You have $14000 to spend on a tank...

[BlennyBabe]

What would you buy?


Im helping Point Defiance Aquarium plan their living reef exhibit. The tank is a little odd shaped. Its a custom that is alreadt built and ready for us.
The front glass is concave and the back walls reach out to either side. (Im working on getting pictures of the layout) Its 500 gallons, acrylic, and about 4 feet deep.

I need to know what size sump you would put on it.

What pump(s) would you get for a closed loop and what about other water movement? Tunze streams? Something else?

What sort of lighting would you get? Any combo of metal halide, VHO, CF and t5s would work. But what spectrum, what brand bulbs would you choose to maximize PAR and get great asthetics. What reflectors and ballasts?

Im looking for ball bark type estimates.

Also, what fish, corals, and other inverts would be well suited to live there? I would rather not spend too much on livestock , but if there are a couple of fish suggestions, I would like to see them. I can also get corals from other zoos, but if you have suggestions, i'm open to hear them.

Basically, I want this tank to appeal to people like you who are involved in the hobby. I dont want this to be something that only non-reefers are into. Not your average exhibit.


If you have any good advice regarding suppliers, that would help to. I can buy wholesale, but because of corporate red tape, It will take a while to sort out the P.Os and what not.
Ill read your suggestions, then Ill share with you what Im thinking. If you are lucky, Ill even post a good photo journal of the progress...

 

[Fiziksgeek]

To be honest...I would recommend contacting some like Spazz to help with the system design....recall his work with the St. Jude system!!

 

[jejton]

Especially being that its for an educational setting, I would try to keep it as true a biotype as you can but at the same time try to stock heavy on the softies and LPS as people really like to see the movement. As for the technical stuff, I cant help.

 

[EriksReptiles]

PM sent!

Thanks Erik

 

[H20ENG]

I used to work with an aquarist named Karen who went on to Point Defiance.

I would have to see the space available to make true recommendations, but a sump of at least 250 gallons would be great. I would stay with metal halide lamps and Lumenarc type pendants. You'll need 400 watters for a 4' deep tank. Then some T5 actinics for flourescence.

With that large a tank, you'll need plenty of pumping power. Go with the larger Sequence pumps, and always have a backup with unions already attached ready to swap out. I recommend and use Oceans Motions 4 way valves and nozzles with a closed loop pump. But many people use Tunze Streams or other propeller pumps- you just have to hide them and their cords.

I'm assuming you have a control system for the facility already that you can tie into? If not, definitely get a controller for the tank.

Like the temperate aquarium where I used to work, this will probably be your only tropical tank? Dont forget the holding, coral frag, and quarantine systems which will need life support as well.

You can go crazy with bells and whistles, but it seems with your budget the money would be well spent on solid plumbing and flow system, good lighting, fractionator, and Ca reactor. Use good heaters (plural- always have a backup and on a failsafe controller). A refugium tank is easily added on, as well as a surge system.

I've done quite a few large public exhibit systems. Ask away if you need anything else.
Chris

 

[BlennyBabe]

Thanks everyone! Any other imput?

I like the idea of lumenarcs. The initial proposal was to have 1000 watt halides, is that overkill?

Holding is already in place (850 gallon tank with a large skimmer, calcium reactor, kalk drip, extreme lighting and moderate flow)
Quarantine will be added after the corals in the holding tank are moved onto exhibit. (we will be using pieces from the holding system)

What kind of RODI unit would you recommend?
What is a good skimmer. Im familiar with downdrafts, but all of ours have been custom in the past so I dont know any of the brand names.
\

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Not to sound like a skipping record, I recommend contacting Spazz At the very least, he can build you one of his famous Volcano Skimmers..

 

[wizsmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13045715#post13045715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fiziksgeek
Not to sound like a skipping record, I recommend contacting Spazz At the very least, he can build you one of his famous Volcano Skimmers..

Can someone *PLEASE* turn off the skipping record player!

 

[H20ENG]

Thanks Wiz
Nothing against Scott (Spazz). He is a great fabricator. His skimmers are definitely nice, but I believe out of the budget for this system.

Plenty of us here have experience with large systems , which is why the OP posted in "Large Reef Tanks".

1000W lamps would be great for that system, and you would need less fixtures.

There are plenty of RO/DI units out there that all do the same thing. Which one you choose would depend a lot on how much production you need. If you need much more than 150gpd, then look at larger pumped production units.

I use www.airwaterice.com FWIW. They can help you size your system too. Dont forget DI storage tanks, mixing tanks, DI makeup and topoff automation, etc.

Skimmers: From experience, dont spend the $ on RK2 or Emporer Aquatics commercial skimmers with venturis. The needlewheel pumps out now pull way more air and use a lot less power. The ATB cone skimmers seem real nice, but like Spazz's Volcanos, are way up in cost.

You can run a couple Reeflo Orca 250s with the better needlewheels and extended necks and still be on budget.

Better yet, DIY some large skimmers with a couple Dart needlewheel pumps driven with an air blower.

SO many skimmer options out there now...

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I guess I don't understand. The Reflo Orca 250's are $1250 ea....I've seen multiple Volcano owners state that they are in the $2500-$3500 range, seems only slightly more expensive.

Also, if BlennyBabe had the skills to DIY a large skimmer, I have a feeling the questions being asked would be more advanced. Just an impression, no offense meant.

Oh well, good luck, hope the systems turns out to be a true show piece for the aquarium.

Record player off...

 

[dvmsn]

$14,000.00 for everything including stocking?

