zoos ? ? ?

package

Member
Hopefully this is OK under RC, but I am a desperate guy at this point and this may get a little lengthy.

I have a 210g mixed reef, mostly ricordia and zoos but there are some frogspawn, hammers, blasto and three montipora.

The tank came mostly from a 125g that came from a 90g that came from a 75g so some of the stuff in there mostly rock is close to 10 years old. The 210 has been up for 3 years this May. Up to about 2 years ago it was just soft corals and LPS, everything grew great, never an issue. Then I got the SPS bug but not the dedication required to keep them. I did not keep my PH, Alk and Calcium in check, after my last episode of the kalk reactor creating a snow storm, I cut my losses kept only a few SPS. My fish are 3 small gobies, purple tang, powder brown tang, scribbled rabbit fish, african cleaner wrasse, hippo tang and flame angel. Since my kalk snow storm I have not been able to reliably keep zoos. I do have colonies with over 100, but if I were to bring in 4 frags tomorrow, 2 of them could be gone the next day and perhaps the other 2 a month later. For example, I had 3 large rocks of blue zoos they all slowly disappeared leaving just a melted gray film, then nothing all in about 3 days time. I can buy frags and throw them in my 75g tank at my office and they do fine. I do fewer water changes, never check anything, have a raggedy skimmer, PC lights, a nothing special standard reef but the zoos will grow and grow.


I have bought $100s of dollars in zoos over the past year just to watch every other one melt away.

Here is what is not causing my issues....

1. It is not due to salinity - 1.025, 2 refractometers calibrated.
2. It is not due to water changes - 65g monthly.
3. skimmer ASM GX4 skims wetter, fills up 3 days.
4. lights, just changed MHs 250wX2, 400wX1, with 360w actinics.
5. MHs 9 hours per day, actinics 10
6. Temperature - 77-80.
7. PH 8.1-8.35, recently calibrated.
8. Salt was IO, now Oceanic
9. Stray voltage - yes, but not today as I watch 1 melt, normally grounded - it was another failed experiment.
10. alk is normally between 10-12 dKH.
11. calcium is normally low around 320.
12. no measureable nitrates or nitrites.
13. circulation is high, 2 tunze 6100s, mag 12 return, mag 7 on a sea swirl, mag 9 on a closed loop, external 1200 g/hr. on a closed loop, 2 koralia3s (my stray voltage source).
14. I dose a little vitamin C from time to time powder 100% pure.
15. zoos are spread throughout the tank and do equally poor in every area = everything else is thriving, no non-zoo causalties.
16. have searched at night and evening for any zoo preditors, never seen any and think it is extremely unlikely since it is almost always any new zoo that is introduced even if there is 1 on each side of the tank.
17. ATO is RO/DI water through a kalk reactor with pickling lime. I got my reactor, RO/DI and lime from the same place some of you got yours and RO/DI is in good shape, less than 10 ppm.
18. I realize the rabbit fish, hippo tang and flame angel have been zoo or coral nippers. I am not seeing that. I am not seeing it randomly. It is new coral and sometime (like today) something that had been fine for months.


If someone would solve this mystery, I would leave them a $50 gift certificate at the their choice Reef shop ......as I watch a rock full of zoos that were open nice yesterday and everyday for the last few months melt away before my eyes. The colony today is in 2 sections on 1 large rock. One section is melting away the unattached 2nd section is doing fine.


Any help would be extremely appreciated. This is not BS, not only a gift certificate but also frags - I am quite desperate. Over the years I have made it through cyno outbreaks, hair algae, calupera, ICH, kalk snow storms, bubble algae, just about any bad thing that could happen but there was always a solution, perhaps a hard one but an answer. I need an answer.
 
Doubt I'll be much help since you just described MY 220. :(
Went through the random zoa melt/disappearance for about a year before the tank crashed. Established 100 polyp colonies to new frags totally random in nature.
I had and corrected a stray voltage issue all parameters fine yada yada yada.
Like you they did fine in a different tank.

Things I did after talking with Matt and Jim.
1. A couple of 100+ gallon water changes (this was after the crash but in hind site I wish I'd done it earlier). It did stabilize what was left but I'd already lost most corals.
Decided then to add nothing new for 1 year so I don't know if it "cured" the problem or not. The remaining "zoas" are all palys or para/proto palys and I've had no problems with them.
Spent last year upgrading and stocking my 20 so I still haven't added anything to that tank.
2. Replaced 150+ pounds of 8+ year old live rock with new cooked fuji I got from jimsreef. Didn't make any difference.

What I'd try
1. Dose vit C daily at the recommended dose for infection not maintenance. Since you're trying it I assume you've followed the vitamin C thread.
2. If you haven't already throw a poly-filter in. I doubt it'll show anything but we're grasping at straws here.
3. A couple large water changes.


