Zenya and clam freaks

[zenya]

Aside from silly jokes, where one should really draw a line? I agree 100% with Greg that Gigas are quite different from any other clam for its shear size and should not be taken for granted.

I think in a 500g and over tanks it could possibly be comfortable for 12-15 years but beyond that...? When they reach two or three feet long how do you move it or even attempt to lift it? How much do you think it would weigh?

I agree with Greg that public aquariums is where they belong, at best. You might say that he's the one to talk, it's his clam that died but, I was trying to correct my mistake and it cost this clam his life. Something you should consider before you go out and get one, clam chowder aside

 

[wakesetter]

OK I am not here to argue with people. My initial question once again was simply where it came from. However I do feel the need to defend myself

Gregt-- The fact that the industry isn't selling them frequently has nothing to do with right and wrong. They aren't even being offered to the wholesalers very often. If they could get them, they would. Just look at all of the other rediculious stuff they offer. The list is frustratingly long and rediculous. Just the other day I emailed one of the wholesalers and asked them out of curiosity why they order that stuff. We all know why and it comes down to the stores willingness to sell it to make a buck. My LFS sells goniopora as great hardy starters. I hate that. The answers I have gotten as to why gigas aren't available is that most of the farmed gigas are going to the asian food market. I would rather put it in my tank for a while then worry about where to put it than see it in a Japanese soup bowl.

nite99-- If you go back and read your previous reply I think you will agree you sound condescending and rude and that you think I don't know jack. I am glad you researched for three years before setting up your tank. I have done my research as well. I have a degree in Ecology and Systematic Biology with a concentration in marine sciences and animal behavior. That took a lot of research. I am also constantly trying to learn more about the hobby and the science. As well, I work with a non profit educatial based organazation in my area that provides education of marine science to the community. One of our main goals is getting a public aquarium in our area. I did bother to check to see why gigas aren't offered as they were once. Did you? It doesn't sound like it. Next time you should ask if someone researched rather than asssume they didn't. You know what they say about when you assume don't you?

I don't want to put these clams in 20 or 50 or even 200 gallon tanks. I want two of these clams for big tanks (400 gallons) with tons of light and very nice filtration.

Finally just so that you all know. It is incorrect to refer to them as Gigas unless you are starting a sentence with the word. They are gigas because it is their species name. Gigas would imply the genus which is wrong.

Again I am not trying to attack or insult anyone here. Although I did feel attacked and insulted with the replies to my simple question.

 

[zenya]

Originally posted by wakesetter

Finally just so that you all know. It is incorrect to refer to them as Gigas unless you are starting a sentence with the word. They are gigas because it is their species name. Gigas would imply the genus which is wrong.

Yes, you are correct there. Tridacna gigas would be the prefered way but most people use gigas for short.

Originally posted by wakesetter

Just the other day I emailed one of the wholesalers and asked them out of curiosity why they order that stuff. We all know why and it comes down to the stores willingness to sell it to make a buck. My LFS sells goniopora as great hardy starters. I hate that. The answers I have gotten as to why gigas aren't available is that most of the farmed gigas are going to the asian food market. I would rather put it in my tank for a while then worry about where to put it than see it in a Japanese soup bowl.

You are partially right about that. Farms that raise T.gigas had recieved some grants for restocking reefs with this species and so, large quantities had been utilized for those purposes. Yes, some of it still gets to the food markets in Asia but not as much as it used to. I too have some connections to the wholesalers and distributors and this is the answer I had recieved.

I personally have no hard feelings towards anyone that posted on this thread, I just felt that your joke was a bit inappropriate given the circumstances. I have no comments abouts your knowledge or amount of research that you have done concerning keeping clams and I do believe you,FWIW.

