Zoas Receeding Concern - Requesting Help

[bwyoung]

Hello,

I have mainly a SPS tank, but one side section is all zoanthids. Over the last few months, mainly looking back at pictures, I have lost about 40% of the total colonies. The SPS corals have been growing quickly with no other tank issues. I have not added any new corals in over 6 months.

120 gallon tank + 75 gallon sump
1.025 SG
450 Calcium
1300 Mg
8-10 dkH alk
79F temp

These values are kept constant via dosers and water testing. I do run carbon as well. No lighting changes or duration - twin 10K 250W MH Ushios and twin actinic VHOs.

I was wondering what your thoughts are on the cause and possible solution.

***Here is what part of the colony looked like in Jan. 2009. This was very similar to what they looked like in early June 2009 as well***

Here are some from today:

One colony on its own rock may look like pox (?):

Here are others, that have grown over my live rock and cannot be removed from the tank. They do not have a pox-like speckles, they are just thinning out:

Thank you!

 

[bwyoung]

Any thoughts yet? Thanks.

 

[650-IS350]

If it's not fungus, then you might have an eager nipper in there. fish list ?

 

[morphiii]

Are you running any carbon?

 

[kkdoughboy]

That Sailfin looks very interested in your Zoas! Keep an eye on that sneaky guy

 

[bwyoung]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15445325#post15445325 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 650-IS350
If it's not fungus, then you might have an eager nipper in there. fish list ?

Thanks for the help!

I do not see anything bad as far as lesions, coatings, etc. They are all opened up right now. They are just severely thinning...

Here is my fish list (the only fish I added this year was the Goby):

6" Sailfin Tang
4" Hippo Tang
"Rose" Wrasse
Christmas Wrasse
2 False Perculas
Starry Blenny
Mandarin Goby
Diamondback Goby
Royal Gramma

Other Animals:

Hermit crabs
Cleaner shrimp
Peppermint shrimp
Emerald Crab (haven't seen him in a while)
Cucumber
Conch
4 rose bubble-tipped anemones


And, yes, I do run carbon.

 

[kkdoughboy]

I think maybe you should trim some off of each colony and send them to me for testing. You might have a major problem on your hands but only testing will tell. Just make sure you send me healthy specimens for accurate testing and also that fabulous rose bubble anemone as well . Lol

 

[kkdoughboy]

No really, you are experiencing maturing, rapidly growing colonies. They are spreading and the compacted colonies are fighting for "the good light" so to speak. That's why they are spreading. Doesn't look like any fungal or detrimental issue. Just a great representation of reefkeeping. Happy reefkeeping! Chris

 

[SIR PATRICK]

A hippo tang is a well known zoa lover. Not all are, but many are. Keep an eye on it.

Just a couple more questions to add to the info gotten already-

You say your sps are doing great.

Are their colors/polyps all the right colors they are supposed to be? are some of the sps that are supposed to be another color green?

Are you running any low nutrient methods?

Do you skim heavily?

Just asking, because alot of the methods to get sps to grow well and keep their colors arent always the best conditions to keep zoanthids (especialy large colonies) alive and well. A little more info on your system might help with an answer, but definitly keep an eye on the hippo tang.

Could be either the tank conditions, the tang, or a totally different reason. Just trying to help.

IME zoas tend to like nutrient conditions that "can" turn sps green, like higher nutrient levels.

Tank feeding info might help a bit too. I have known many that keep the correct condition for sps to be at their best, and also be able to keep zoas/palys thriving under the ideal sps conditions with frequent tank feedings.

Alot of sps keepers have a hard time keeping zoas in the same tank, due to nutrient factors.

 

[650-IS350]

my pics...
6" Sailfin Tang
4" Hippo Tang

or which is my 2nd guess but would take longer to occur and allow you to notice it happening is them not getting as my flow and light anymore. It probably would have been ok when they were smaller frags or colonies but at that size, might not be getting the much needed flow? just a hypotesis. I still lean on the HIPPO more than the sailfin. HIPPOS are KNOWN to pluck polyps like popcorn.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Just went back through your pics posted.

Your sps looked exelent!

As stated, watch the hippo, but also take a really good look at your nutrient levels. Your sps, to me, look far to nice for your nutrient levels to be compatible with what keeps large zoanthid colonies happy. (unless you skim heavily, use socks that get washed every day, and feed very heavily)

I could very well be wrong, but both peices of advice are worth looking into.

