'05 24g JBJ Nanocube Resurrection (I'm Back!)

[griss]

I can test my calcium tonight when I get home from work and let you know. I have a new to me Hanna Checker with new reagents, so we’ll see how that goes. Tonight is my weekly WC day. I typically do a 10% WC, but I’m thinking that I should increase the change to effectively cut the existing NO3 and the PO4. With that being said, maybe I should look at 40%-50%. I did just throw in a Tunze 9001 protein skimmer this week, so moving forward I should be able to cut out some of the accumulation of NO3 and PO4…in theory.

Speaking to the dosing for Alk, I’m kind of looking at the All For Reef product for dosing. I like the idea of dosing Kalk with my ATO, but I would be afraid of a potential failure.

Please post your Ca levels once you test, I'm curious what they are. I have a work function until late tonight and a busy weekend but, I'll try to review and respond as soon as possible.

On the water changes, I wouldn't increase too drastically. Maybe increase to a 20% change or just increase to two 10% changes a week.

I've not used All for Reef personally but, I've heard good things about it. I know @Reefing102 uses or used it at some point.

So I can go ahead and test the saltwater I’m using, but for full disclosure I’m not currently making my own. I’m purchasing both RO/DI topoff and Saltwater from my LFS. I could go head and ask them what they are using. The unfortunate situation is that I don’t yet own a RO/DI and haven’t yet decided on the best setup at home to cater to the needs of a 24gal nanocube. It’s hard to justify the purchase at this time when the demand of RO and saltwater is relatively small due to the size of the 24gal nano.


3.) All that said, take things slow and try to address one issue at a time. I've said it a million times over the years, nothing good happens fast in this hobby. Focus on one thing at a time. In your case, IMO, I would focus on getting the nitrate and phosphate down to acceptable levels. Once those are in check, let's work on your alkalinity and pH.

Sounds like a good plan to me! I’m hoping that new skimmer shines on cutting DOC prior to NO3 and PO4 build up.

That makes sense on the RODI to just buy from the LFS for a system of your size. I'd just test it next time you buy some to be sure they don't have a bad batch of salt. When/if you decide to get an RODI unit please post and we can make some recommendations.

 

[MNtadpole]

@griss
Please post your Ca levels once you test, I'm curious what they are. I have a work function until late tonight and a busy weekend but, I'll try to review and respond as soon as possible.

On the water changes, I wouldn't increase too drastically. Maybe increase to a 20% change or just increase to two 10% changes a week.

I've not used All for Reef personally but, I've heard good things about it. I know @Reefing102 uses or used it at some point.

I will take the Ca reading prior to the water change and post it tonight. Take your time on a response if you're busy..no worries. I was thinking that the 40-50% change would be a one time deal this time. I would typically only do 10-20% on a routine basis. Do you think the 40-50% one time change would be a bit too aggressive? I've notice my NO3 has been high since starting the tank and I've only done 10% changes every week.

That makes sense on the RODI to just buy from the LFS for a system of your size. I'd just test it next time you buy some to be sure they don't have a bad batch of salt. When/if you decide to get an RODI unit please post and we can make some recommendations.

I might have a mild case of PTSD from using RO/DI in the past...kind of a funny story. Back in '05 when I was last reefing, I made the poor choice to take a nap while filling a 5gal bucket of RO/DI in my parent's house. Long story short, I woke up to a flooded bathroom on the 3rd floor. The water leaked to the lower level and caused ceiling damage. LOL I recently purchased my first home and yeah...the memory is quite fresh, almost 20 years later.

 

[Reefing102]

I dose all for reef. I can’t say I have any complaints. I dose about 12ml every day on my 65. I buy the powdered mix and I see pretty good growth in my opinion.

 

[griss]

I will take the Ca reading prior to the water change and post it tonight. Take your time on a response if you're busy..no worries. I was thinking that the 40-50% change would be a one time deal this time. I would typically only do 10-20% on a routine basis. Do you think the 40-50% one time change would be a bit too aggressive? I've notice my NO3 has been high since starting the tank and I've only done 10% changes every week.

I might have a mild case of PTSD from using RO/DI in the past...kind of a funny story. Back in '05 when I was last reefing, I made the poor choice to take a nap while filling a 5gal bucket of RO/DI in my parent's house. Long story short, I woke up to a flooded bathroom on the 3rd floor. The water leaked to the lower level and caused ceiling damage. LOL I recently purchased my first home and yeah...the memory is quite fresh, almost 20 years later.

Ah, I misunderstood. Yes, Since you're early in the process, a one time larger water change should be okay. BUT, since you have livestock, especially inverts/coral, make sure your water parameters between the existing tank water and the change water match or are very close...especially salinity and temperature. You don't want to risk any damage.

