Zoas not doing well

[A. Grandis]

Well guess what I found a nudi, super small. I pulled it out, but should I be concerned about eggs? Ya think I stopped the problem.

Keep watching for eggs and more nudis!
I'm glad your problem is solved, Johnic!
Take care!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

it really does , after using it for so long you start to think your system is immune to its strength but its a hard lesson learned . ****ed off zoas usually only last for a few days as po4 rises again or as the decline in po4 stops its sudden drop. small amounts changed out more often are a bit more forgiving then a large dose all at once.

reefwars:

That's one of the things that will harm some species of zoas, because of the instability. Sometimes bacterial infection takes over after that and so on...
One of the main focus keeping zoanthids is stability.
Even the GAC does that sometimes...
Yep, the quantity of GAC and/or GFO is the key when using them, but IF their use is unnecessary, then why have it?

You feed lots and have a big system, as you've said before, than the use of GFO is welcome. That's probably why you are so grateful for the product.
Some of the plugs in your system, even with the GFO, still have algae, so perhaps you'll need to put more media or cut back the feeding.
Nothing wrong using GFO... as long as you need, and learn how to.

Most smaller home systems could be without the GFO and do great, like mine.

Those are the 2 sides of the coin.

My point, as aways, is just to alert people about it.

I got your point of view long ago. I'm just bring this up here so people understand the whole picture when they read this thread. Not to argue.

I made a mistake to assume that johnic knew about the predators, irritators and such things first.
Perhaps I was too excited to tell him to remove the media(?). :hmm4:
Yeah, I was, sorry. LOL!!!!!!

Glad problem was solved!


Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

So...

Main thing is the balance, as aways!
Not too many nutrients (AKA dirty water!!!!), but not removing them like crazy, using GAC/GFO in a small system.

Input and export needs to be balance out and how you're going to achieve such balance depends on you. Search, search, search and search.

Another thing is the money. If you really need a reactor, please know that you'll have to get the media for it, and that costs money too. If you don't need, you'll be able to use that money buying corals!! :bum:

The export of phosphates and organics can be easily done with a good skimmer, selecting food, partial water changes and perhaps GAC for most home systems. If you can't keep up with that, please search for the GFO and learn how to use it.

Not a big deal!
:beer:

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Very true about dirty water. My last tank I had a AIO filter and it wasn't cleaning the tank good enough, got a ton of HA and Bryopsis but the zoa's looked awesome.
This tank I went completely opposite got a killer skimmer run gfo from the start, have filter socks and do 1% water changes each day. My sps like it but my zoas not so much.

You've said your "zoas not so much". Why are you saying that?
Is the overall picture of the system showing all the zoas unhappy?
Could they be better. Sounds like you don't need GFO.
Maybe you could at least cut some of the media, keeping only keep 50% of the GFO to see what happens.

Avoid too much water changes.
It's totally fine to do 10% every week or 2, than killing yourself every single day.

Like I've said before: search and see your needs...

Grandis.

 

[Johnic]

You've said your "zoas not so much". Why are you saying that?
Is the overall picture of the system showing all the zoas unhappy?
Could they be better. Sounds like you don't need GFO.
Maybe you could at least cut some of the media, keeping only keep 50% of the GFO to see what happens.

Avoid too much water changes.
It's totally fine to do 10% every week or 2, than killing yourself every single day.

Like I've said before: search and see your needs...

Grandis.

Well I hope I found the only nudi. I took the zoa pods out with the exception of one due to it being attached to rock and soaked them in coral rx. Let's see if they improve.

 

[A. Grandis]

Yeah, look for the eggs too. Use a magnifying glass for that.
Good luck!

Grandis.

 

[reefwars]

reefwars:

That's one of the things that will harm some species of zoas, because of the instability. Sometimes bacterial infection takes over after that and so on...
One of the main focus keeping zoanthids is stability.
Even the GAC does that sometimes...
Yep, the quantity of GAC and/or GFO is the key when using them, but IF their use is unnecessary, then why have it?

You feed lots and have a big system, as you've said before, than the use of GFO is welcome. That's probably why you are so grateful for the product.
Some of the plugs in your system, even with the GFO, still have algae, so perhaps you'll need to put more media or cut back the feeding.
Nothing wrong using GFO... as long as you need, and learn how to.

Most smaller home systems could be without the GFO and do great, like mine.

Those are the 2 sides of the coin.

My point, as aways, is just to alert people about it.

I got your point of view long ago. I'm just bring this up here so people understand the whole picture when they read this thread. Not to argue.

