A. Grandis
Active member
I also like Fauna Marin very much!
What is the average pH of your systems?
How often do you change bulbs?
Do you dose amino acids and vitamins?
Thanks,
Grandis.
Zoa / Paly studies
- Thread starter zoafarm
- Start date
I also like Fauna Marin very much!
What is the average pH of your systems?
How often do you change bulbs?
Do you dose amino acids and vitamins?
Thanks,
Grandis.
i dont test for ph if i were dosing or using a calcium reactor i would be on it more, things are working now so if i mess with the ph it would risk ruining whats been created.
halides and t5's once a year, when using new bulbs i simply raise the height within a week or two they can go back down to normal height.im due for new bulbs and lights all around actually lol
i dose vit c ,cant say for sure if it helps or not but i can say it isnt hurting my system either
cheers!
A. Grandis
Active member
i dont test for ph if i were dosing or using a calcium reactor i would be on it more, things are working now so if i mess with the ph it would risk ruining whats been created.
halides and t5's once a year, when using new bulbs i simply raise the height within a week or two they can go back down to normal height.im due for new bulbs and lights all around actually lol
i dose vit c ,cant say for sure if it helps or not but i can say it isnt hurting my system either
cheers!
Thanks again, reefwars! :thumbsup:
Grandis.
Hey Grandis I am sorry I left the n off in your name so I fixed it.
There really aren't too many reasons as to why hobbyists would conduct much in the way of scientific research to be honest.
1. Not too many people are going to set up a set of tanks and focus on a single variable like lighting 8 hours/day vs. two 4 hour photoperiods/day and compare those photo periods vs. growth rates.
2. We are constantly adding or subtracting from our tanks such as adding more frags etc. so that goes along with #1.
3. Often when there is an issue we use a multifaceted approach to problem solve because we want results vs. looking at cause and effect.
4. Overall we make general observations on our tanks which is great but we would have a difficult time in making correlation statements without specifically addressing the situation prior to and after the observation period.
I suppose some reefers would like to do this but for most this really isn't that interesting. We are interested in the beauty of the hobby. Think about which tanks get the most traffic on RC and specifically in this forum: i2as kass for one (and he deserves it) and I bet reefwars (and he deserves it as well) tank will also.
I think overall that as long as zoas and palys are within the normal ranges of water quality and chemistry, the physical environment such as water movement is too and we are going to be able to maintain those levels over time then just about any polyp should survive and reproduce. Having just stated that not every color morph is going to do well in our closed systems. Why? Aren't zoas just beginner corals? If so they should never melt for no reason. Right? There is another active thread, the will they live one, that someone made the statement, "I had a frag just die for no reason." I would think "the frag died and I could not figure out the cause" would be a better statement. If an organism has lived and then died due to old age that is pretty remarkable in nature.
Also I think that we fall into the trap of patterns. We humans love patterns and identify them pretty easily. Little kids can do and we reefers do it all the time with our aquascaping and coral placement in an attempt to make things look natural. Freshwater plant aquariums are a prime example of this and though they are beautiful works of art to me they look more like landscapes with fish flying through the air than an image from a river or a lake. Yes some do look natural but overall to me they look to be forced. I have worked in high quality waters systems and though they are a hotspot of diversity they aren't picture perfect. I have read that FW keepers are ahead of SW ones but I have seen many SW tanks that look like a picture from nature. Yano's sps tank is a perfect example. This is just my opinion and I have digressed obviously but my point does relate comes back to zoas. I think we often generalize and group zoas and figure what works for this morph has to work for the next one. They look the same right? So they should grow the same right? Obviously you cannot state that I had 10 polyps grow this month with morph A and morph B looks similar so I should get 10 from them.
In my current tank I have had one frag grow a single additional polyp. For 4 months it was a single and since August it has been only a double. Why? That is a very good question and now I know what I want to ramble on about in or around 10 days from now.
I hope my rambling did not go on too long for everyone but I find the why questions more enjoyable to think about.
It would be nice if some of the more experienced guys like Much, Charles, and Organism gave their thoughts as well (as long as they agree with my points 100%).
There really aren't too many reasons as to why hobbyists would conduct much in the way of scientific research to be honest.
1. Not too many people are going to set up a set of tanks and focus on a single variable like lighting 8 hours/day vs. two 4 hour photoperiods/day and compare those photo periods vs. growth rates.
2. We are constantly adding or subtracting from our tanks such as adding more frags etc. so that goes along with #1.
3. Often when there is an issue we use a multifaceted approach to problem solve because we want results vs. looking at cause and effect.
4. Overall we make general observations on our tanks which is great but we would have a difficult time in making correlation statements without specifically addressing the situation prior to and after the observation period.