Thanks for sharing the story about the RO. Kind of cracks me up because when we lived in our first apartment I nearly did something just like that. Had the RO hooked up in the bathroom, started making water, went to check on something and came back to find the bucket on the brink of overflowing. After moving into our first house and now our current house, I always have the RODI in the basement near the floor drain.

 

[MNtadpole]

man that was what I thought from the first time I saw that pic but I'm nowhere near as well versed as you guys. I have had 2 or 3 run ins with cyano now though and it no longer 'scares' me, but at very first inkling I attack.

So what worked for you concerning battling the cyano?

 

[MNtadpole]

@griss
Looks like the results are in with the Hanna Checker. 569 ppm Ca. Did the test a second time and I got 498 ppm Ca.

I might have had the usage of the .1 mL syringe a touch off in the first one. Lol, or maybe the Hanna Ca is hog wash.

So if what I’ve picked up is true, Ca and Alk are, when not balanced, inversely proportional. High Ca = Low Alk. Do I understand this correctly? If so, would that mean that if I were to bring the Alk to a higher level that I would lower the high measured Ca?

 

[griss]

Generally, Hanna checkers are pretty accurate. I’ve found if you get a lot of bubbles in the vial, it can through of results.

And, yes, you are correct in your question about .Ca and Alk. Increasing the Alk will cause the Ca to precipitate out thus, lowering it.

 

[MNtadpole]

Generally, Hanna checkers are pretty accurate. I’ve found if you get a lot of bubbles in the vial, it can through of results.

And, yes, you are correct in your question about .Ca and Alk. Increasing the Alk will cause the Ca to precipitate out thus, lowering it.

I know a lot of folks struggle with the accuracy of this checker. Apparently, it comes down to user error.

Im going to try out the steps in this YouTube video and see if I get lower results.

I used RO water in my test, but I guess CVS distilled is better for accuracy.

 

[Dustin07]

So what worked for you concerning battling the cyano?

I dosed, I think it was chemiclean that we used originally? In another tank I used Slime Out

 

[MNtadpole]

I dosed, I think it was chemiclean that we used originally? In another tank I used Slime Out

Well I'm hoping to go a more natural route, if I can. I just performed a 50% water change this weekend in hopes to drop my accumulated nitrates and phosphates. They were quite high which might be driving growth.

I took my ugly-phase issues to my LFS and they suggested that I should change the spectrum of my lighting to be exclusively blue, removing the whites/greens/reds. Idk how effective this suggestion will be, but I'm going to give it a try. I told them that my aquarium is about 2 months old, post first cycling.

I also added a AI Nero 3 to increase flow around the nano tank.

 

[Dustin07]

Well I'm hoping to go a more natural route, if I can.

that tends to be my preference as well, so I've done both, but had zero side effects from the dosing. Our first run in with cyano, I had no idea what it was and it took over the tank while I was gone on vacation. lost a couple corals to it. got to talking to the guy at the LFS and he sold me the chemiclean. within 24-48hrs we saw improvement. I believe instructions were a second dose within a week. Since then, I've never had a bad break out again since. When I started to see a little bit, we dosed it immediately, and it was never an issue.

 

[MNtadpole]

that tends to be my preference as well, so I've done both, but had zero side effects from the dosing. Our first run in with cyano, I had no idea what it was and it took over the tank while I was gone on vacation. lost a couple corals to it. got to talking to the guy at the LFS and he sold me the chemiclean. within 24-48hrs we saw improvement. I believe instructions were a second dose within a week. Since then, I've never had a bad break out again since. When I started to see a little bit, we dosed it immediately, and it was never an issue.

That's awesome that it worked well for you. It's tempting to just try and treat it, but I think since my aquarium is relatively new, it needs to try to mature naturally. How mature was your tank at the time? Was it the loss of the coral that made you decided to take the chemical approach? I do have a nice Frogspawn that I wouldn't want to lose to any of the nasties.

Was it the cyano covering the coral that made them go or something else related?

 

[Dustin07]

How mature was your tank at the time?

This was in my 10g upright a few years back, which was my first re-entry into SW after about 15 years off. It was around a year+ old at the time.

Was it the loss of the coral that made you decided to take the chemical approach?

This is a random picture I found off the internet, to try to explain how mine exploded so fast into basically like "sheets" of the cyano covering some corals like blankets by the time I saw it. I tried to manually remove as much as possible but it became a real head scratcher and I found myself doing a TON of extra cleaning.

