Canarygirl
New member
I agree.
Sounds like this system is working great for you, Mike. How long have you been doing this dosing?
Zeovit
- Thread starter sailfintang
- Start date
I agree.
Sounds like this system is working great for you, Mike. How long have you been doing this dosing?
Sailfin,
Be careful.. 5ml may be fine... or it may be too much. Theres no exact science here. Please read the thread..
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...threadid=288714
You start out slow. And work your way up.
You start with .1ml and add a .1ml each day. so after 10 days your up to 1ml
You keep increasing this till you see a drop in P04 and N03.
Usually half that amount becomes your maintenance dose.
Be careful.. 5ml may be fine... or it may be too much. Theres no exact science here. Please read the thread..
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...threadid=288714
You start out slow. And work your way up.
You start with .1ml and add a .1ml each day. so after 10 days your up to 1ml
You keep increasing this till you see a drop in P04 and N03.
Usually half that amount becomes your maintenance dose.
sailfintang
Member
I read the thread and saw some people doing some combinations of dosing, someone even did 140ml for a 180 tank and hit a huge algae bloom. After the dose everything seems to be fine. I may scale it a bit down as i go if i notice anything unusual. But for now things seem to be in order. I might only do half of what i dosed today tomorrow. Dont want to deplete the system to quick awiating my other supplements to be delivered later in the week. thanks for all your help Zedar. Will keeo you all posted how the sytem comes along.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
Sounds like this system is working great for you, Mike. How long have you been doing this dosing?
I would have to go back and look at my notes but I think it's been 6 weeks now. I've pounded the tank with as many as six cubes worth of food in a single evening (for 4 fish). More often than not, I put the equivalent of four in every evening. I've gone through almost and entire can of flakes, a whole pack of mysis shrimp, a half of a small pack of brine, a half of a small jar of krill, a few tablespoons of vibragrow, and a few sheets of nori. No water changes.
This has been fairly exciting for me - I've lost fish due to starvation in years passed because I was so unwilling to let any nitrate or phosphate accumulate in the tank. Now, I'm considering the option of adding an intentional nitrate spike to see what it does to the SPS colors.
Before I tried this, I read a lot here on RC (maybe 150 pages) and probably an equal amount in various other forums on the web. The queue of articles and resources is still 100+ pages and growing quicker than I can read the ones I have.
I would have to go back and look at my notes but I think it's been 6 weeks now. I've pounded the tank with as many as six cubes worth of food in a single evening (for 4 fish). More often than not, I put the equivalent of four in every evening. I've gone through almost and entire can of flakes, a whole pack of mysis shrimp, a half of a small pack of brine, a half of a small jar of krill, a few tablespoons of vibragrow, and a few sheets of nori. No water changes.
This has been fairly exciting for me - I've lost fish due to starvation in years passed because I was so unwilling to let any nitrate or phosphate accumulate in the tank. Now, I'm considering the option of adding an intentional nitrate spike to see what it does to the SPS colors.
Before I tried this, I read a lot here on RC (maybe 150 pages) and probably an equal amount in various other forums on the web. The queue of articles and resources is still 100+ pages and growing quicker than I can read the ones I have.
madadi
ReefOG
i started with .5ml/20gals per an article posted earlier in this thread and somehow i ended up with 10ml of VSV mix in 3 days due to my impatience. everything looks rfine except my mushrooms. they are all wrinkled up. now, i can live without my mushrooms but i have 9 pink yumas that i don't feel the same about. is everyone else keeping ricordias, yumas and zoos successfully with this system? they tend to like more nutrients in the water then SPS. or did i just overdose the VSV mix? if i take the dose down i should be fine?
im going to reduce the dose to 1ml per day of SVS and add .5-1ml more every day till i can reach a maintenance dose. the total system volume is 120gal. there is so much information on this website about this, its hard to find the exact pages mentioning an ideal dose.
im going to reduce the dose to 1ml per day of SVS and add .5-1ml more every day till i can reach a maintenance dose. the total system volume is 120gal. there is so much information on this website about this, its hard to find the exact pages mentioning an ideal dose.
madadi,
Thats because there is no ideal dose. Every tank is different.
I have zoos. They're thriving. Cant comment on rics or yumas. My frogspawn loves this system.
It makes no sense that they would do bad in these low nutrient tanks.
Coral reefs are poor in dissolved inorganic nutrients (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates) but are very rich in organic nutrients (zooplankton, phytoplankton, detritus, algae, bacteria, etc).
These systems allow you to mimic that ecosystem.
Corals that have been in a typical reef tank have adapted to a very different environment then the one stated above.
High P04 and N03. This has become their food source, because most people don't provide anywhere near enough food for them.
Simply because, traditionally they couldn't feed enough without having an algae bloom in response.
So corals adapt and use what they have to work with. Now after years in such a tank if you attempt to change this environment quickly the results can be disastrous.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to provide them with an environment as close to a reef as possible.
Most people dont feed corals at all. Theres plenty of threads discussing this. Its my opinion theres a reason corals have stinging tentacles.
On a reef, the amount of zooplankton that passes by a coral at night is huge. This is their primary source of protein. The food they receive from zooxanthalle is in the form of sugar, the result of photosynthesis.
John
Thats because there is no ideal dose. Every tank is different.
I have zoos. They're thriving. Cant comment on rics or yumas. My frogspawn loves this system.
It makes no sense that they would do bad in these low nutrient tanks.
Coral reefs are poor in dissolved inorganic nutrients (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates) but are very rich in organic nutrients (zooplankton, phytoplankton, detritus, algae, bacteria, etc).
These systems allow you to mimic that ecosystem.
Corals that have been in a typical reef tank have adapted to a very different environment then the one stated above.
