1,000 GPH
- Thread starter SSalty
- Start date
I'll agree that it's debatable
I think it's a poor, poor way to set up a tank for anyone with less than a few years and/or tank experience. I feel it looses efficiency and adds additional maintenance to the tank. Is it possible to do it... sure... Is it the best approach? Not in my experience.
I think that increasing the flow through a sump should be a case by case decision when certain equipment needs and goals warrant it.
I'm not trying to completely disagree, nor be argumentative. Considering the number of people on the board with minimal experience, I feel that both sides need to be heard so that others don't imitate and spread the high-flow sump idea and then have problems, and eventually quit the hobby due to the headaches that can be associated with setting up a tank in a manner that is contrary to the easiest, most efficient way to do it
Again it's my opinion based on experience and years of research(playing around to be more precise)...
I think it's a poor, poor way to set up a tank for anyone with less than a few years and/or tank experience. I feel it looses efficiency and adds additional maintenance to the tank. Is it possible to do it... sure... Is it the best approach? Not in my experience.I think that increasing the flow through a sump should be a case by case decision when certain equipment needs and goals warrant it.
I'm not trying to completely disagree, nor be argumentative. Considering the number of people on the board with minimal experience, I feel that both sides need to be heard so that others don't imitate and spread the high-flow sump idea and then have problems, and eventually quit the hobby due to the headaches that can be associated with setting up a tank in a manner that is contrary to the easiest, most efficient way to do it
Again it's my opinion based on experience and years of research(playing around to be more precise)...
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That's all understood but did you google his pump?
I know these are Gen-x knockoffs so I looked for their specs.
Couldn't find a flow chart, I'd be surprised if they were worth the time to step through. His pump falls between:
You really think his pump is pushing more than 500-600 GPH?
And that is so much flow he's going to have problems and quit the hobby?
SSalty, if it's bothering you that much, go get a lower rated pump.
I know these are Gen-x knockoffs so I looked for their specs.
Couldn't find a flow chart, I'd be surprised if they were worth the time to step through. His pump falls between:
You really think his pump is pushing more than 500-600 GPH?
And that is so much flow he's going to have problems and quit the hobby?
SSalty, if it's bothering you that much, go get a lower rated pump.
You've been on the boards for a few years... How many "I'm quitting" threads have you read or "bubbles everywhere" threads. Where people are frustrated based on various tips, suggestions and misinformation threads they read... It was a largely generalized post, but the intention was correct
As far as the flow rate, that is what I alluded to on the post yesterday when you made mention between the 4 and 6 foot difference. Looking at the headloss on a basic gen-x design, the difference between 4 and 6 feet is about 140gph. Or 800is gph and 660ish gph. Is that a ground breaking number? No, but it is 3X the additional tank volume per hour. Or more turn over through the 20 gallon sump and adds to the inefficiency of the skimmer and design
As far as the flow rate, that is what I alluded to on the post yesterday when you made mention between the 4 and 6 foot difference. Looking at the headloss on a basic gen-x design, the difference between 4 and 6 feet is about 140gph. Or 800is gph and 660ish gph. Is that a ground breaking number? No, but it is 3X the additional tank volume per hour. Or more turn over through the 20 gallon sump and adds to the inefficiency of the skimmer and design
but look at the rest of his system....
he has at least one 90 elbow, and two splits of loc-line at 1/2" ID.
His piping is 3/4" (you can see that on the elbow).
That's why I used 6ft instead of 4ft.
How are you figuring that he only has 4ft of head loss? It might even be more than 6ft depending on what's going on under the water that we can't see.
I couldn't find the flow charts for those pumps.
How did you figure that the difference between 4ft and 6ft head loss on that pump is 140gph?
EDIT: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php
he has at least one 90 elbow, and two splits of loc-line at 1/2" ID.
His piping is 3/4" (you can see that on the elbow).
That's why I used 6ft instead of 4ft.
How are you figuring that he only has 4ft of head loss? It might even be more than 6ft depending on what's going on under the water that we can't see.
I couldn't find the flow charts for those pumps.