I was at my LFS where the owner has been a reefer for more than 2 decades and I have had some great advice from him in the past. He normally has an incredibly simple approach to his corals in his shop and he recommended the dosing just as simply as I might recommend my wife take some vitamin C this morning if she feels a cold coming on. He had zero concerns about it, so I gave it a try!

I do have a nice Frogspawn that I wouldn't want to lose to any of the nasties.

My frogspawn was one of my corals that I still have and wasn't hurt at all. although he's a totally different story today because while he does have 5 heads now, I think he is growing waaaaay too slow these days... different topic though, lol

Was it the cyano covering the coral that made them go or something else related?

Yes I believe so. it really reaked havoc on the tank. There are things I have done differently since then!

a. I'm faster to dip corals that look in trouble with revive.
b. I do a lot more water changes. I used to be in the "not necessary camp" but now I like to do changes 2-4 times per month. (10%)
c. I have also changed my lighting situation a bit, same lights, different program, to help combat algaes of all sorts.
d. I have integrated phosguard into my filtration. (its basically the only filtration I use, my tank is actually 99% natural with no sump or skimmer)
e. I have removed troublesome rocks, placed in a bowl of revive, and manually scrubbed as carefully as possible when an outbreak looks worse than I can contain
f. I have also gone as far as to frag troublesome corals that look bad, such as zoas at first sight of melt. to remove the sick ones from the healthy ones, dip them, and then replace them back to the tank. this has in my opinion saved more than one colony of zoas in my tank.

 

[MNtadpole]

This was in my 10g upright a few years back, which was my first re-entry into SW after about 15 years off. It was around a year+ old at the time.



This is a random picture I found off the internet, to try to explain how mine exploded so fast into basically like "sheets" of the cyano covering some corals like blankets by the time I saw it. I tried to manually remove as much as possible but it became a real head scratcher and I found myself doing a TON of extra cleaning.

I was at my LFS where the owner has been a reefer for more than 2 decades and I have had some great advice from him in the past. He normally has an incredibly simple approach to his corals in his shop and he recommended the dosing just as simply as I might recommend my wife take some vitamin C this morning if she feels a cold coming on. He had zero concerns about it, so I gave it a try!

View attachment 32406082



My frogspawn was one of my corals that I still have and wasn't hurt at all. although he's a totally different story today because while he does have 5 heads now, I think he is growing waaaaay too slow these days... different topic though, lol



Yes I believe so. it really reaked havoc on the tank. There are things I have done differently since then!

a. I'm faster to dip corals that look in trouble with revive.
b. I do a lot more water changes. I used to be in the "not necessary camp" but now I like to do changes 2-4 times per month. (10%)
c. I have also changed my lighting situation a bit, same lights, different program, to help combat algaes of all sorts.
d. I have integrated phosguard into my filtration. (its basically the only filtration I use, my tank is actually 99% natural with no sump or skimmer)
e. I have removed troublesome rocks, placed in a bowl of revive, and manually scrubbed as carefully as possible when an outbreak looks worse than I can contain
f. I have also gone as far as to frag troublesome corals that look bad, such as zoas at first sight of melt. to remove the sick ones from the healthy ones, dip them, and then replace them back to the tank. this has in my opinion saved more than one colony of zoas in my tank.

 

[MNtadpole]

.

 

[MNtadpole]

This was in my 10g upright a few years back, which was my first re-entry into SW after about 15 years off. It was around a year+ old at the time.



This is a random picture I found off the internet, to try to explain how mine exploded so fast into basically like "sheets" of the cyano covering some corals like blankets by the time I saw it. I tried to manually remove as much as possible but it became a real head scratcher and I found myself doing a TON of extra cleaning.

I was at my LFS where the owner has been a reefer for more than 2 decades and I have had some great advice from him in the past. He normally has an incredibly simple approach to his corals in his shop and he recommended the dosing just as simply as I might recommend my wife take some vitamin C this morning if she feels a cold coming on. He had zero concerns about it, so I gave it a try!

View attachment 32406082



My frogspawn was one of my corals that I still have and wasn't hurt at all. although he's a totally different story today because while he does have 5 heads now, I think he is growing waaaaay too slow these days... different topic though, lol



Yes I believe so. it really reaked havoc on the tank. There are things I have done differently since then!

a. I'm faster to dip corals that look in trouble with revive.
b. I do a lot more water changes. I used to be in the "not necessary camp" but now I like to do changes 2-4 times per month. (10%)
c. I have also changed my lighting situation a bit, same lights, different program, to help combat algaes of all sorts.
d. I have integrated phosguard into my filtration. (its basically the only filtration I use, my tank is actually 99% natural with no sump or skimmer)
e. I have removed troublesome rocks, placed in a bowl of revive, and manually scrubbed as carefully as possible when an outbreak looks worse than I can contain
f. I have also gone as far as to frag troublesome corals that look bad, such as zoas at first sight of melt. to remove the sick ones from the healthy ones, dip them, and then replace them back to the tank. this has in my opinion saved more than one colony of zoas in my tank.

