Yellow tang strange behavior

[Giovanni]

I have a yellow tang in QT along with some anthias and a pair of watanabei angels and a cleaner wrasse. I noticed the cleaner flashing a bunch two days ago. At the same time I noticed the Yellow tang breathing rapidly. I tend to overfeed new fish for obvious reasons. The next day I noticed the yellow tang flashing and twitching his fins, so I did some testing. Nitrates and nitrites were very high and obviously I have over fed and over stocked. Not a problem I keep 50g of water mixed up all the time just incase. I did an 80% water change last night and all seemed better.

Today all fish look fine, breathing normal and no flashing. I fed the fish about 1pm and less than 10 mins later the yellow is on his side on the bottom not moving, breathing rapid and shallow. I bumped him around a bit with an acrylic stick and he seemed almost stiff. His eyes looked like he wanted to get up but he could not. Now several hours later he seems to have completely recovered.

No other fish are effected.

What do you guys think?

 

[AS]

Keep checking the water chemistry
- The tang is new and stressed
- Bad conditions have a bigger effect on a stressed fish
- Rapid change in conditions can have a negative effect as well
- Feed a very min amount. He just needs a little food.

Gill parasite can also effect breathing
- fresh water r/o could help with that
- he maybe too stressed for bath as well

I like to refill quarantine with water from my display and top off new r/o into display. fish gets used to water that he's going into

Good luck

 

[Giovanni]

I have had the fish for over 5 weeks. He is in QT related to exposure to ich in another QT tank. He is 14 days post TT for the ich.

I do use water from my DT for the QT changes. Water is almost perfect. He is completely normal now.

I am more wondering if the high nitrites could have caused these behaviors.

 

[AS]

High Nitrates are more impactful on tangs than Nitrites. You didn't mention ammonia. Did you test ammonia before the 80% water change? If yes, what were they?
During the Biological Cycle:

Nitrites come 1st
Ammonia 2nd
Nitrates 3rd

Over feeding will spike Ammonia high quickly!

I'm guessing Ammonia, but I'm guessing. How high were the Nitrites and Nitrates?

 

[Giovanni]

High Nitrates are more impactful on tangs than Nitrites. You didn't mention ammonia. Did you test ammonia before the 80% water change? If yes, what were they?
During the Biological Cycle:

Nitrites come 1st
Ammonia 2nd
Nitrates 3rd

Over feeding will spike Ammonia high quickly!

I'm guessing Ammonia, but I'm guessing. How high were the Nitrites and Nitrates?

There was a small ammonia spike that came two days before that I used a partial water change and chemicals to take care of. The fish never showed any ill effects from this.

Sorry you are mistaken with the nitrogen cycle.

The Nitrogen Cycle
Also known as the nitrification cycle, it is the process that breaks down toxic nitrogen waste products in your aquarium into less harmful components. It works like this:

First, a source of ammonia has to be present in the aquarium. Examples include decomposing organic waste, such as fish waste, decaying plants, and uneaten fish food. Respiration and other biological processes also produce ammonia.

Oxygen-loving bacteria called Nitrosomonas convert the ammonia to nitrite. Nitrite is toxic to fish, but less so than ammonia.

The Nitrobacter species of bacteria then convert the nitrite to nitrate. This byproduct of the nitrogen cycle is generally considered harmless to aquarium fish at low levels. Algae and plants then utilize the nitrate to naturally lower nitrate levels.

Once the initial "cycling" process is complete, the beneficial bacteria have reached a population large enough to efficiently process existing levels of nitrogen waste products.

 

[AS]

Yes, you are correct. I typed the 1st two in the wrong order. I am very familiar with the who process.

My point was you over feed. Which caused ammonia to spike and start the cycle. Tangs, like most other fish can not handle a cycle. You need to feed small amounts in an un-cycled quarantine and change water on a regular basis. If you got nitrates, you were well into a cycle. You can't let a quarantine tank get there.

Again, Good Luck

 

[Spar]

the only times i over feed is when i know i will be following that up with a large WC (either via TTM 100% changes or a random 50%+ one). with Tang's you can just put a clip of Nori in to keep them happy. The Angel and Wrasse will likely pick at it also.

on other feedings, i will put just a little in and watch them eat, then put a little more in, as to not over feed.

i am guessing ammonia is the issue also, especially given the sudden recovery after a WC. anything else, like Ich or other disease, would continue to bug them.

 

[Giovanni]

It was not ammonia. I have a new badge for that and treated an ammonia spike of 0.05 just a couple days before that. The overfeeding is really for the watanabeis as they were not eating or competing for food well. They have not started on the nori yet and the anthias eat the mysis, etc...

