Zeovit, Aqua Forest, Triton... Confused

[Stickboy97]

So I've had salt water fish tanks since the early 90's, but I've never tried many corals and no SPS. I just transferred a 75g to a 105g and I want to try SPS.

I've read a ton here on RC and my local forums. As I read more about dosing, feeding, parameters etc I'm getting lost. There are so many great tanks using different methods. So if you use Zeo, AF or Triton can you tell me why you chose the one you did? If you use one of these any pointers as to which is easier?

(my tank, DSA 105g, 2 MP40, 3 Onyx LED, 40g sump, Aquamax EM300 skimmer, DC12000 pump & tropic Marin salt. I have 2 dosing pumps and 2 reactors, and no idea what I am going to use to feed , dose, put in the reactors etc. Purple tang, leopard wrasse, clown fish, 3 nems & 3 zoa colonies)

Any advice is welcome!!!

 

[Piper27]

There is no need to use any certain method really, unless you want a certain look or goal in sps coloration or maintenance. I would focus on the basics if your going to add sps since that's all that is needed in the first place. Adding other things to your tank can complicate the process and if your not aware of what's needed you can mess up a tank quickly with a few products.
Out of the three aquaforest is easiest since it tells you what's in the bottles and the additives are very mild compared to zeovit. Also it can be pretty basic even when using the zeolites which they say don't need to be shaken. I shake them anyways since I would say it improves how they work. Triton is different from the other two since it's about maintaining every element itself without waterchanges. It's not really a very low nutrient method but can be if you want it to.
All the methods are focused on the same stuff in a way, they all have different special products that claim to work differently than other ones in order to make the method different than the others.

 

[Stickboy97]

But don't they all work towards the same goal, nutrient / chemistry manipulation (balancing)?

Do you need any of these if you just plan to monitor the main 3 (Mag, Cal & Alk) and dose?

I'm just gathering info, to try to decide what to do. I want to keep SPS and want to be successful.

 

[Hentz]

They all, for the most part, work for the same goal.

As Piper27 mentioned, Aquaforest and ZEOvit especially work the same to create the ULNS. Triton allows you to kinda play with nutrients as Piper27 also mentioned. It's not really "meant" to be ULNS, but you can easily achieve those goals.

I run ZEOvit myself. After doing some extensive research on both Aquaforest and ZEOvit, I chose ZEOvit. Why? The community (at the time I made the change) was huge, and it still is. Aquaforest was stilling getting out there and was still getting around, from what I saw. Though the results with both looked amazing.

Aside from the bigger community, I've always wanted to try ZEOvit. So it was nothing ever against AF.

ZEOvit to me is incredibly easy, so I could only imagine the same for Aquaforest.
After purchasing the package BRS offers for ZEOvit, I was so excited. After I received it, I eagerly opened it and got started. After opening, I immediately kinda panicked and thought I bit off more than I could chew. I was only to quickly realize, it is DAMN easy!!

My routine looks like this:
Daily I shake the reactor morning and night.
I dose 0.1ml of ZEOstart morning and night as well.
I daily dose Flatworm Stop (helps strengthen corals) every night.
I also dose 1 drop of ZEObak and Sponge Power every other night (opposite schedules).
-- Note that all this takes literally about 30 seconds. Seems even quicker when you get into the routine.

I also change the stones every 8-10 weeks.
10% water change is also done every Saturday.

Such an easy method and my Acropora seem to absolutely love it.
Aside from people's remarks saying its so hard and all that jazz.. They are tripping. This is easily one of the most easiest methods I've ever done. Aside from my K.I.S.S method which was nice, but my knowledge was no where near what it is now for water stability and how to properly grow/color Acropora.

But don't they all work towards the same goal, nutrient / chemistry manipulation (balancing)?

Do you need any of these if you just plan to monitor the main 3 (Mag, Cal & Alk) and dose?

I'm just gathering info, to try to decide what to do. I want to keep SPS and want to be successful.

To answer your question, they all work for the same goal: Successfully maintain nutrients while promoting the best possible water and elements to create a healthy environment for corals.

Any method you ever go, you will forever need to monitor the main 3 and keep those as stable as possible. Some methods include everything like Triton. Others like ZEOvit, do not maintain the main 3. Instead thats separate from the method.

Either way, you will be successful if you keep the main 3 stable and have a healthy amount of nutrients being imported/exported.

 

[Piper27]

Yea starting with the basics is the way to go in the beginning. Stabilize the big three and let things grow while managing nutrients. Once all that is balanced and corals are healthy and growing is the best time to decide if you want to start a program to manipulate colors and nutrients. Since you can see exactly what your corals look like you can get a better picture on if you want to try and add to or change any color. Good luck! If you were experienced I would say just choose a method and run with it but there is a lot to learn while even running the basics.