How did you figure that the difference between 4ft and 6ft head loss on that pump is 140gph?
EDIT: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php
Jacob D
New member
Salty:
Your pump is probably a little larger than needed. Without seeing the pump curve (which by the way, AquaEuroUSA doesn't publish) and knowing all the specifics about your plumbing it's impossible to know how many GPH it's actually pumping.
The above could (most likely) be contributing to the bubble problem. I would also take the pump apart and clean it to make sure nothing is plugging it up.
Lastly, and this is IMO - I don't like AquaEuroUSA pumps. Judging from all the issues with their skimmer pumps they're not very good for use in saltwater. The fact that your's is a "pond" pump may be a red flag. And why the heck don't they publish a pump curve?!?
Your pump is probably a little larger than needed. Without seeing the pump curve (which by the way, AquaEuroUSA doesn't publish) and knowing all the specifics about your plumbing it's impossible to know how many GPH it's actually pumping.
The above could (most likely) be contributing to the bubble problem. I would also take the pump apart and clean it to make sure nothing is plugging it up.
Lastly, and this is IMO - I don't like AquaEuroUSA pumps. Judging from all the issues with their skimmer pumps they're not very good for use in saltwater. The fact that your's is a "pond" pump may be a red flag. And why the heck don't they publish a pump curve?!?
I looked on the box of one of my gen-x pumps
I'm not trying to make this a big flow or whos right or wrong debate. Just make sure that both sides of the arguement are heard for ssalty Ulitimately he needs to decide based on good information from both sides of the arguement
I'm not trying to make this a big flow or whos right or wrong debate. Just make sure that both sides of the arguement are heard for ssalty
Ulitimately he needs to decide based on good information from both sides of the arguement<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10159964#post10159964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hop
I looked on the box of one of my gen-x pumps
I'm not trying to make this a big flow or whos right or wrong debate. Just make sure that both sides of the arguement are heard for ssalty
Totally agree, Hop
I was curious about where you getting the numbers, not challenging you
Although, I'd be surprised if their entire line of pumps had the same curves, I guess it's possible and the best we've got to go on.Actually, SSalty, post the figures from your pump's box.
Hop and mothra, you can see a good amount of his plumbing in the picture with the elbow in it. That 3/4" mark tells us his piping and his loc line size. Look at all that reduction and there's no way he's only got 4ft of head loss unless his stand is only 8 inches tall
Let's see: a typical stand is around 30"?
and a 55 gallon tank is 24" high?
add another foot head pressure for at least one elbow
another foot pressure for the 3/4" plumbing and can we add more for the loc line?
We're at 6+ head and climbing...probably around 500ish flow?
(which admittedly is too much for your tastes, I know
)At least with this part we can figure that he needs a pump with around 250ish @ 6ft head to get at 3-5x turnover rate?
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php
EDIT: WOW!
I figured 5ft of vertical, 1ft of horizontal, 3/4" plumbing, one union, one elbow, and two outputs...11ft of head! I didn't even think it would be that high...hopefully you agree that it's better to be on the high estimate side than the low? If anything, it's between 10-11ft, not much more off than that. WHAT? I don't know why the calculator changes head pressure calculations for each pump? That doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't make any difference what kind of pump you use, head pressure is head pressure...unless I'm misunderstanding how to use that calculator.
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Jacob D
New member
sm:
First off, I don't completely trust that calculator.
That said, the frictional losses through the fittings are dependent upon velocity. Less flow = less pressure drop, therefore the calculator iterates until the difference between what the pressure drop should be at a given flow and what a given flow at the pressure drop is basically 0.
First off, I don't completely trust that calculator.
That said, the frictional losses through the fittings are dependent upon velocity. Less flow = less pressure drop, therefore the calculator iterates until the difference between what the pressure drop should be at a given flow and what a given flow at the pressure drop is basically 0.
I don't trust the calculator anymore. It's good for estimates, but when I set up my big tank the first time it was 1500gph off... I didn't beleive it either until I filled a 5 gallon bucket at the end of the run and did the math. I even used a tape measure and rounded up on everything for the calculator.
