last stage of completing the cycling process and that the existing fish I've had are used to the water and tolerating the nitrite spike but that a recently purchased fish is used to super good LFS water and that its probably already stressed as it is. It seemed to make sense.

I'm still amazed about people saying my tank is overstocked. It seriously looks empty in there. The fish are all small except for the shark. I do water changes every 2 weeks and clean out the skimmer almost daily and I really focus on keeping it really clean. If I ever see shark feces then I'll pull it out (or the hermits quickly jump on it and if there is any excess food pieces floating around then my hermits are like ants and jump all over it and its quickly devoured. My skimmer works fine, plenty of flow in the tank.

2 things I recently thought of that might have caused something

About 2 weeks ago I took the bio bale out of the wet dry and replaced it with about 10 lbs of rubble rock. I asked the guy at the LFS I got it from if it needed to be cycled first and he said no thats not necessary so instead I threw it in a makeshift QT tank for 5 days with a HOB and heater and power head. I asked him specifically is he sure because I dont want my tank going through a mini cycle. I was told the rock would be better than the biobale and to remove the biobale....So the way it looks is a CPR CY194 wet dry with a Rio 2100 as the skimmer power head. On the return side I have 1 big heater and a small heater as a backup with the grounding probe too. I also put a super small Rio powerhead in there as well so that the debris doesnt settle on the return side and to keep the water flowing because the water was getting stale and causing my return pump to heat up the water in the tank. On the actual trickle filter part I have the Live rock on the egg crate, then I have some carbon and bio balls sitting on top of the rock AND a nitrate remover pad on the very top . I have been trying to battle nitrates and was told by my trusted LFS that would be a good idea.

Then about 1 week ago I bought 20 more pounds of the live sand. This was from my regular LFS and was told that I could just dump it in since its already cycled (said that on the bag of sand too, on the label it said "just add and can add fish immediately"). I questioned it and he said it'll be just fine and not to worry

Could any of those 2 things have potentially caused this? Or is it more likely that I'm just towards the end of the main cycling process? And why is my little puffer fish doing just fine? He's new and shows no signs of abnormal behavior. My thought is that maybe the other fish that died werent as hardy?

Thanks again and sorry for all the questions

 

[MrTuskfish]

Off topic; is the stock list at the bottom of your posts current? I'm not a shark person; but I can't imagine any shark with your small, bottom dwelling fish. I assume your clowns are all juvis. Mature clowns will not tolerate clowns of any other species in the same tan. Your maroon clown will almost certainly become a female and a big female MC is the most territorial fish I know of. When this MC sexually matures, she will probably kill all the other clowns in the tank (not an exaggeration). She will also torment other fish and make life miserable for new ones. Also, are you using a QT with new fish?