Zeo vs Bio pellet reactor

bertoni I'm not sure this is the case at all. Why would people continue to buy these medias if it was just like live rock. The manufacturers are dead wrong in starting the media absorbed ammonium???(is what your stating) I'd like to hear more about this.

Korallen Zucht has never claimed that their media absorbs ammonia !

dont get me wrong, it does in freshwater, but in saltwater, other ions will take its place much faster.

it is used just like Live rock .... but it is not live rock ... after about 4-8 weeks, they tend to loose their effects in marine tanks, IME, they loose their abolity to remove po4 ... and I wont post how this is done imo, Im sure KZ doesnt want me to, nor anyone wants to hear :)
 
Gamble please tell me the name of the books you've read this in and the author. Seriously not trying to call you our on anything just prefer to check my information in more the one source for myself. Surely you understand that you wouldn't take the word of any random person on the forum as factual.
I don't like to use something just because it work with out understanding it. What works in one system may not in another and what works now could cause serious issues down the road. I like to know what I am doing and not play with the lives of the animals in my tank.

with Zeovit, I can assure you that you will never figure out 100% how it works, as that is not published.

Zeovit is NOT for every one ... whether it works or not was a question for 2007 ...
 
Thanks for the input Allmost. At this time I am using NeoZeo perhaps for the very reason that KZ won't publish how it works. It may very well be the case they don't even know, but at this time I personally prefer using a different brand. I won't lie I have KZ products in my refrigerator and I may in time use a hybrid of both systems. At this point I want to give the NeoZeo method at least 2-3 months before I start trying to potentially tweak it with other items as I see fit.

From the NeoZeo directions: "NēoZeo is a blend of zeolites that selectively remove ammonium and certain other monovalent cations from seawater (leaving divalent cations such as calcium, magnesium, strontium, and various minor and trace elements alone), exchanging them primarily for potassium ions, however this is not the primary means of water quality improvement provided by this media; rather, the colonization of the media’s vast surface area with the appropriate types of nutrient-remineralizing microorganisms, such as those found in MicrōBacter7, serves to deplete existing concentrations of dissolved organic material from the aquarium. "

Allmost ~ what percentage of your Zeolit media do you replace as it begins to lose it's ability to work(as you say lose the ability absorb phosphates)? Also ~ how much do you use on what size system? Do you have a link to a description of what you personally do?

BTW, I just wanted to state that I brought this thread back from the dead just to state I disagreed that, "there is not much of a difference at all between the two systems".
 
I wonder about one thing in all this new discussion, the loss potassium when using zeolite. What is a good brand test kit for potassium?
 
If water changes maintain K in a system that is dropping in K then they would increase the level in tanks that do not use Zeolite media potentially to a dangerous level. Using water changes to replace something that is falling either means you are counting on an increase level of that element in the salt mix or that you realize you are not going to increase the level, but just reduce how quickly the levels are dropping. Make sense?

General over example:
If you using a salt that does not have elevated levels of K in it, but has it present in NSW ratio then I can see it reducing the need for dosing K, but not eliminating it. If for instance the level of K drops from 400ppm to 380 and you do a 50% water change with a salt mix containing 400ppm the result would be a concentration of 390ppm of K in the aquarium. After that period of time elapses again the concentration may drop from 390 to 370 and after a 50% water change you would be left with 385ppm K. In time your K will be lower and lower.
 
Liz I am not sure if your second sentence was meant to be a question. If so then it depends on how you define the word "need". If you use a Zeolite media your Potassium level will decrease in time. How much, no one has documents and likely varries from brand to brand and batch to batch.(some some natural but chemically modified but most are naturally occurring and could vary significantly. There is also a good chance the environment in your aquarium will effect how much is absorbed)

The question may come down to is it dangerous when these levels drop? Again there is no hard data that says it is. The pigmentation on many coral will decrease resulting in a color change. Who knows if this is healthy or unhealthy for the animal of if there are other reasons potassium needs to be at natural levels in the aquarium. My guess is that a decrease can't be healthy and I'd prefer to keep things as close to natural conditions as possible.
 