Questions
1. Does you alk swing from 10-12 or is it 11?
2. If a piece starts to melt will it turn around if you put it i the 75?
3. Your remaining colonies how many are palys vs. zoas?

Long winded reply to say I have no answer. :lol:
Honestly I'd say dosing Vit C regularly may be your best bet.
 
Doubt I'll be much help since you just described MY 220. :(
Went through the random zoa melt/disappearance for about a year before the tank crashed. Established 100 polyp colonies to new frags totally random in nature.
I had and corrected a stray voltage issue all parameters fine yada yada yada.
Like you they did fine in a different tank.

Things I did after talking with Matt and Jim.
1. A couple of 100+ gallon water changes (this was after the crash but in hind site I wish I'd done it earlier). It did stabilize what was left but I'd already lost most corals.
Decided then to add nothing new for 1 year so I don't know if it "cured" the problem or not. The remaining "zoas" are all palys or para/proto palys and I've had no problems with them.
Spent last year upgrading and stocking my 20 so I still haven't added anything to that tank.
2. Replaced 150+ pounds of 8+ year old live rock with new cooked fuji I got from jimsreef. Didn't make any difference.

What I'd try
1. Dose vit C daily at the recommended dose for infection not maintenance. Since you're trying it I assume you've followed the vitamin C thread.
2. If you haven't already throw a poly-filter in. I doubt it'll show anything but we're grasping at straws here.
3. A couple large water changes.


Questions
1. Does you alk swing from 10-12 or is it 11?
2. If a piece starts to melt will it turn around if you put it i the 75?
3. Your remaining colonies how many are palys vs. zoas?

Long winded reply to say I have no answer. :lol:
Honestly I'd say dosing Vit C regularly may be your best bet.
 
Thanks for the advice Amy.

I did a 100+ gallon change back in Nov. I swear it as if it is the water though. I am 100% sure the water in the 210g is much better from a quality standpoint than the 75g but as I may have mentioned in my disertation, I cut frags from 2 recent purchases that I dropped in my 75g just to have them melt away in my 210g. I did notice that when I get them from Phil's 210g they do better than his 125g, thinking that he also does not take such care of that tank - I was thinking acclimate better, but then again I have received zoos in the past in almost no water and they did fine.

I use a poly filter.
I think I am going to go with another huge water change.

As for the alk, I do not check it regularly I sort of use the PH to keep up with it. If the PH is in the 8.2 range from the lime, then the alkalinity is normally around 11 or 12 dKH.

I have not put anything in my 75g that started melting but my PPEs (3) were looking bad, sent them to Phil, they recovered, I reintroduced, now I have 7. So the answer to that may be yes, they can recover.

I have not seen as much of an issue with Palys but other than size I am not sure I could tell them apart, so not sure about the numbers.

I am going to up the VC as you mentioned. I know that is not the problem but it may be part of a solution. The person who always pushes it on the zoo forum also said that.

At this point if there were a $500 bag of pixie dust I could sprinkle in there I think I would.
 
I don't know how I posted twice 10 minutes apart. Guess the RC hamster was feeling faint. :lol:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14162753#post14162753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by package
At this point if there were a $500 bag of pixie dust I could sprinkle in there I think I would.
I'd go in halves. :D

I agree it's like something is in the water and it's something you can't test for.
That's why I asked if they would recover in another tank. fwiw I don't think the fact the other tank is less than "pefect" makes any difference just that whatever isn't in its water.

I think (hope) you're on the right track with a large water change and VC.
Let me know how the VC does. I plan to start it or at least have it on hand but still trying to find without having to order on the net.
 
I bought 100% pure powder from vitamin world in the mall. GNC also has. I think it is cheaper online. If you look on the zoo forum they gave me a link on my similar thread zoos going, going, gone.

When I used it, I perhaps used too much it slimed up my poly filter.

I am going to try again based on the recommend dose from the posting. Although lack of VC is not what caused the issue, it is something else.

I am going to take some photos and start dosing tonight.

I am still hoping someone else has an idea. Ron thought perhaps stray voltage. I did an experiment with unplugging my probe as opposed to removing the stray voltage source. Without the probe I was thinking it was a bird on a wire type situation - harmless without a ground, the latest zoos melted without the ground probe.
 
This goes with our... Mine and Ron with the Duncan's that I got. I gave Ron a colony and I kept a colony. I put mine in my 55g and Ron put the one I gave him in the 210? front display at the shop. they did great for a week in each tank then both just melted down and vanished in like 24 hours a day apart from each other.
 
zoos Thursday and Friday

zoos Thursday and Friday

Zoos on Thursday, they began the melt down on Wednesday. They had been fine for months.

IMG_1427.jpg


Same zoos tonight (Friday) after the second day of meltdown.