I suppose some reefers would like to do this but for most this really isn't that interesting. We are interested in the beauty of the hobby. Think about which tanks get the most traffic on RC and specifically in this forum: i2as kass for one (and he deserves it) and I bet reefwars (and he deserves it as well) tank will also.
I think overall that as long as zoas and palys are within the normal ranges of water quality and chemistry, the physical environment such as water movement is too and we are going to be able to maintain those levels over time then just about any polyp should survive and reproduce. Having just stated that not every color morph is going to do well in our closed systems. Why? Aren't zoas just beginner corals? If so they should never melt for no reason. Right? There is another active thread, the will they live one, that someone made the statement, "I had a frag just die for no reason." I would think "the frag died and I could not figure out the cause" would be a better statement. If an organism has lived and then died due to old age that is pretty remarkable in nature.
Also I think that we fall into the trap of patterns. We humans love patterns and identify them pretty easily. Little kids can do and we reefers do it all the time with our aquascaping and coral placement in an attempt to make things look natural. Freshwater plant aquariums are a prime example of this and though they are beautiful works of art to me they look more like landscapes with fish flying through the air than an image from a river or a lake. Yes some do look natural but overall to me they look to be forced. I have worked in high quality waters systems and though they are a hotspot of diversity they aren't picture perfect. I have read that FW keepers are ahead of SW ones but I have seen many SW tanks that look like a picture from nature. Yano's sps tank is a perfect example. This is just my opinion and I have digressed obviously but my point does relate comes back to zoas. I think we often generalize and group zoas and figure what works for this morph has to work for the next one. They look the same right? So they should grow the same right? Obviously you cannot state that I had 10 polyps grow this month with morph A and morph B looks similar so I should get 10 from them.
In my current tank I have had one frag grow a single additional polyp. For 4 months it was a single and since August it has been only a double. Why? That is a very good question and now I know what I want to ramble on about in or around 10 days from now.
I hope my rambling did not go on too long for everyone but I find the why questions more enjoyable to think about.
It would be nice if some of the more experienced guys like Much, Charles, and Organism gave their thoughts as well (as long as they agree with my points 100%).
A. Grandis
Active member
No problem about the "n"! I didn't even noticed! 
Some deep thoughts there! Indeed somehow enriching the thread...
I'll anxiously wait for our friends to show up!!! :beer::beer:
It's going to be great to know their thoughts too.
:bounce1::bounce2::bounce3:
Grandis.
Some deep thoughts there! Indeed somehow enriching the thread...
I'll anxiously wait for our friends to show up!!! :beer::beer:
It's going to be great to know their thoughts too.
:bounce1::bounce2::bounce3:
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
Would be great to hear from you today, about what you already know with the current experiences. Perhaps we all could learn a bit more.
Grandis.
Wow! I looked away for a few hours, and a wealth of experiences come pouring in.
Reefwars - Great information! All of which will go into my handy dandy reference guide. Especially, the parts on feeding and quick water changes. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to learning more as this builds.
Grandis - Those questions were dead on, and turned the conversation into something very useful. Thanks
So, on the subject of lights the favorite seems to be 250w MH and T5. I personally started with T5s and switched to LEDs about 9 months ago with mixed results (zoas/palys growth slowed or stopped for about 3 to 6 months -- SPS went from slow to fast). Even now some of my zoas (most added after LEDs and came from MH or T5 systems) have very slow growth...while some of the others seem to be picking up speed. Has anyone switched from MH to LED, and if so, were there changes in growth rates over time?
Reefwars - Great information! All of which will go into my handy dandy reference guide. Especially, the parts on feeding and quick water changes.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to learning more as this builds.Grandis - Those questions were dead on, and turned the conversation into something very useful. Thanks
So, on the subject of lights the favorite seems to be 250w MH and T5. I personally started with T5s and switched to LEDs about 9 months ago with mixed results (zoas/palys growth slowed or stopped for about 3 to 6 months -- SPS went from slow to fast). Even now some of my zoas (most added after LEDs and came from MH or T5 systems) have very slow growth...while some of the others seem to be picking up speed. Has anyone switched from MH to LED, and if so, were there changes in growth rates over time?
Wow! I looked away for a few hours, and a wealth of experiences come pouring in.
Reefwars - Great information! All of which will go into my handy dandy reference guide. Especially, the parts on feeding and quick water changes.
