Zoanthid experiment

[RobTop]

If this was a real expermint I might support it. But expermint implies a scienticific method. Hypothesis hoped for discovery expected out come. Instead you are doing this out of folly. Really?
Why not just find the nearest newbie and give them your coral. I think they will care for it better than you.
Really this is the best you have.
Really

 

[dread240]

well this escalated quickly

 

[GrandeAzul]

I thought it an interesting post. Perhaps flash freezing would work for long term storage. Hmmm.

 

[kingpin9995]

nothing really i do these types of experiments all the time

its nice to know the extent to which corals survive, ive been in the hobby for many many years and am always surprised with how hardy and delicate these animals can be

You do realize that you would take grief on this don't you? You come to a reefer site and tell us you are experimenting on the freezing of zoa's for no real reason.

Removed, this is a little extreme here.~dc.

 

[dc]

Let's take the criticism down a notch here guys.

 

[gaberosenfield]

I'm not sure what everyone is getting so upset about. Are all of you vegetarians? Perhaps vegans? If not, you are intentionally injuring animals with a much more developed nervous system and feeling of pain than zoas for the same reason as the OP is harming his zoas: for fun. I'm not making any comment about whether you should all be vegetarians, just to take a look at your own habits before you attack someone else who really isn't doing anything worse than you are.

To the OP: I am curious about your "experiments". Sure, they aren't really scientific, but it is still interesting. Let me know how the zoas survive desiccation.

 

[Mael]

^ I find that a very poor comparison. Most if not all of us do not have animals killed for "fun" We do it to gain food for sustanence. Plus PETA and the FDA keep decent tabs on how humanely the animals are killed, and have to as an animal that goes through a lot of stress at death tastes a lot worse.

In the case of these coral "experiments" No real benefit is being had as these can not be used as conclusive proof of alternate shipping methods for coral or anything else. While it may be a curio as to a zoa surviving freezing, which it did not, its hasnt benefitted anything.

Again, if it was a one time thing with 1 polyp I dont think it would be too bad, but it sounds like he is planning more experiments on these animals which is why people are getting a bit riled.

 

[KCFITZ78]

OP is not killing the whole animal. It was a frag. When anyone creates a frag you are putting the animal through stress and at risk of death. So I feel only members that have not taken a knife to these animals or have not purchased frags should have the floor for criticisms.

So who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone

 

[reefwars]

haha ok well figured id post


so if i got this right its ok to spray boiling water on aiptasia, zap them with a laser, cover them in glue...epoxy...kalk


how about crabs? so we can stab them ijn their hole flush them with soda or simply bait them out with food just to flush them down a toilet correct?


how about pods? are they not allowed life too? so we kill countless numbers every hour


its ok to get rid of a nudi whos done nothing but eat its required diet but yet not for a polyp?

you people do more if not much harsher " experiments " the only difference is ypou mask it with a stupid excuse like" well they were stinging my coral"

please.....how hypocritical


tell you what , if someone explains why its ok to do all the above and in fact recommended as the go to approaches for such things but its not ok to do an experiment on a single polyp ....that ive propogated in the thousands!! and grew from scratch lol id lovce to hear it.


any more room up there ?


lol


anyways my experiment wasnt for fun, it was to answer the question that cold temperatures arnt as harsh on zoanthids as you may believe. it actually started on the topic of a three day shipping trip for zoas which ive done many times , some one made the comment that they couldnt survive with no heat pak at all and then i commented that hell they could be frozen and still survive........ i was sort of right

i was wrong they wont survive long term from being frozen but its also not an immediate death sentance either as the polyp did infact survive the thaw and had responses.i do believe that i could bring it back if i interfered but i let it heal naturally and it needed help healing.

still though i find the topic interesting on how its ok to outright kill and demolish marine animals if they are invading something more pretty than it is but not allowed to experiment on a single polyp who has no brain or awareness of its surrounding.

its also ok to cut them with a blade, wet saw, intentionally place them with predators or simply sump them once your bored of them


zoas can be pests to did you know that ?


yeah its true believe it or not alot of reefers look for ways to remove them , not once thinking about doing it in a lively manner , most care only about saving what they WANT to keep lol

so please i love a good preaching but id love to hear the answers you have on this or i guess i already do


lol

anyways debate on folks experiment is done and thats that


the last question i have before i jet is .......

out of all of you , approve or dissaprove......


who has not intentially killed one of the above?

truthfully..

i bet theres a very few , and if it wasnt one of the above you probably killed a fish, sponge,shrimp....

theres always going to be a debate but ill give you some reality on the world... how do you think we found out boiling water kills polyps? fluke tabs clove polyps? kalk to anemones? ro/di water for nudis and bayer(?) for pests?

its simple


you did it!!!

 

[RobTop]

Wow. Best retort I have read in a long time. Well written and on point. Your right. I wasn't. My bad

 

[mbingha]

Lol simply epic.