 

[abhishek@1985]

Excellant advice from both Hentz and Piper.
I would just start with basic and stabilize Alk, Ca and Mg along with proper lighting ( high light if going all acros) and plenty of flow while keeping nutrients at check .

Once everything is dialed in and you gain experience keeping easier sps like some of the montiporas, seriatoporas and Sstylophoras and may be 1 or 2 easy acros like green slimmer and tricolor acropora like acropora valida .. you can start slowly converting the system to ULNS using either zeovit or aquaforest .

The zeovit or Aquaforest will definitely help you achieve your goal of ULNS while maintaining amazing acro coloration but needs some experience to start with .

I have always found this quote to be so true - SPS - Stability Promotes Success !!!

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Hentz]

You can easily transfer over into ZEOvit or AF kind of a method. However, please note that it is highly recommended to start with the method of your choice.

Not saying that you won't be unsuccessful by any means. I successfully made the transition into ZEOvit. Though with my reboot, I started fresh from ZEOvit and have actually had better success starting than I did with my original setup.

 

[Stickboy97]

Thanks for the info. I looked into AF this weekend and now I'll do some research on Zeovit. The tank is up and running and got everything moved from my 75. Everything seems happy right now.

Running Zeo or AF, ULNS... does that mean fewer fish? I have 3 now but would like to get more.... possibly up to around 10-13 depending on types. SPS prefer "dirty" water correct?

I'm going to focus on some easier SPS (like ya'll mentioned) and keeping the main 3 steady. Slowly adding fish and coral. Then I'll decide on Z, AF or maybe even Triton.

 

[jda]

Berlin is still the most used and most successful method. If your N is under 5 and P under .1, then you should be fine. "clear" on Salifert test kits is good enough to start. Just feed the fish and let the tank take care of the rest. Lots of the best tanks out there do not use anything in your title. I personally will argue that it is not Zeo or AF that makes the tanks as good as they are, rather a recently gained or renewed interest in the hobby and the details that it takes to make tanks exceptional.

I might suggest that you start with anything from ORA, staghorn acropora, montis, birdsnest, catspaw. These are pretty easy to keep and most can do well with them even as they grow. I would stay away from the harder acropora for now - you can tell that they are harder when they start to cost a lot more.

Once you can keep these well and you get really good at maintaining the big-three, then you will be ready to move on. My next guess will be better lights and a calcium reactor. Then, you might see the need to dive into Zeo, AF or whatever.

 

[Denadai]

Water Changes and / or rowa / phosban , CR or balling and good flow and ligth work very well.

All this methods is a plus but not necessary

Best Regards

 

[o2manyfish]

Triton is really pretty simple. Everyone understands dosing the 3 Basics. You test and adjust the big 3.

Triton is the exact sample Principal, but when you make the adjustments for the big three you are also dosing a balanced mix of 34+ other elements. With the testing you can dose the particular elements that your aquarium is consuming.

Sure you think you are taking care of the other elements because you are changing water, but when you change water you don't know exactly what trace elements are being added or in what concentration. Are you adding something that is or isn't being used in your tank? and how many elements is your tank consuming in greater quantities that your salt is adding in?

With Triton you dose 4 bottle that contain the big 3 plus all the others. 2 of the bottles can be combined so you can still use your 3 channel doser. You set the dosing of the 3 based mainly off your alkalinity.

Then have your water tested and get a 3 page report telling you what is in your water, what you have too much of, what you don't have enough of, and the instructions for how to correct these levels. The triton elements are all labeled as just that - Elements - You dose pure Zinc, Nickel, Vanadium... etc no mystery concoction - No Bottle A, Bottle B, And bottle M.

And once you get thru the first 4-6 weeks of figuring out your levels and getting everything balanced.... Then you just cruise along. You check you alk regularly (not necessarily religously) and every 4,6 12 months when you either have added a bunch of different corals, or your corals have grown significantly, then you do another Triton water tests, and adjust your dosing of specific trace elements. And boom... sit back, relax and enjoy your tank till its time to test again.

Everyone believes in the Ballin the Big 3, Triton is the same principle but you dose the other 30+ as well.

Dave B

 

[Stickboy97]

Thx, Triton actually sounds a little more fool proof but the idea of no water changes throws me off (old habits). Def going to keep looking into it though.

 

[o2manyfish]

The Triton Method does not say "Step 17B -Don't change any of your water"

The Triton Method is not a... This will fix your problem and unhappy aquarium.

Triton is not marketing their method saying - Triton will fix your algae outbreak. Triton Will Fix Your phosphate issues. Triton Will Fix your Brown corals.

The Triton ICP testing will help point you in the direction of what might be causing those aquarium problems.


Before starting with Triton you need to have a biologically well balanced aquarium. If your aquarium is a phosphate and nitrate machine - Then you have a reef system in which your filtration is not capable enough to handle your biological load.