IMG_1446.jpg


Earlier in the week they were fine. Notice there is a small patch of them to the far right that were not connected, they also did not melt. I knew once it started, it would get them all.
 
zoos Thursday and Friday

zoos Thursday and Friday

Zoos on Thursday, they began the melt down on Wednesday. They had been fine for months.

IMG_1427.jpg


Same zoos tonight (Friday) after the second day of meltdown.

IMG_1446.jpg


Earlier in the week they were fine. Notice there is a small patch of them to the far right that were not connected, they also did not melt. I knew once it started, it would get them all.
 
Amy,
As you mentioned on the CVRC site or asked, it seems to be a zoo thing as opposed to a paly thing. I have not lost any additional since my last post but I have not introduced any new ones either. I moved some to my 75g and they are doing fine. I also moved a few to the sump with the macro algae and they are doing OK also. I began feeding more Nori, I am leaning toward a fish eating them although I expected ones that were eaten on to be sort of shredded looking, but I do not know, they looked as though they melted.

I just find it hard to believe it could be something in the water so I am thinking fish - but I have never seen one nip at anything and they only touch zoos.

Still do not know.
 
Yeah that was a shot in the dark though.
I just know all that's left in the big tank are palys or paly types. Then again I think you said you had problems with PPE? They are a paly/paly type polyp. :shrug:

My sailfin is a zoa nipper but usually only fresh colonies, figured thats because they often have some micro algae on them, or a few weak polyps. I've never seen her nip on a healthy looking colony though.
Maybe we're both wrong and they are being eaten in our tanks. Like you I'd expect it to look eaten and not melted looking though. When she did mess with something she often picked up the whole rock or if it was too big literally ripped lose pieces off the rock. Again that usually happened with new pieces that had a lot of detritus and gunk on them and I don't remember her actually completely destroying anything...may be wrong though.

FWIW most of mine looked like yours as they disappeared. I think you said on the zoa forum that they'll sometimes come back? Mine didn't do that.

At least you haven't lost anymore. Are you still dosing VC?

They're dam frustrating "easy to grow" corals that's for sure.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14560093#post14560093 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by package
Amy,
As you mentioned on the CVRC site or asked, it seems to be a zoo thing as opposed to a paly thing. I have not lost any additional since my last post but I have not introduced any new ones either. I moved some to my 75g and they are doing fine. I also moved a few to the sump with the macro algae and they are doing OK also. I began feeding more Nori, I am leaning toward a fish eating them although I expected ones that were eaten on to be sort of shredded looking, but I do not know, they looked as though they melted.

I just find it hard to believe it could be something in the water so I am thinking fish - but I have never seen one nip at anything and they only touch zoos.

Still do not know.
 
I stopped using the VC it slimes up the poly filter so bad that I am constantly needing to change it. Either way, I knew that a VC deficiency was not the problem, so it was unlikely to be the answer. I did have issues with the PPE, I am not sure but think that was different. As for the zoos coming back for sure - I moved two rocks that I got from Fujis to the 75g and they are popping up everywhere again. I also moved 2 rocks to the sump, they are coming back there also.

As for the fish - I am guessing, I am not buying anymore zoos for that tank though - which sucks. I think I am going to make it primarily LPS although - some zoos are fine (for now).
 
I could not remember the web site that Ron is now using but I knew it was in this thread, compliments of Mary, so I looked it up.

Just an update - I really never used the VC very long, it slimed things up so bad that I stopped using it. Still have 2.5 bottles of it. What I did do was started feeding Nori on clips a couple of times a week in addition to more flake feedings. I have lost no more zoos and have them coming back everywhere. Apparently one of the fish - flame angel, rabbit fish or 1 of 3 tangs was dining out off the expensive menu due to lack of available other options. The way they destroy hair algae or some macro algae when it pops up from the sump - I should have known.

At this time I have zoos coming back on nearly all of the rocks where they disappeared. Unfortunately I have moved, turned, lost some of them but there are a bunch popping up.
 
That is great to hear that you have figured it out. I have a blue line rabbit that will pick at mine if I don't feed nori everyday. Figured that out the hard way also.
 
I think I had 2 issues, the first some type of water chemistry which was likely related to ICK medications or PH swings. This accounted for a small number of deaths and included palys. I cleared that up and then it became a fish issue.

Assuming it was the scribbled rabbit fish (who I suspect), I picked up a macro algae on a piece of SPS once - calupra (sp?), dark green lettace looking that grew like crazy and would completely take over. I scrubbed rocks over and over, could not get rid of it.

I heard a rabbit fish would eat it but could not get my purple tang to allow one in the tank. Jim had a rather large one that finally made it through the PT harassment.
That rabbit fish completely destroyed it, mowed it down like nothing I had ever seen. I was so grateful that I kept the ugly guy afterwards, that and I sometimes moved rocks and found the stuff growing in cracks so I knew it could come back. I am thinking he and I are now even, he helped me out with the algae but shafted me by feasting on $100s in designer zoos.
 
Back
Top