Those are all valid points and techniques.

After shifting the lighting spectrum to exclusively the blues, I have noticed a slowing of the ugly's growth (brown cyano or diatom and green hair algae).

I'm really hoping that the Tunze 9001 protein skimmer strips a good amount of the DOC out before they breakdown to nitrates and phosphates. After my 50% WC this weekend, my levels went from 20ppm nitrate and .21ppm phosphates to 5ppm nitrates and .13ppm phosphates. I'd be curious to see how the levels stay over the course of 1 week.

I think the next area I should focus on is my aquarium feeding routine. Up to this point, I have been feeding small portions of frozen mysis and brine 3 times every day. My 2 Picaso Clowns and the Yellow Watchman Goby don't leave any uneaten bits over. I'd be curious to know if I could switch to twice-a-day feedings every other day. My only worry is that my Goby has a hard time competing for food against the 2 clowns. The clowns are total hogs! My question is if there is a difference between "over feeding" vs frequent feedings, concerning the accumulation of nitrates and phosphates? I get that more food = more poop, but in the same token, uneaten foods are undigested wastes. It would seem to me that latter would be worse in the accumulation.

 

[Dustin07]

After shifting the lighting spectrum to exclusively the blues, I have noticed a slowing of the ugly's growth (brown cyano or diatom and green hair algae).

'm really hoping that the Tunze 9001 protein skimmer strips a good amount of the DOC out before they breakdown to nitrates and phosphates.

I'm the same way, the light setting I have my tank on right now is much darker and bluer but makes the corals pop amazingly. I had not used this setting in the past because it seemed too dark, but I think I have grown the tank so much that I have enough bright corals responding to the blue light that it's truly a great color.

I think the next area I should focus on is my aquarium feeding routine. Up to this point, I have been feeding small portions of frozen mysis and brine 3 times every day. My 2 Picaso Clowns and the Yellow Watchman Goby don't leave any uneaten bits over.

The clowns are total hogs! My question is if there is a difference between "over feeding" vs frequent feedings, concerning the accumulation of nitrates and phosphates?

so building off your entire post, the only time I see build up in my tank (i'm seeing a little now) is when I go back to feeding reef roids. It seems like I can feed an unlimited amount of frozen blood worms, or brineshrimp (live or frozen) or pellets with zero negatives. what the fish don't eat (rare) goes to the snails, crabs, shrimp, and sometimes BTA.

I wonder if a skimmer would help me to feed the tank more without the excess nutrient issue I'm having. Yesterday I did a small phyto dose for the first time ever to see what would happen.

 

[MNtadpole]

14OCT2024 Check-In,

It has been awhile, so here's a length update...lol.

New equipment added:
-Hydros XP8 - controlled power strip.
-Avast Marine The Plank auto feeder (in the mail still).


Added Animals:
-Clove Polyp (medium size colony)
-Zoanthid (small frag)

The fight continues to find an equilibrium of nutrient import and export. I'm still knee deep in algae uglies (diatom and GHA). I'm frequently manually cleaning the tank of any buildup of these during my weekly WC. Even with weekly changes my phosphates continue to climb while my nitrate remains decent (5.0 ppm). I'm addressing this issue as my primary focus as much as I can. Last Thursday, while doing my weekly parameter testing, I witnessed my phosphates reach an all time high (.21 ppm as measured from Hanna ULR). I quickly followed up with a routine 25% WC, which brought me down to .17 ppm on phosphates. I've also started experimenting with Seachem's PhosGuard product. I added a conservative half-dose for a three-day period which helped to bump the aquarium down to about .11 ppm of phosphate. I also had to decrease my fish feedings to once a day, due to work requirements during that period (contributed to lower nutrients I’m sure too).

Unfortunately, I have also been struggling to keep my favorite bi-color frogspawn happy. About two weeks ago it started to deflate and shrink. All my parameters appeared to be to be where I wanted them, with the obvious exception of the phosphates. I took some forum advice to decrease light intensity down by about 15% and maintained some added WCs. The frogspawn seemed to respond well to the WC and the decrease in light intensity. I was able to see its limp tentacles get re-inflated, though not to the large size it was previously. I thought I was headed in the right direction, but yesterday it appears that the frogspawn has returned to a limp state. It's quite frustrating to see my favorite coral doing so poorly.