Triton is simple -- Replacing Trace Elements. It just about providing the things your corals need to grow. But maintaining water quality is your system's responsibility. And if you read the Triton literature for the method Triton recommends you having a Refugium that is at least 30% of your total system volume. With refugium, live rock and a good skimmer properly sized for your bio-load. Then the biological part of your aquarium will be stable and healthy.

Once you have the biological part stabilized. So that excess nutrients and waste are being properly removed and neutralized by the aquarium. And then you are dosing Triton Elements to replace what your corals are consuming. Now let's look at the water changes.

Water changes started with the first keeping of fish (fresh or salt). You put a fish in a container. You feed it. It poops. You need to get rid of the poop. To do that you changed the water. This got rid of the buildup of bad things in the water.

Now we have live rock, good flow, refugiums, skimmers, fluidized sand filters. And when properly sized for your aquarium they are capable of removing all the waste produced by your bio mass.

And if we are putting all the Trace elements that are consumed (and with Triton ICP tests you known exactly how much ((to the parts per billion on some elements)) that your tank is using).

What are you accomplishing by doing water changes???

The reasons for doing water changes are now all being taken care of.

Triton doesn't say - Stop doing water changes. But once you get your tank balanced then there is no reason to do a water change. And successful Triton users just started doing less.

I have been using Triton testing and Triton dosing for a couple of years now.

I have great colors, great growth. My last Phosphate test 4 weeks ago I was at 1.6, For the past 18 months my phosphates were between .6 and .8. For most people this is a faint and collapse value for their aquarium. But I have no algae issues. I don't have any brown corals (and I have 100's of corals and at least 500+ frags.)

Theres no smoke or mirrors, again it's just simply keeping the things in mother nature the same in your aquarium.

Dave B

 

[Piper27]

Triton would be awesome to try out for me on my next tank. Do they have a place to test water in the states yet?

 

[Stickboy97]

Actually, the more you describe Triton the more I like it. Once I start to get more corals and start to see what my tank is consuming, I think I will try it. That will probably be months down the road, but till I like the idea!

 

[o2manyfish]

Piper, Currently all the testing is done in Germany. I have gotten my coral addict friends from all over the country to try the testing. And from the time someone drops the sample in a mail box till they get an email that the test results are available is usually about 7 or 8 days - Regardless of where they are in the states. Winter weather did add a few days to a couple of tests. But 10 is the most I think anyone waited.


Stickboy, You might consider just a test on your new tank once it's cycled and stable - Make sure you don't have anything in the tank that you didn't know about... Rocks leeching things, copper getting thru RO/DI systems, bad salt mix.

Dave B

 

[Stickboy97]

The new 105 was an upgrade from my 75, so its up running and happy, no cycle.

As for things leaching.... who knows. So you think it would be a good idea to send in for a test before I start stocking it with corals? Right now I have a purple tang, a clown fish, and a leopard wrasse. 3 small zoa colonies, 1 yuma, & 3 nems.

 

[o2manyfish]

Stickboy,

It's 50 bucks a test. If you have any concerns or worries about water quality then spend the money - Chances are it's less than the cost of just one of your corals - and nothing compared to the dollar value of the livestock you are putting at risk.

If you are pretty confident that everything is clean, and you drop in some zoas, then mushrooms, then a euphyllia, then some montis, then birdsnest, then acros - And everything lives and is beautiful and happy then keep moving forward till you look at your tank and think.... Well maybe this or that could look a little better, and then start looking into seeing if the Triton Method works for your style of aquarium keeping.

If you have a bunch of corals from your upgrade that you are waiting to pop into the new tank. Then the cost of the test is nothing compared to the financial and emotional cost if you lost pieces you have from from sticks to colonies. And if you have this coral collection then do some more reading, and talk to other Triton users and decide, does this sound like my style of reef keeping.... and if so give it a try.

Dave B

 

[shih87]

I always try to avoid Triton ICP test. First reason is that I live in Taiwan, we have tried to group a small team and ship to lab in once, but the process make me step back.
Understand your water parameters is critical that I fully agree, but I rather choose a few coral to benchmark any specific trace element need.

Saying that, I will still try ICP test once if entire system went down side and I can't figure it out quick enough. Before that, I do test regularly by Salifert test kit on Iodine, Sr, Cu, K+, Iron and they are good enough from my view.

I use Zeovit for may years and quite happy the result, but last 6 months I start Zeovit + Aquaforest just for better daily operation and money save.

 

[Piper27]

Shih87 what level of iodine do you keep in your system? What suppliment do you use for it? I never could get the saliferts test to read. I have been dosing everyday for a while so maybe I should check again. Seems it leaves the water column or gets used so quickly the test just doesn't read it