I made a mistake to assume that johnic knew about the predators, irritators and such things first.
Perhaps I was too excited to tell him to remove the media(?). :hmm4:
Yeah, I was, sorry. LOL!!!!!!

Glad problem was solved!


Grandis.

So all in all what your saying is gfo works good , can and is good to use , and that the links you post about gfo the authors also use themselves along with other methods and promote as a handy tool for reef aquaria

Got it lol

I still don't see your argument , if it makes life easier then why wouldn't I want to use it? Especially when it's been proven time and time and time again , it's not a snake oil it's chemical fact:debi:

I use vinegar..... Not needed but makes keeping nutrients low easier

I use gfo ........not needed but makes keeping po4 and silicates low easier

I use a skimmer....not needed but makes keeping my system aerated and removes doc easier

I do water changes ......not needed but makes removing built up organics and replenishing trace elements easier

I dose automated.....not needed but beats dosing by hand

I use cheato....not needed but helps in nutrient reduc


A lot of things not needed in this hobby but unlike 10 yrs ago we try to go ahead in the hobby not sit stale on the same practices we fought to advance?



Instead of doing what google tells you , try actually practicing some of these things one day , who knows maybe you'll have a nice reef you can show off to people one day?

Still waiting on that pic btw

 

[reefwars]

Perhaps I was too excited to tell him to remove the media(?). :hmm4:
Yeah, I was, sorry. LOL!!!!!!



Grandis.

You nailed it on the head actually , you missed what was basic and obvious All because your mind was clouded with your unnecssary crusade to abolish gfo to the reef world , so you seen the word gfo and broke out the pickette signs and was about to lead this person into an all out war for gfo when ,in fact had nothing to do with his media choices .

You have said yourself you never ran gfo , but yet have such a strong hate for something that has a very good place in the hobby , you talk about the negative effects but not once speak of the benefits , you link articles and say gfo is bad , yet scroll up a few forums and these authors talk gfo all day with ALOT of benefits and good uses in the hobby , hell they even use it in their own personal systems ........that's a little close minded don't you think?


I guess though if you read enough stuff on the Internet your mind makes you think you have something to fear , when all you needed to do was see it with your own eyes , there's something to say about self practices vs Wikipedia

 

[A. Grandis]

So all in all what your saying is gfo works good , can and is good to use , and that the links you post about gfo the authors also use themselves along with other methods and promote as a handy tool for reef aquaria

Got it lol

I still don't see your argument , if it makes life easier then why wouldn't I want to use it? Especially when it's been proven time and time and time again , it's not a snake oil it's chemical fact:debi:

I use vinegar..... Not needed but makes keeping nutrients low easier

I use gfo ........not needed but makes keeping po4 and silicates low easier

I use a skimmer....not needed but makes keeping my system aerated and removes doc easier

I do water changes ......not needed but makes removing built up organics and replenishing trace elements easier

I dose automated.....not needed but beats dosing by hand

I use cheato....not needed but helps in nutrient reduc


A lot of things not needed in this hobby but unlike 10 yrs ago we try to go ahead in the hobby not sit stale on the same practices we fought to advance?



Instead of doing what google tells you , try actually practicing some of these things one day , who knows maybe you'll have a nice reef you can show off to people one day?

Still waiting on that pic btw

Oh man!!
No google search for that, really.
What I try to avoid is the waste of money!!!

What picture?
For what?
LOL!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

You nailed it on the head actually , you missed what was basic and obvious All because your mind was clouded with your unnecssary crusade to abolish gfo to the reef world , so you seen the word gfo and broke out the pickette signs and was about to lead this person into an all out war for gfo when ,in fact had nothing to do with his media choices .

You have said yourself you never ran gfo , but yet have such a strong hate for something that has a very good place in the hobby , you talk about the negative effects but not once speak of the benefits , you link articles and say gfo is bad , yet scroll up a few forums and these authors talk gfo all day with ALOT of benefits and good uses in the hobby , hell they even use it in their own personal systems ........that's a little close minded don't you think?


I guess though if you read enough stuff on the Internet your mind makes you think you have something to fear , when all you needed to do was see it with your own eyes , there's something to say about self practices vs Wikipedia

I was teasing you, man! LOL!!
If you read all my posts you'll see that is what I've been trying to tell you long ago.
Besides the waste of money, if the person doesn't need, and the fact that GFO could give you lots of headaches when a "little mistake" happens!! That you know...



Grandis.

 

[reefwars]

I was teasing you, man! LOL!!
If you read all my posts you'll see that is what I've been trying to tell you long ago.
Besides the waste of money, if the person doesn't need, and the fact that GFO could give you lots of headaches when a "little mistake" happens!! That you know...