 

[gaberosenfield]

Great response reefwars. I still think killing animals for meat in the developed world is for fun, since we do not need to eat meat to survive (just ask a vegetarian if they are still living without eating meat). But clearly your response challenges people's way of life less than mine while getting the same point across

 

[reefwars]

Great response reefwars. I still think killing animals for meat in the developed world is for fun, since we do not need to eat meat to survive (just ask a vegetarian if they are still living without eating meat). But clearly your response challenges people's way of life less than mine while getting the same point across

dont get me wrong i do get where some people are coming from but at the same time they need to take a step back and realize this hobby is both large and microscopic and everywhere in between so its a very grey area for sure to say the least ,i dont mean to be rude at all but there is no fine line from alive to alive.....theres not right?........ and basically our whole hobby is a threat to animals, its fact and we cant change it and caused it ourselves for the only reason that we like pretty things lol the rest of the world is frowning down on us trust me

theres always going to be two sides to the whole whats right and whats not story when it comes to aquariums, working in the industry ive learned to smile and say " good for you and im glad it worked" alot of times i run into issues that i dont believe are moral or right but at the end of the day im not a crusader and people are free to do what they like untill we can come up with a solid way to giovern things, untill then its free for all sadly..

home experiments like this have gone on longer than the hobby has , it founded the hobby for petes sake lol do you really think a bunch of guys in a lab said " we got it!! tell everyone we can now keep marine animals" no it didnt go like that in fact the hobby grew from trial and error, its brutal ill agree but at the same time its brought us where we are today.

this hobby is about to under go a crippling effect within the next 10yrs , we are already seeing it around the world and we dont have a leg to stand on.

hth

 

[A. Grandis]

Yeah! You're right! If they are pests kill's all!!
LOL!!
I think the only zoas we can really manage and decide what's going to die or not are ours.
LOL!!

I've been killing Aiptasias for at least 20 years! LOL!

My concern was only about other people that like to criticize our hobby because they could use that type of experiment agains us. But you know what? That's fine… Go ahead!!!

I'm not a vegetarian!! No way!
LOL!
Grandis.

 

[Reefer54]

I was also thinking about this, and with the recent cold, i have noticed the reproduction rate of certain palys and soas is much slower than others.....the ones that shipped and experienced much colder shipping are turning to be much slower in reproduction (though the health is not noticeably lesser than the warmer ones) and vice versa, the warmer recieved packages turn out to reproduce faster.

you could store polyps at a consistant temp (like in the fridge) for extended periods of time and see which polyps regain health fastest and ultimately start reproduction fastest. I would propose that some species are more tolerant and hardier than others, and such, a fast grower, medium grower and slow grower all be tested at the same conditions.

3 species
3 polyp colony test subjects x 3 per species
each colony exposed to 1 day, 2 days, and 3 days in temps of relative concern for what our shipping practices expose colonies to or colder.

at the end of this (when all colonies are healthy and reproducing) we could determine a threshold of low temperatures which shipping should not fall below, and expectations for time needed before regaining health,etc.

just another idea....

i am not against you, just think you could direct your experiments for a benefit.

 

[Reefer54]

and yeah, if God did not want us to eat animals, they wouldnt be so delicious.

 

[reefwars]

I was also thinking about this, and with the recent cold, i have noticed the reproduction rate of certain palys and soas is much slower than others.....the ones that shipped and experienced much colder shipping are turning to be much slower in reproduction (though the health is not noticeably lesser than the warmer ones) and vice versa, the warmer recieved packages turn out to reproduce faster.

you could store polyps at a consistant temp (like in the fridge) for extended periods of time and see which polyps regain health fastest and ultimately start reproduction fastest. I would propose that some species are more tolerant and hardier than others, and such, a fast grower, medium grower and slow grower all be tested at the same conditions.

3 species
3 polyp colony test subjects x 3 per species
each colony exposed to 1 day, 2 days, and 3 days in temps of relative concern for what our shipping practices expose colonies to or colder.

at the end of this (when all colonies are healthy and reproducing) we could determine a threshold of low temperatures which shipping should not fall below, and expectations for time needed before regaining health,etc.

just another idea....

i am not against you, just think you could direct your experiments for a benefit.

i like this idea, im a curious individual and alot of the time seeing is believeing.

when it comes to shipping theres a few variables i think play a huge role one is the temp once heat paks raise and lower .

another is the constant tumbling of the box its self , even with styrofoam they get smashed around the edges of the bags.

if a rock is used for a large colonie im sure there runs the issues of weight and being squished.

i do know that heat has alot worse effects on zoanthids then cold this i have experienced time and time again

 

[KafudaFish]

Great response reefwars. I still think killing animals for meat in the developed world is for fun, since we do not need to eat meat to survive (just ask a vegetarian if they are still living without eating meat). But clearly your response challenges people's way of life less than mine while getting the same point across

Except bacon.

 

[reeferstace]

I don't eat or wear animals and haven't for over twenty years. I also don't needlessly harm them. This is nothing but cruelty. I hope you don't have other pets.

 

[reefwars]

I also don't needlessly harm them.

so you dont have an aquarium then?

cool