 

[namscam]

wakesetter: ok maybe the dont grow to 75 inches but they grow up to 54" long. some sources that i have read says that 4 feet is maxm but no matter what their max length in growth is it still larger than that 4x4x3 tank that you have so if you want to keep it in that tank for its lifetime, think again.. also if you are saying how many reefers start with a 400 gallon tank when just starting out, well shoot i have a 400gallon tank when i started out so there you go, but have downgraded since i moved because my new house couldnt support all that weight because it was afterall an all glass tank and i didnt want to build support beams.
ok by saying that i m self rightous<== let me ask you how?? i m only stating from what i have read and yes I have seen sources that says that they can grow to that size. the numbers that you from those websites are average size anywayz. there are tons of clams in the ocean, how are they gonna measure all the clams in the ocean to know what they have the potential to grow too. Just to let you know, Biologist have not done much research on many inverterbrates(not as much as vertebrates) so how can you say for sure that what you read bout their max size is true. it could be that this size of like 50" or so is the larges anyone has seen but wut if due to some factors the clam just died and could not grow to be that size. factors such as pollution or whatnot. perhaps in the past there could have been clams larger but just died. I mean look that that fish that we have just discovered off the coast of africa. It was believed to be extinct but looky looky..its still alive. what i m saying is that scientist do not know a whole lot bout ocean life. what we know bout the ocean and its creaturesm we re bearly scratching the surface. so think again when you make a comment. And so what if you have 15 years of experience, you can still make mistakes. I bet you know a whole lot more bout keeping them in your tank than I do, but I can tell you for certain that you still have a lot to learn bout these animals and hobby. just cuz you ve been keeping a reef tank for 15 years, it dont mean you know everything bout these invertebrates and its history in evolution, embroyology, and what not.

 

[namscam]

so it is you who is sounding all rightous and mighty not us. we are just offering tips to find out what the problem could be. to find a solution you must first know the problem. so how does finding the problem sound negative

 

[gregt]

I'm probably being throughly unfair, but after the clam chowder comment, I'm having a hard time believing that you have much concern for the animals in your care. As I say, that may be unfair, but that comment coupled with the fact that you want an animal that you (nor anyone else) can't practically care for throughout it's normal lifespan pretty much sets the tone for the rest of the conversation. The fact of the matter is every animal we have in our care will die at some point. I personally strive to make that point as far in the future as I possibly can. If that makes me self-righteous, then so be it.

 

[firechild]

Firstly, Greg, sorry to hear of your loss, I would be devastated if I lost any of my clams.

Wakesetter,
Tridacna gigas do grow significantly bigger than a 4' tank. I have seen some of the broodstock at Orpheus Island on the GBR and the largest I saw was 1.7m (68"), the diagonal length of your 4'x4' tank.

 

[tony13]

I saw the clam in person and it was a beutiful and in great shape. Sorry for the loss Gene.
Tony

 

[wakesetter]

I am not starting off with a 400 gallon tank. I am currently installing 2 400 gallon tanks. I am done with this exchange. As I stated above, I was just asking where it came from. Nobody answered that, instead the answers were more about telling me I should not get one. Believe me or don't...I do have the animals health in mind first and foremost. Again sorry about the loss, that sucks. The clam chowder thing was a joke. I didn't even think about the context when I wrote it. I am not here to argue so I am done with this thread

 

[holeinone1972]

Wow, what a huge bummer. I am sorry for both of your losses.

Rob

 

[namscam]

Finally just so that you all know. It is incorrect to refer to them as Gigas unless you are starting a sentence with the word. They are gigas because it is their species name. Gigas would imply the genus which is wrong.

Now why do you have to be all technical and all that. We all know what everyone is talking bout when they say gigas even tho its incorrect. you sound just like this other reefer that i know from another site who goes around spell checking everyones post like he has all the free time in the world. but if you are gonna try to get all technical and stuff then you should know that when writing a species scientific name one should always underline it and when using it in a sentence you dont need to underline it but should put it in italic. tsk tsk once again someone trys to be all mighty and rightous because he thinks hes been in the hobby for 15 years and this is a professional marine biologist, but couldnt even get the fundamentals of being a biologist by naming it right.

also what does having 2 400 gallon tank has to do with being able to fit it in.. no matter how you think of it, its still gonna two separate tank. unless you want to fuse these two tanks into one and take out one side of the tank to make into a 800 gallon tank, but other than that i have no idea how you are gonna expect this clam to not out grow your tank.
and to answer your question of where to get T. Gigas ask barry (barry@clamsdirect.com) or ask kyle (kylekilhoffer@hotmail.com )

 

[wakesetter]

You are right about the italic or underlining but the T. gigas still shouldn't be T. Gigas. No capital. I said nothing about being a professional marine biologist and I am not. Having a degree in biology does not make you a biologist.