Grandis.

theres lots of things that could give me lots of reef headaches no?

overdosing , malfunctioned heaters, electrical cords in my tank, bad fish, bad food , bad carbon, bad salt ...bad bad bad....and the list is endless.....i still do those and use these things , i could focus on the negative things only about these things but i accept the cautions of each of these as well the benefits of these as well. if i closed myself off to these things completely how would the advice i give be accurate when on the subject? it cant really be , only from what others tell you and well you know what they say about that. without giving all these an honest shot and seeing their side effects first hand how would i know whats true and whats not?

im glad i give all this stuff a honest shot , if i hadnt i would have a doser, i wouldnt have an ATO, i wouldnt have coral food and many other things that have advanced us in the hobby.


carbon is also expensive , you run it i know this as youve said so numerous times.

so you change it out every few weeks i would assume which is costly ?

you know its not needed right and could lead to lots of potential issues both in its application, removal and the health of livestock....in fact is a very debateable topic just like gfo but you gave it a shot and regardless of the " carbon crashed my tank threads" your now a believer that it has its place in the hobby.




also , i dont under stand why a person should have to cutback on feeding in order to keep po4 low , why would i deprive an animal in my care of food for the sole purpose of keeping nutrients down ? seems kinda wrong when i know i can feed these animals multiple times a day and with the help of a little science still be in the same boat as a guy who feeds the fish less to save a few points on a test kit.

running gfo doesnt mean youll be algae free, if your reading this online then youve been misinformed ,its just another way to bind and remove phosphates to keep a daily addition down , its a tool to be used with other tools.

in fact if you carbon dose youll be removing much more nitrogen then phosphourous , alot more.... its in fact recommended to keep po4 down to the same ratio levels to allow the process to build and gfo is alot of the times the way to go to get it back in line quickly and keep up with the carbon dosing process. lanthinum cloride is another way , does the same job just harder to control and dose, used alot of times to cure rock with great results....lots of good situations gone bad as well when you google it.


in my home system its a combination of gfo, vinegar,macro algae and oversized skimming that keeps the system in check, this isnt a new approach its actual very basic compared to alot of other systems out there.

 

[A. Grandis]

Oh man, again!? LOL!

Ok, yeah, You know... almost everything I use is because I need. I need a skimmer, really!
I need the GAC to remove the excess of organics here. Other wise algae shows up. I know I need because I've got 10 fishes in a 75gal.!

Some stuff I try out because I want to improve the health of my organisms, like foods, additives, medicines ...

I change my GAC every 2 to 6 months, depending on what's going on in the system. I use the Premium Rox 0.8 from Bulkreef:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bulk-premium-rox-0-8-aquarium-carbon.html
I also use Chemi-Pure sometimes, instead of Rox 0.8.

Sincerely, I don't give a shot to GFO because I really don't need it. Thank God!!! Never needed... I've learn long ago to control my phosphates without any trouble at all, so...
That's what I've been trying to tell you for centuries! LOL!
If I can, anyone with similar setup can!!!!

I don't remember saying that GFO doesn't have it's place in the hobby.
Many very nice tanks, as we know, have it running because they need/want.

I've met many people that told me GAC isn't the way to go with zoas, but I need it to help me out, so I had to learn how to use without affect my zoas. i don't believe every one needs GAC either!!! The only reason I use GAC is because of the number of fishes. I've been using GAC only for the past 4 years or so. It helps me. Too many fishes for a small tank!!! They eat, you know!? LOL!!

I'm glad you like to use GFO and works great for you!

It's good to have different opinions here, so people can rethink/decide.

If everyone would listen to you, they would right a way get the reactor.
If many would listen to me, they would search, and possibly save their money and get some more corals instead. :thumbsup:
But if they really need the help of a GFO reactor they would have to listen when I say that in that case that would be their best bet. Just learn your system and how to use the GFO... In some of the cases they wouldn't even need a reactor.
I don't have a reactor for my GAC!!!

I just think that if you can live without GFO, to get one running would be just a waste of money, time and space to have that reactor there!

Let them decide.

I believe that everyone has the right to decide and search for what they want/need.
Who am I to impose. I don't need that at all.
It's all good.

There is no way to say that GFO is bad or good, but it can easily give you unnecessary problems when misused. Why have it if you don't need. Common sense!
GAC is a much safer product. No comparison!!

I think we have already exposed our opinions enough about the subject.
Just let people decide and give theirs as well, please.

Have a great day and keep that system beautiful!

Have fun reading:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/

Grandis.

 

[shesacharmer]

Gee Whiz...and all I was doing was a search for some causes to closed zoas...Geesh!