Thanks for the input Allmost. At this time I am using NeoZeo perhaps for the very reason that KZ won't publish how it works. It may very well be the case they don't even know, but at this time I personally prefer using a different brand. I won't lie I have KZ products in my refrigerator and I may in time use a hybrid of both systems. At this point I want to give the NeoZeo method at least 2-3 months before I start trying to potentially tweak it with other items as I see fit.

From the NeoZeo directions: "NēoZeo is a blend of zeolites that selectively remove ammonium and certain other monovalent cations from seawater (leaving divalent cations such as calcium, magnesium, strontium, and various minor and trace elements alone), exchanging them primarily for potassium ions, however this is not the primary means of water quality improvement provided by this media; rather, the colonization of the media's vast surface area with the appropriate types of nutrient-remineralizing microorganisms, such as those found in MicrōBacter7, serves to deplete existing concentrations of dissolved organic material from the aquarium. "

Allmost ~ what percentage of your Zeolit media do you replace as it begins to lose it's ability to work(as you say lose the ability absorb phosphates)? Also ~ how much do you use on what size system? Do you have a link to a description of what you personally do?

BTW, I just wanted to state that I brought this thread back from the dead just to state I disagreed that, "there is not much of a difference at all between the two systems".

I see what you mean.
I used 1l of stones per 100G as directed by KZ manual. not sure if I can post the link here but its on zeovit.com

I change 90% of the stones.

I do not think the stones Absorb po4, I do not think they absorb ANY thing in Salt water ... and chemists back that up ... how is po4 removed then ?

1. building of cellular membrance and DNA of bacteria used po4.
2. methabolic finctions of bacteria and use of po4 in making their outter sideophores

okay, all other systems do this alrady, why is PO4 processed SO FAST in zeovit ? so this is my explanation for myself ... I do nto think or know if this is how it works ...but the Zeoliths used, contain high amount of FE and AL ... in their composition. I think when shaken, FE (OH)2 and AL2O3 are released into water, bonding with po4, and removed by skimmer ....

Just my opinion /story of zeovit for me.
 
Liz I am not sure if your second sentence was meant to be a question. If so then it depends on how you define the word "need". If you use a Zeolite media your Potassium level will decrease in time. How much, no one has documents and likely varries from brand to brand and batch to batch.(some some natural but chemically modified but most are naturally occurring and could vary significantly. There is also a good chance the environment in your aquarium will effect how much is absorbed)

The question may come down to is it dangerous when these levels drop? Again there is no hard data that says it is. The pigmentation on many coral will decrease resulting in a color change. Who knows if this is healthy or unhealthy for the animal of if there are other reasons potassium needs to be at natural levels in the aquarium. My guess is that a decrease can't be healthy and I'd prefer to keep things as close to natural conditions as possible.

we know it is not the Zeoliths !

make saltwater, drop Zeoliths in it, and test for K+ after and before, u will see no change !

Drop in K+ will handicap the bacteria from taking up nutritions, as K+ is one of the most important ions for the bacteria ! same with MG++ . K+ does NOT make nor contains color pigments !! color pigments are nothing but proteins excited.
so one can say without K+ good coloring is impossible. cause th ebacteria can never be happy enough :)
 
What salt are you using? You might not need to add potassium?

Reef Crystals

My tank is doing fine, good growth & color. Blues are not as bright as other colors though, so I thought checking potassium would be worth doing (if the kits available could be trusted).
 
Reef Crystals

My tank is doing fine, good growth & color. Blues are not as bright as other colors though, so I thought checking potassium would be worth doing (if the kits available could be trusted).

If your parameters are in line try PotassiumIodide Fluoride for blues.
 
Didn't read through the entire post, but my thought is that Zeo and B/P would compete against each other. I don't see it working most efficiently if both are used. Food for thought.

My preference is B/P simply because of ease of use.
 
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