Thanks for the info about clamsdirect.com. I have tried him before and he either had none or they were way more than I was willing to pay.

 

[wakesetter]

If I sounded high and mighty I apologize. Several of us got carried away here which is really pretty lame and not what the site is about. We are here to help eachother not judge eachother. I just felt I was being judged harshly for simply asking where the clam came from. I am done slinging mud.

 

[Ninong]

And what will you do with them when they outgrow the tank?

Interesting question even if you are directing it at someone who is planning on keeping them in a 400-gal tank. Where do we draw the line? Different people have different opinions on where to draw the line. Whenever anyone asks Dr. Ron Shimek what he thinks the minimum size tank should be for a Tang his standard response is one that is a minimum of 50-feet long! Most of us would consider that extreme.

Speaking of extreme, how about the recommendation of a Tridacna gigas as the best clam choice for a 29-gal tank? That seems like irresponsible advice to me but I don't get paid to write hobby columns for popular magazines. The author of that advice just happens to be intimately familiar with the captive care of T. gigas having participated in the design of a new 5500-gal aquarium to house two large T. gigas specimens that had outgrown their 350-gal home. The larger of those two specimens was 25 years old at the time of the move in 2002 and it weighed 167-lbs. This is what the two large T. gigas clams looked like in their 350-gal tank: http://waquarium.otted.hawaii.edu/vt/galleries/tank7/clam.jpg and this is what they look like in their new 5500-gal tank: http://www.reefland.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=243 and http://www.reefland.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=244

Lest anything think I made this up, here is the advice in question, word for word:

Q- I love the beauty of giant clams. I really want to add a clam to my 29
gallon tank, which has two small clownfish, a clearner shrimp, a
large-polyped stony and many soft corals. Lighting consist of two 65-watt
power compacts. I have a Red Sea Prizm Skimmer and a Magnum 250 Hot filter.
I use some additives (calcium and coral food). Do I need to add anything
else to a clam tank? Are there any other things I need to know about keeping
clams?

A. "Several species of giant clams are available to aquarists. Your best
bet for success would be a true giant clam (Tridacna gigas). This species
does well in captivity and should initially do well in your setup. As it
grows, however, it will need more light. You are just on the border for
light intensity at 4 1/2 watts per gallon, but keeping this species should
be within your system's capacity.

At the same time, you will need to move the clam to a larger tank as it
grows and grow it will, very rapidly, provided the water parameters are
adequate."

 

[Barry N.]

Ninong

I saw that as well. I couldn't believe it.

Gene, sorry for your loss.

 

[Ninong]

Ninong

I saw that as well. I couldn't believe it.

Gene, sorry for your loss.

Barry,

I guess that little disclaimer at the end makes it impossible for anyone to find fault with his advice: "At the same time, you will need to move the clam to a larger tank as it grows and grow it will, very rapidly, provided the water parameters are adequate."

Contrast that advice, that a T. gigas is the best choice for a 29-gal tank, with what he has to say in his 1994 book:

"The two largest species, T. derasa and T. gigas, can grow over 10 cm (4 in.) per year. On average, T. gigas can reach a length of over 60 cm (2 ft.) within 10 years."

 

[zenya]

Very unusual advice, considering the source

Originally posted by Barry N.

Gene, sorry for your loss.

Greg and I both had suffered a loss,Barry. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Ninong]

Very unusual advice, considering the source

It's weird advice. I don't know if it's unusual or not, considering the source.

 

[Barry N.]

Ninong,

This is a quote from another author, just this morning.

The Waikiki aquarium has a trio of gigas in a five hundred gallon system... that is too small for them.

 

[Ninong]

Barry,

It's certainly not large enough for three T. gigas if they intend keeping them as long as they have kept their two largest specimens but they could always build another 5500-gal system, I guess.

I wonder which 500-gal system he's talking about? There are three gigas in the 5500-gal system, two very large specimens and one much smaller one and there are possibly a few other specimens in some of the other tanks but I don't remember seeing three gigas clams in any one tank other than the 5500-gal reef exhibit. They have some large derasa clams here and there, too.