Witnessing this return to a poor state of the Frogspawn yesterday evening, I decided to take a more of a "proactive" approach to the phosphates with PhosphateRX. I removed the Phosguard and carbon from my media trays and dosed 1 drop (half-dose) into my filter floss. I added a 5-micron filter pad to hopefully grab any flocculant that was created. Interestingly enough, after the initial dosing of the PhosphateRX I did not witness any clouding of the water, which I was expecting as per the instructions. I supposed that's not a bad thing. I didn't note any stress signs of the animals this morning, though the frogspawn looked pretty much the same (not good). I'm going to be retesting my phosphates tonight to see what the half-dose did to the levels.

Against best judgement, I also returned the aquarium to my “full spectrum” settings, adding the 50% acclimation mode. I know I’m likely messing with too much at once, but something told me that I should reintroduce more spectrum, not just sitting in the blues. I’m trying to stay positive on possible recovery for the Frogspawn, but that waning.

On a more positive note, I did recently purchase a Hydros XP-8 which will go to control an Avast Marine Plank feeder. My first taste of the Hydros ecosystem has been quite positive – really neat stuff! I’m hoping that the Plank feeder will provide me a little feed freedom and better consistency to adding foods to the tank. I’m also hoping that shifting a majority of feedings to freeze-dried will slow down phosphate build-up. I’ve read that some frozen food manufacturers claim there aren’t added phosphates, but I’m sure there are suspended nutrients between the large chucks of mysis and brine.

 

[Dustin07]

what does the Hydros XP-8 do? I googled it and to be honest I still didn't understand it
I'd love to see an updated picture of your frogspawn.

Mine was growing like crazy. at least 5 heads, and two look like they're splitting again. Then it started shrinking and never seemed all the way happy anymore. I finally decided it was a lack of flow, so I moved it to my nano tank directly under the flow. that puffed it up a lot for a little while.

I later realized, it was unhappy because it and my bubble coral had grown into each other. when I pulled him, my bubble nearly doubled in size!

anyways after a week or two in the nano, I felt like the froggy wasn't so impressed witth his new digs. So yet again, I moved him, and a torch around in my DT. I've been hanging around the euphylia group on FB and decided he needed more flow. so he has his own ledge now, in my DT with water I think he prefers, directly next to the power head and he's finally looking like his fully fluffed up self again.

 

[MNtadpole]

what does the Hydros XP-8 do? I googled it and to be honest I still didn't understand it
I'd love to see an updated picture of your frogspawn.

Mine was growing like crazy. at least 5 heads, and two look like they're splitting again. Then it started shrinking and never seemed all the way happy anymore. I finally decided it was a lack of flow, so I moved it to my nano tank directly under the flow. that puffed it up a lot for a little while.

I later realized, it was unhappy because it and my bubble coral had grown into each other. when I pulled him, my bubble nearly doubled in size!

anyways after a week or two in the nano, I felt like the froggy wasn't so impressed witth his new digs. So yet again, I moved him, and a torch around in my DT. I've been hanging around the euphylia group on FB and decided he needed more flow. so he has his own ledge now, in my DT with water I think he prefers, directly next to the power head and he's finally looking like his fully fluffed up self again.

The Hydros XP8 is a stand-alone programable 8 socket power outlet controller. It is WiFi controlled, but not WiFi dependent. This means that it will continue to run designated programming even if WiFi goes down. It also actively monitors power for all assigned power outlets, meaning that if a device is pulling too much current or none at all, the device will send out an alert. This device like most Hydros products interfaces with the Hydros App (mobile) or web application (computer) to change settings and receive notifications. My main purpose of this was two-fold: 1.) I wanted to be able to accurately control an Avast Marine Plank auto-feeder 2.) I wanted to be able to, with one click action, deactivate my tank equipment from power for maintenance. I've made a few errors during maintenance where I forget to turn off the ATO or forget to plug my heater back in...

As far as the frogspawn is concerned, the only thing that I can put a finger on, parameter wise, is higher than suggested phosphate levels. The coral started to show stress levels when I measured .13 ppm of phosphates. The tank went as high as .21 ppm before I was able to do something beyond a WC. I've tried Seachem's Phosguard, which I think I will use to maintain my levels moving forward. I've most recently dosed PhosphateRx (lanthium chloride) to the tank, to try and get my levels under .1 ppm little quicker. Last Sunday I performed a half-dose and it took the aquarium from a measured .17 to around .12. Monday night I tried adding a full dose. I'll be checking the phosphates this evening. I'll post my current phosphate levels and take a picture of the frogspawn.