 

[650-IS350]

I don't see any power heads near or around the polyps. Are you relying on a closed loop of type for flow ???

 

[kkdoughboy]

Look at the location of the unhealthy polyps. All on the fighting edge of the nutrient/light spectrum.

 

[bwyoung]

Here is some more info you and others requested.

The SPS's doing "great" meaning they are growing quickly and they are all healthy. IMO, I do not have the super-punchy colors though - either from water conditions or my 10K lights. One capri. I bought last year went from hunter green to lime green in a few months, but is growing fast.

Regarding nutrients, I skim and empty the cup about once per week with a Euro Reef 180. I feed about 4 cubes per day of shrimp, krill or mysis. I add Selcon to the food every other week. I clip several sheets of macroalgae each morning. The anemones get a silverside once a week. I target feed the SPSs with baby brine shrimp every few weeks. Does this sound like light, moderate or heavy feeding?

I have a bit or cyano/red algae issue just in the sump recently which made me believe my nutrients are too high though (?).

I use reef crystals and water change about 15 gal/month lately. I do not dose other chemicals besides the 2 part solutions kits and Mg.

So it sounds like zoas prefer conditions closer to mushrooms than SPS... What are the perfect water and nutrient conditions?

I will keep an eye on the Hippo too.

I do rely on my C.L. pump (1500 gph) and the return pump(500 gph) to maintain flow. I bounce its return off the glass to blow down that side which I have not changed. The colony on the sand still seems unaffected too. (Are those *spots* I see an issue too?)

The light has been slightly reduced due to the SPS above growing, but not appreciably. A few months ago the zoas were growing so well they were trying hard to get through the "caves" to the other side (which would have turned in to a weed!). They got tall and pale in those areas obviously.


Thanks to all!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15447588#post15447588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SIR PATRICK
A hippo tang is a well known zoa lover. Not all are, but many are. Keep an eye on it.

Just a couple more questions to add to the info gotten already-

You say your sps are doing great.

Are their colors/polyps all the right colors they are supposed to be? are some of the sps that are supposed to be another color green?

Are you running any low nutrient methods?

Do you skim heavily?

Just asking, because alot of the methods to get sps to grow well and keep their colors arent always the best conditions to keep zoanthids (especialy large colonies) alive and well. A little more info on your system might help with an answer, but definitly keep an eye on the hippo tang.

Could be either the tank conditions, the tang, or a totally different reason. Just trying to help.

IME zoas tend to like nutrient conditions that "can" turn sps green, like higher nutrient levels.

Tank feeding info might help a bit too. I have known many that keep the correct condition for sps to be at their best, and also be able to keep zoas/palys thriving under the ideal sps conditions with frequent tank feedings.

Alot of sps keepers have a hard time keeping zoas in the same tank, due to nutrient factors.

 

[650-IS350]

If you have a small extra power head handy, you might want to experiment and place it the polyps vacinity and place the flow towards them. Make sure it's indirect flow, not battering them.

My bet is still on the tang'S though not just the hippo. The sailfin can do just as much damage. They can chop of a single polyp in a bite or 2 without you even seeing it. Try video taping that area while your out, you might catch something happening during the course.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Sounds like you are doing exactly what you need to do to keep sps happy, but still keep zoas, with no issues. Thumbs up to you. Its not an easy thing to do! (unless you like ugly sps unlike the peices pictured)

By higher nutrients, I dont mean dirty, by any means. Sounds like you feed very well and your parameters have got to be good to keep the colors on your sps that you have going on right now.

Now that that info is put out there, I would put some effort watching the tangs. They can be model citizens for a long time, but once they get the first taste, it can go downhill quickly.

I dont see any other obviose reasons for your zoas to decline.

It has also, IME, been proven that tangs that havent been busted yet as polyp eaters do it when they dont know they are being watched.

650's info on the cam, or watching them when they dont know it is a good idea.

 

[bwyoung]

Thanks for the tips! I will keep an eye on the tangs. I did not know they could be interested in the Zoas.

I tweaked my return flow head a bit to be a little more forceful in their area. I will also try a power head to see what happens.

I am hoping to reverse their growth trend as I designated the side tank just for the zoas!

 

[Pufferpunk]

After trying all the above, check into vitamin C. There's a huge thread here with great results.