High P04 and N03. This has become their food source, because most people don't provide anywhere near enough food for them.
Simply because, traditionally they couldn't feed enough without having an algae bloom in response.
So corals adapt and use what they have to work with. Now after years in such a tank if you attempt to change this environment quickly the results can be disastrous.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to provide them with an environment as close to a reef as possible.
Most people dont feed corals at all. Theres plenty of threads discussing this. Its my opinion theres a reason corals have stinging tentacles.
On a reef, the amount of zooplankton that passes by a coral at night is huge. This is their primary source of protein. The food they receive from zooxanthalle is in the form of sugar, the result of photosynthesis.
John
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miwoodar
Likey the bikey
It's hard to determine the ideal dose from a one-size-fits-all recommendation. Each tank has the potential to be soooo different...nitrate and phosphate levels and the ratio between the two; number of and size of fish; surface areas of aerobic, anoxic, anaerobic zones; amount of food inputs for the fish, corals, and bacterias; bacteria strains and their relative quantities; filtration, flow, lighting aspects; health and size of the corals to begin with...the list is very long. For me, reading all these threads has opened more questions than they have answered. I feel a lot more confident that I'm doing something right - but it's a pandoras box. That's why I started at a small percentage of some of the most conservative dosing recommendations I found and have been looking to determine my maintenance dose using a known solution and known inputs. I will likely add a zeolitic stone down the road (manufacturer TBD) to support the growth of more bacteria so I can use it as a food source for the corals.
---edit----
zedar, it looks like we were posting simultaneously. It looks like we read a lot of the same stuff or at least share some common understandings
.
---edit----
zedar, it looks like we were posting simultaneously. It looks like we read a lot of the same stuff or at least share some common understandings
.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12178751#post12178751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by miwoodar
I
---edit----
zedar, it looks like we were posting simultaneously. It looks like we read a lot of the same stuff or at least share some common understandings
Yeah Ive too have scoured reefcentral to learn as much as possible. Its the sharing of ideas that moves this hobby in a forward direction.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
Yes, I've been feeding my corals too. They usually get whatever mush I've put together for the evening. I can see them eating though. They catch a lot - it's very easy to see them munching. I then target feed them with a baster maybe once or twice a week.
I forgot to add a half stick of cyclopeeze to the list above.
What did you use for your nitrate spike? I just got a copy of the Feb/Mar 2005 CORAL magazine that addresses how to ID nitrogen limitation, phosphate limitation, and the options on how to bump them relative to each other. Yes, the nitrate level on the reef is very low relative to what we often maintain in our tanks even if we are reading ND on our test kits. I can't explain why yet (I would try but I would just hack the explanation to unintelligible jibberish), but I think I'm going to eventually try it. Maybe we will get lucky and have someone chime in to take a good crack at it. Ahem, he deserves the credit anyways!
Kudos to everyone that continues to invest back into the community through the forums here and elsewhere on this (these!!!?) probiotic methods of reefkeeping.
BTW - J.Prostrata's tank is running 20ppm nitrates. He didn't do it on purpose but he's not trying to change it.
I forgot to add a half stick of cyclopeeze to the list above.
What did you use for your nitrate spike? I just got a copy of the Feb/Mar 2005 CORAL magazine that addresses how to ID nitrogen limitation, phosphate limitation, and the options on how to bump them relative to each other. Yes, the nitrate level on the reef is very low relative to what we often maintain in our tanks even if we are reading ND on our test kits. I can't explain why yet (I would try but I would just hack the explanation to unintelligible jibberish), but I think I'm going to eventually try it. Maybe we will get lucky and have someone chime in to take a good crack at it. Ahem, he deserves the credit anyways!
Kudos to everyone that continues to invest back into the community through the forums here and elsewhere on this (these!!!?) probiotic methods of reefkeeping.
BTW - J.Prostrata's tank is running 20ppm nitrates. He didn't do it on purpose but he's not trying to change it.
madadi
ReefOG
Zadar, miwoodar: thanks for the response. the fact that you guys agree is reassuring. what you say makes sense. im going to reduce the dose by a lot and start slow. if i understood right, if i developed a bacterial slime on everything or a bacterial bloom in the water column, i should stop increasing the dose and cut it by half. this will be my maintenance dose?
also, i been dosing a DIY amino acid thing and my polyp extension has been crazy just in 3 days. should i hold of on the amino acids and increased feeding till i reach my C maintenance dose? i might get increased algae if i don't right? thanks again.
also, i been dosing a DIY amino acid thing and my polyp extension has been crazy just in 3 days. should i hold of on the amino acids and increased feeding till i reach my C maintenance dose? i might get increased algae if i don't right? thanks again.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
I'm still trying to determine my dosages....but I've reasoned that the C and AA dosages will be related. For that reason, I reviewed the proprietary dosing systems manuals (there are many to help you these days) and used their guidance to help me get started on the AA's. I then progressed on both the C and AA's together.
madadi
ReefOG
ill continue to dose both in moderate doses. ill start very slow. i like how the sps corals responded to the AA. i took before pictures and hopefully ill be able to post some good results soon. ill try not to feed too much too soon because algae got a bit worse. ill wait for the corals to show a little lighter colors before i increase feeding.
reefknight
New member
Can you tell me where to find more reading material on the Zeo method? I noticed you made a reference to "dosing system manuals", and would like to read more in-depth on this. I can' t seem to find any articles except for a few on R/C. I am starting the Prodibio method, but would entertain the thought of switching to Zeo, thanks!
reefknight
New member
Cool, I'll start there!
brianbigoats
New member
CV and Bac need to be refrigerated
Canarygirl
New member
The new generation of CV doesn't need refrigeration anymore. It's either just bac, or bac and Food7 that need it now.
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