Yet another ICH post...my turn

[Pogue]

Hi all,

I've read a bunch of Snorvich extremely informative posts regarding ICH.
I've also been flowing some of the other ICH post.

There is so much information on this site, it's making my head spin.

I was going to try Hypo, but have decided on TTM.
My fish stock:
2 clowns (2.5" each)
3 chromis (1" each)
2 neon gobies (2" each)
1 6line wrasse (2")
1 royal gramma (2")
1bicolor blenny (2")

I don't have the room/cash for additional tanks (other them a 20g I'm setting up sa a QT) so here's what I was planning to use for TTM:
I was either going to use:
2 x 5gallon buckets
or
2 x 15gallon rubbermaid bins

Onto the questions:
TTM
1 - Have ppl done TTM at the same time treating with PraziPro (I'm thinking about it, as a just in case measure)?
2 - Would my fish be OK in the 5gallon buckets (likely only have 3 gallons of water in it)?
3 - Should I go with the 15gallon bins (likely would have 10gallons of water in it)?

QT
1 - After the TTM the fish will go into the 20g QT, for how many weeks of observation?
2 - Being a new QT, how do I set it up?
3 - Can I use Live rock from my display? I wouldn't think so, because I could be introducing the crypto to the QT. Unless I let it fallow in the QT, but how long does that take?
4 - If I set it up with new saltwater, how can I get it ready to receive the fish in time for when the TTM is finished?

DT
1 - Same question for the DT, how long does it need to fallow? The life cycle (with no fish in the tank), could be 3-5 weeks (allowing for the existence of each of the 4 stages to be present now).

I appreciate all your comments.
thanks,
Pete

 

[Electus unus]

Some people say let it sit fallow 4 weeks, some 6 some 8, hell, I've heard 12. I think 6-8 is a good margin. That's what I'm doing with my liverock/inverts now as I'm currently treating with cupramine for ich..

 

[jduck]

Can live up to 72 days. After 10 weeks why not wait 2 more weeks just to make sure? Easier than doing it all over again?

 

[snorvich]

For multiple fish, I would go with the 15 gallon bins. Prazi is fine during TT but should not be done continuously. Use it for one transfer cycle, then leave a transfer cycle (or two) without it before doing another prazi treatment. After you read and reread, it is not all that complex. Just a lot to assimilate in the beginning.

 

[Pogue]

What advise can you give in regards to setting up a QT to be ready in time for the finish of TTM? I obviously can't use any of the rock or bio stuff from my DT as it needs to fallow for 72 days. Should I kickstart it with some kind of bio additive? I'm sure there is some post here regarding it.

Would anyone recommend treating with anything in addition to Prazi for alternate weeks of TTM?

I thank you all for sharing your knowledge.
Pete

 

[MrTuskfish]

There are finally a couple of bacteria in a bottle that will actually work: Bio-Spira or Dr. Tim's. An Aqua-Clear HOB filter is ideal for culturing this kick-start bacteria and providing flow in the QT. Use pvc fittings for shelter. No rock or substrate.Test often for ammonia, other tests aren't necessary. The TT will take care of ich and PP is a great wormer. Then, carefully observe for a couple of weeks.

 

[Pogue]

Excellent thank you for that info.

Could someone comment on why I read posts that fish start looking healthier and with less spots when treating with coprumine. I read that copper is only affects the Tribbles :lmao: (sorry couldn't remember what they're called at that stage) when they hatch from the cyst. That is a mere 24 hour period. What an incredibly small window of effectiveness for that treatment.

Thanks
Pete

 

[triggreef]

That is true in your above post (except tribbles lol). The reason people say they see less spots, is because the fish have moved into a new environment for their treatment. Meaning their are no new parasites hatching. The only parasites in the new system would be whats already on the fish, and whats falling off the fish. The parasite only stays on the fish for 7 days, and the spots you see are not the parasite, but is the fishes reaction to the parasite, mucus.

So, medication or not, chances are that the fish would be parasite free in 7 days. However if copper is NOT in the water, there is a chance that a single parasite could drop off the fish the first day in the new system, become a cyst, and hatch out 48 hrs later, re infecting the fish in only 3 days.

This is why the TTM suggests to transfer the fish to a completely new system ever 72 hrs.

 

[triggreef]

BTW, I've never seen spots on a fish during TTM on the 2nd transfer or after. But I haven't done it very many times. It is a lot of work if you are cramped for time like I am.

 

[Pogue]

The ich information says that the parasite falls off the host in the morning and that is when you should move the fish. In my case I have the lights start to cone on at 4pm and off at 12am. So should I plan to move the fish around 5pm?
Also should I maintain this light schedule in the TT tanks?
I wasn't planning to have lighting on, just ambiant.

Thanks
Pete

 

[MrTuskfish]

That is true in your above post (except tribbles lol). The reason people say they see less spots, is because the fish have moved into a new environment for their treatment. Meaning their are no new parasites hatching. The only parasites in the new system would be whats already on the fish, and whats falling off the fish. The parasite only stays on the fish for 7 days, and the spots you see are not the parasite, but is the fishes reaction to the parasite, mucus.

So, medication or not, chances are that the fish would be parasite free in 7 days. However if copper is NOT in the water, there is a chance that a single parasite could drop off the fish the first day in the new system, become a cyst, and hatch out 48 hrs later, re infecting the fish in only 3 days.

This is why the TTM suggests to transfer the fish to a completely new system ever 72 hrs.

Well put. I would have taken twice as much space to say about the same thing. The last few posts are reminders that all of us need to know the ich life cycle (read Snorvich's stickies). Treatment options and methods make no sense without this info.

 

[Pogue]

This is day 2 of TTM.

I managed to get all the fish out of my DT and transferred them into my first TTM holding tank.

Then disaster struck!

I got home from work yesterday only to find that the Hydor Theo thermostat failed on.
So I was slowly poaching my fish (I disliked those heaters before, now I hate them).
I lost the Royal Gramma. The other fish where struggling, but managed to survive.
All heaters have been replaced with Eheim Jagers now.

Hope things go better from here on out.

 

[Pogue]

Day 72!!!!!

Day 72!!!!!

Hi all,

Well I experienced some problems with TTM, Heater malfunction that poach some fish.

I've monitored my fish in QT and they look good if not bored (not much in the QT but some pvc fittings)

So today is day 72 of fallowing my DT:bounce3:. I think I'll move the fish back home tomorrow.

I want to get some new fish...
Do people keep their QT up and running all the time, any advice on that?

Thanks,
Pogue

 

[Spar]

However if copper is NOT in the water, there is a chance that a single parasite could drop off the fish the first day in the new system, become a cyst, and hatch out 48 hrs later, re infecting the fish in only 3 days.

This is why the TTM suggests to transfer the fish to a completely new system ever 72 hrs.

curious about the 48 hours part. in the research studies it has always stated that tomites/cysts last a minimum of 72 hours...

 

[Amoo]

Hi all,

Well I experienced some problems with TTM, Heater malfunction that poach some fish.

I've monitored my fish in QT and they look good if not bored (not much in the QT but some pvc fittings)

So today is day 72 of fallowing my DT:bounce3:. I think I'll move the fish back home tomorrow.

I want to get some new fish...
Do people keep their QT up and running all the time, any advice on that?

Thanks,
Pogue

I have a rack for 4 10g QTs and a 5th in a closet if needed in an emergency. Most I will keep up is 2, which are my fish only tanks, my invert only tanks get broken down once tx is complete. Either is acceptable and it's honestly probably easier if you just break it all down and stick a bio-wheel in your sump until the next time you need it.