Grandis - Those questions were dead on, and turned the conversation into something very useful. Thanks
So, on the subject of lights the favorite seems to be 250w MH and T5. I personally started with T5s and switched to LEDs about 9 months ago with mixed results (zoas/palys growth slowed or stopped for about 3 to 6 months -- SPS went from slow to fast). Even now some of my zoas (most added after LEDs and came from MH or T5 systems) have very slow growth...while some of the others seem to be picking up speed. Has anyone switched from MH to LED, and if so, were there changes in growth rates over time?
we switched a while ago one of the halides for a radion on a shallow tank(12") it took a few months to actually adjust to the lighting , growth has exploded now though so its promising.
im about to change one of my display tanks to led now shortly, i expect growth to slow down alot as they adjust slowly to the par.
still though halides work great and i love them just so high maintannace and demanding lol
Out of curiosity, how high above the water levels did you put the Radion? Which Radion did you go with...XR30w or the pro version? I'm looking a the color range...they are different. I'm jumped on the DIY bandwagon, and need to add some new color ranges.
But since I decided to bypass the MH and go straight to LED, I feel even better about the move now. I still may need to tweek it a little, but it's nice to know that you are seeing positive results.
Earlier you mentioned you target feed all the time. Do you see faster growth from the meat eaters? Someone else mentioned they seem to get better grow from certain color zoa that are further from the light and vice versa. Do you observe anything close to this?
Also mentioned was "low light" zoas...can someone expand on this a little?
But since I decided to bypass the MH and go straight to LED, I feel even better about the move now.
I still may need to tweek it a little, but it's nice to know that you are seeing positive results.Earlier you mentioned you target feed all the time. Do you see faster growth from the meat eaters? Someone else mentioned they seem to get better grow from certain color zoa that are further from the light and vice versa. Do you observe anything close to this?
Also mentioned was "low light" zoas...can someone expand on this a little?
Out of curiosity, how high above the water levels did you put the Radion? Which Radion did you go with...XR30w or the pro version? I'm looking a the color range...they are different. I'm jumped on the DIY bandwagon, and need to add some new color ranges.
But since I decided to bypass the MH and go straight to LED, I feel even better about the move now.
Earlier you mentioned you target feed all the time. Do you see faster growth from the meat eaters? Someone else mentioned they seem to get better grow from certain color zoa that are further from the light and vice versa. Do you observe anything close to this?
Also mentioned was "low light" zoas...can someone expand on this a little?
we got the xr30w and started at 12" above water , although we didnt give them enough credit and i believe started to high...they really are quite strong.
on my new cube is going 2 x xr30w , now knowing what i know about the first one i should have an easier accimation this time around.
i do indeed heres a pic of a small candy apple redd frag eating mysis......there was one month i had 30 polyps grow from this type
im sure like any coral there are going to be some that prefer low light i have not seen a zoanthid that doesnt need light though.
SIR PATRICK
New member
I have found this interesting-
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222461
i have been waiting for more info to be added on the subject.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222461
i have been waiting for more info to be added on the subject.
A. Grandis
Active member
Good to have you here!! How're you doing?
They've got a nice number of zoas per plug and a very healthy/colorful collection!
Their second link in the page you've suggested is not working.
I've also been waiting for more info to be added here.
Grandis.
SIR PATRICK
New member
I didnt realize it, but the second link is the informative one....unfortunately it goes to a forum thats not supported by RC. I am guessing thats why the link is broken. I tried to find a link strait to Coral morphologic, but failed. Hope I didnt break any rules.
Its basically about no less than 4 undescribed zoa species found in florida.
It is my belief that there are several "strains" of zoas and palys that goes deeper than just zoas and palys. Alot of it breaks down anywhere from similar mouths, skirt structures, body densities, areas they came from, ect, ect.
One of these days, I am sure it will be broken down scientifically and profesionally. looks like Aquascappers is off to a good start on the subject, off in the florida waters. I would like to see it done in the indo, veitnam, fiji, solomon islands, and all the rest of the collecting areas also.
Its basically about no less than 4 undescribed zoa species found in florida.
It is my belief that there are several "strains" of zoas and palys that goes deeper than just zoas and palys. Alot of it breaks down anywhere from similar mouths, skirt structures, body densities, areas they came from, ect, ect.
One of these days, I am sure it will be broken down scientifically and profesionally. looks like Aquascappers is off to a good start on the subject, off in the florida waters. I would like to see it done in the indo, veitnam, fiji, solomon islands, and all the rest of the collecting areas also.
SIR PATRICK
New member
Ive been great! Glad to see ya still around also. I will be in and around more often, now that the chill has goten into the air.
A. Grandis
Active member
Oh ok, here is direct link for that article you're talking about:
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jmb/2012/856079/
Yep, hope they could come to Hawaii too!!
Cheers,
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
Does anyone know if there is a list of zoas/palys by collected area of the world? Also, do some of the same zoas/palys show up in different parts of the world? For instance, would something like say "Fruit Loops", for names sake, show up on the Great Barrier Reef and also in the Caribbean? Sorry, if this sounds like a simpleton question, but I'm taking notes and separating pertinent information. Thanks to all of you for your expert knowledge and opinions.