 

[FishTruck]

14 grand will go fast!

Big bang for buck item suggestions for a monster tank like yours:

1. ONE Reeflo Orca skimmer with upgraded cup. Mike from Reef Specialty would be the guy to talk to about whether this can meet your needs. If he thinks you would need two of them... consider a bigger skimmer.... like the Volcano etc...

2. Coralvue 400 watt dimmable ballasts, reflux 12k bulbs, and lumenbrights. This will eliminate the need for supplemental t5s, VHOs or other bulbs. The dimmable ballasts makes coral acclimation easier. Again.. talk to Mike. This strategy will cut down on wiring, bulb stocking / swapping / troubleshooting will be simple.

By four feet deep, do you mean four feet tall? Or, four feet form front to back?

 

[ricks]

14,000 for a 500 gallon system fully stocked, only works out to 28.00 per gallon.

You will need to re-work your budget or the size of the system. Unless you can get donations for equipment and livestock. A budget of that size will rule out a successful SPS system. You are probably looking somewhere around 50.00 per gallon. And depending what type of lighting, flow, chiller you choose. Your monthly operating costs will hover around 1.00 per gallon...

Sounds like a fun project...

Happy Reefing

 

[dvmsn]

I think you can do it easily. I think exact dimensions of the thank would be helpful for recommending lighting and equipment. While you can certainly run a nice tank with tons of top of the line equipment, I don't think it is necessary.

IMHO, the only requirements to run a successful tank are:

1. A good lighting system: I also agree that 400 watt with lumenarc reflectors is a good choice. I think xm 10k or Ushio 10k bulbs are nice choices with a nice compromise between color and par. I personally like supplemental actinics. T-5's seem like a good choice.

$1,500.00

2. A nice skimmer: People go insane with buying fancy skimmers IMHO. An ASM g-5 should be fine and is a good compromise between price and performance. Spend the money on the gate valve mod. A used one is even better.

$550.00

3. Water movement: I am assuming because this is a public aquarium, seios and maxi jet mods are out. I would say a closed loop and Sea swirls for your returns should be adequate. The sequence pumps are highly regarded, inexpensive and energy efficient. Maybe a Dart or Snapper for return and a Hammerhead or barracuda for the closed loop.

$ 1,500.00

4. Deep Sand Bed Filtration: Yeah, yeah, yeah. IMHO, deep sand beds are indespensible for their denitrifying ability. You want softies and zoos, so a ultra low nutrient environment will generally not benefit color for these types of corals. The general public really likes the fish. I sand bed will allow you to stock more heavily and not to have to worry as much (within reason) about nitrate problems.

$ 450.00

5. Calcium/Alkalinity: I would vote for a two chamber calcium reactor and also supplemental kalk added by hand via drip. Two part adds up to much on a big system and with the questions about dowflake, homemade two-part has lost its clear cost advantage.

$ 500.00

6. Live Rock: You can save a lot hear. I think and open aquascape looks better anyway so when it come to live rock less is more. I would not use 100% live rock either. The marco rock gets very good reviews and is much less expensive. You won’t be able to tell it is not live rock in six months. I would say maybe 1-1 dead to live.

Total Excluding live rock and live stock: $4,500 + 15%(overage)=$5,175. This price assumes retail, which I am sure you won’t have to pay.

That leaves almost $ 10,000.00 for rock and livestock which should be do-able.

 

[aj0716]

I think dvmsn definately has the right idea... personnally, I'd want to see an open system, with a small mound of live-rock in the center, covered with a variety of corals (maybe some large sps towards the surface, and some soft coral, and lps closer to the bottom.) You could stock everything from small gobies (that would stick close to the rock structure), to a school of tangs, that would prefer the open water column (everyone loves tangs!) Between the variety of colorful reef fishes, and the coral, you'd have a living reef that would definately be an eye-catcher.

 

[ricks]

Maybe I just like to spend money...

I'm always looking for pictures of a colorful SPS system operated for years on a budget...


Happy Reefing

 

[dvmsn]

....

 

[pwhitby]

I have a 600g reef with 300g sumps. The reeflo 250 works fine.

4 feet deep is a long way for t5 to penetrate, but if you have enough, you should be fine. I run t5s over my tank, but its 30 inches deep only.

I would recommend a good controller with an autodial capability in case of power outage. I would also recommend a single tunze on a UPS in case of said outages.

Paul.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Definitily coralvue ballasts/reflectors and Orca skimmer.
Dave

 

[epiphanus]

Any possibilty of setting up a temperate reef?
You have some of the most beautiful animals in the world just outside your doorstep... Personally, if you are talking about a tropical reef of anything near that size, I can't see how one could construct anything worthy of public exhibit on that budget, as large as it may seem before adding in the "forgotten factors" (i.e. a chiller (sounds like overkill, but even a tropical tank will require them with intense halide lighting), perhaps a back-up chiller (not overkill when one considers the investment in temperature-sensitive stony corals alone), back-up bulbs (if not fixtures), additives, meds, shipping, mortality allowance, quality fish and invert foods and supplements, and so on. I haven't visited your facility, so I don't know if there are already tons of tanks like that-- but, in public aquaria, that's a tiny tank nonetheless, and could be suitable for a species tank, a biotope, a very specific biological or aesthetic theme, etc. If you do decide to go tropical, one way to help avoid skimping on decent equipment in lieu of pretty fish and clams would be to have LFS's in the area promote a frag drive to get you started. Anyway, best of luck...