 

[wm jim]

Tangs are also grazers that need to eat a little but several times a day alternating with some mysis.

 

[SPotter]

how big is your qt tank and exactly how many fish do you have in there?

 

[Giovanni]

40 breeder. 3 large/ medium 11 small. Filtration is a HOB Aquaclear 110. I keep a sponge and spare bio media in the sump of my DT and use water from my DT when I need to setup QT.

 

[AS]

Seems a little crowded, are they all recovering from ich? I understand if they are all sick and you are actively treating them all in quarantine. You will need to do a partial water change daily (maybe 2x/ day)

How big is your display tank?What / how many fish in your display tank now? You may need to put them back in small groups, so you don't spike in DT.

Gen rule for a well established fish only marine tank is 1" of fish for each gallon of water. This also assumes, minimal feeding, regular water changes, good filtration, etc..


You have a pretty crowed tank. Can you borrow another tank and split them up?

Good luck

 

[Giovanni]

Seems a little crowded, are they all recovering from ich? I understand if they are all sick and you are actively treating them all in quarantine. You will need to do a partial water change daily (maybe 2x/ day)

How big is your display tank?What / how many fish in your display tank now? You may need to put them back in small groups, so you don't spike in DT.

Gen rule for a well established fish only marine tank is 1" of fish for each gallon of water. This also assumes, minimal feeding, regular water changes, good filtration, etc..


You have a pretty crowed tank. Can you borrow another tank and split them up?

Good luck

Less than 40 inches of fish in there.

So you think 2x/day changes and or start another unestablished QT is the answer. LOL

Folks, I did not ask how to QT, I asked about the strange behavior of the Yellow tang and what might have caused it. :deadhorse:

 

[AS]

Sorry for trying to help you out!
I miss typed 1" of fish for each 2 gal of water 20" of fish in a well established Tank. I guess if you don't want unsolicited advice, I been wishing the wrong guy luck. I should wish your fish luck.

 

[Giovanni]

Sorry for trying to help you out!
I miss typed 1" of fish for each 2 gal of water 20" of fish in a well established Tank. I guess if you don't want unsolicited advice, I been wishing the wrong guy luck. I should wish your fish luck.

What specifically do you think caused the Yellow tang to behave in such a manner?

 

[SPotter]

14 fish in a 40 breeder???? That's not a little small that's way too small. That's what's causing your yellow tang to act weird. How many anthias???? Anthias need a lot of room and are active. Your oxygen levels are probably low. Also did your dt have ich? If you're doing water changes with water from the dt all you're doing is re introducing ich to the qt. I would think about getting another 40b and splitting the fish up.

 

[Giovanni]

:deadhorse:

 

[AS]

My hypothesis would be:
Compounded effect of Ammonia, PH, Nitrites, etc..
Specifically Ammonia being the highest contributing factor.

Ammonia Impact:
- Gill Function is impacted
Which does several things:
- Reduces the fishes ability to exchange gas
- Impacts the PH of the fishes blood
- Oxygen delivery is impacted

Lack of Oxygen causes:
- damage to Nervous system

Which causes twitching, convulsions, etc

The point I was trying to make about your quarantine tank is that water chemistry changes much faster their than in an established tank. Therefore, it should have far less inches of fish per volume of water then your DT tank. In a reef tank, ammonia, nitrite, etc get utilized by the good bacteria on the glass, the substrate, the rocks as well as plankton, plants and animals

 

[Giovanni]

My hypothesis would be:
Compounded effect of Ammonia, PH, Nitrites, etc..
Specifically Ammonia being the highest contributing factor.

Ammonia Impact:
- Gill Function is impacted
Which does several things:
- Reduces the fishes ability to exchange gas
- Impacts the PH of the fishes blood
- Oxygen delivery is impacted

Lack of Oxygen causes:
- damage to Nervous system

Which causes twitching, convulsions, etc

The point I was trying to make about your quarantine tank is that water chemistry changes much faster their than in an established tank. Therefore, it should have far less inches of fish per volume of water then your DT tank. In a reef tank, ammonia, nitrite, etc get utilized by the good bacteria on the glass, the substrate, the rocks as well as plankton, plants and animals

Now that is a well formulated answer. Thanks

I am continuing to test the water daily. The tang is acting perfectly normal now. Regular respirations, eating fine, normal swimming.

 

[Flippers4pups]

No bashing here. I would agree that I would want to QT them (14) in at least two 40 gallon tanks and split them up. I would also have plenty of hiding places, ie.. cut pieces of pvc pipe etc.... Stress of all those fish in a small area.... Yep, that's doing it. Water quality is suffering.