SSalty
New member
I really do appreciate all of the trouble you guys are going through to check out the pumps capabilities and offer your opinions.
Heres the deal: If you have seen my other post about the rust, this only gives me more of a reason to change pumps. There is rust coming out from inside the pump (quite a bit)........ Which I honestly just found by checking the specs that are printed on the pump.
So I will be getting a new pump for sure....
I have been in the SW hobby for a little of 5 months and I have experience LOTS of problems and if I haven't bailed out yet I don't think I will ever. I KNOW that I will be rewarded with patience and YES a good amount of money. I look at all of these "problems" as a learning experience and someday I am sure I can help somone else out that may encounter these same problems.
I thank you guys again
Heres the deal: If you have seen my other post about the rust, this only gives me more of a reason to change pumps. There is rust coming out from inside the pump (quite a bit)........ Which I honestly just found by checking the specs that are printed on the pump.
So I will be getting a new pump for sure....
I have been in the SW hobby for a little of 5 months and I have experience LOTS of problems and if I haven't bailed out yet I don't think I will ever. I KNOW that I will be rewarded with patience and YES a good amount of money. I look at all of these "problems" as a learning experience and someday I am sure I can help somone else out that may encounter these same problems.
I thank you guys again
Jacob D
New member
Salty:
Don't give up. A lot of people recently bought those skimmers/pumps and have not been happy, nobody could have known what would happen.
Lesson learned on this one, do your research before you buy the next one. 90% of the time RC is a better place to ask advice than a fish store, or if you have a local reef club better yet (join it). Spending a little more up front usually saves you from having to buy twice, so do your homework for the next pump and get a good one. Once it's up and running smoothly you'll know it was money well spent.
Eheim, Iwaki, Posideon, and Tunze all make quality products, to name a few.
Don't give up. A lot of people recently bought those skimmers/pumps and have not been happy, nobody could have known what would happen.
Lesson learned on this one, do your research before you buy the next one. 90% of the time RC is a better place to ask advice than a fish store, or if you have a local reef club better yet (join it). Spending a little more up front usually saves you from having to buy twice, so do your homework for the next pump and get a good one. Once it's up and running smoothly you'll know it was money well spent.
Eheim, Iwaki, Posideon, and Tunze all make quality products, to name a few.
SSalty
New member
Thanks for the words of encouragment......
What should I do in the meen time until I find a new pump?. I am really worried about the rust coming out. Should I take it out now and just run powerheads in the main tank. I only have 2 clowns, a clown goby, and a shrimp also, 70 lbs of liverock. Would I be fine without a filter for awhile?
What should I do in the meen time until I find a new pump?. I am really worried about the rust coming out. Should I take it out now and just run powerheads in the main tank. I only have 2 clowns, a clown goby, and a shrimp also, 70 lbs of liverock. Would I be fine without a filter for awhile?
Yes, you'll be fine without using your skimmer.
You can either use the pump from your skimmer or just shut the flow off and use powerheads to keep your tank circulated.
If you call aquaeuroUSA they should replace your pump fairly quickly as they just received their shipment.
You can either use the pump from your skimmer or just shut the flow off and use powerheads to keep your tank circulated.
If you call aquaeuroUSA they should replace your pump fairly quickly as they just received their shipment.
That's your choice, just keep in mind that the reason it happened is because the pump manufacturer didn't epoxy the exposed metal parts. They contacted the manufacturer and the new pumps are epoxied so there isn't a chance it will happen again.
I don't know how much you spent on the pump, but those are around $40 and the pumps we've been talking about are ~$150+ (for comparison, the volute *alone* on my GRI 510 was $65! :O). You could try the used forums and go from there...maybe something like a mag pump you could pick up from someone used for not too much money.
I don't know how much you spent on the pump, but those are around $40 and the pumps we've been talking about are ~$150+ (for comparison, the volute *alone* on my GRI 510 was $65! :O). You could try the used forums and go from there...maybe something like a mag pump you could pick up from someone used for not too much money.
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