10g nano and cardnials

F

first-chevalier

New member
I am new to the hobby and starting up a 10g nano based on a thread from the new to the hobby forum. I've spotted some Bangoii Cardinals at my LFS which are really small and, I think, would look good in the tank I have envisioned. My question is, as a noob to this whole affair, would two of these little fish do well in a 10g live rock tank with perhaps a sixline wrasse and corrals?
 
Nope, two of them at a bare minimum need about a 15g tank. I wouldn't stick em in a 10g. Further more, two of them and a wrasse, nope. I have many bangaii's and right now I have my breeding pair housed in a 20g long. Personlly, I think even that's a tad small, I'll be upgrading them to a full 29g soon. Also, if you want Bangaii's, please try to make sure you can find captive raised and bred specimens. Bangaii's only come from one itty bitty spot in the world and run the risk of overcollection easily. Plus the captive bred and raised are much hardier in the long run.
Once full size, they will get upwards of 4" apiece.

that being said, some will say it's going to be fine, I've got different views since I breed em and raise em and there my favorite fish. But if you do want any other fish in there with em, than it will be too small of a tank. Keep in mind that they can open their mouths pretty wide and if they can fit a fish in it, they will. Carnivorous. Oh, and make darn sure that the LFS feeds them right in front of you. If they do not eat, do not buy them! They can be difficult to ween on prepared foods at times. Hit or miss as with most fish, but my wild caught pair still won't touch anything but frozen mysis.
 
Okay, I'm learning here, but I really like the look of these little guys. Having said that would it be possible to put one cardinal with a another fish (insert type here)? If not I'll have to wait until my 29g is ready, assuming I can keep the 10g up and running.

Oh, thanks for the tip about making the LFS feed them while I watch. should I expect them to tell me that's a problem?

The LFS I'm visiting right now and like a lot are telling me theirs were wild-caught adn taht for some reason all the tank raised have 'dried up'. They did tell me the tank raised are or have been very hardy and teh wild caught not so much. Thanks for your help by the way.
 
Agreed this is not a good choice. Also as a self admitted noob you should know that wild caught bangers are not an easy "first fish" as pointed out, they have an apallingingly low survival rate. Anything you even consider for that tank should have a very small adult size, remember that fish grow :D Maybe a pair of Percula clowns would please you?
 
FWIW, a 29g is going to be alot easier to maintain than a 10g. May wanna consider just going ahead and doing up the larger tank you have for a display and save taht 10g for a QT tank. You will want to start QTing any new fish purchases.

As for the fish store feeding them. If they do not eat when fed, and the fish store tells you anything other than what I just did, question their honesty and knowledge. Don't buy that "he just ate a little while ago" crap. Tell them you'll come back the next day and want to see them eat first.

As for just having one, would probably be okay, but not the happiest fish. They live in large groups in the wild, until the pair off, then it's jus the two until the deed is done, then they congregate again.

I find it hard to believe that all the tank raised and bred cardinals have just "dried up". They are, in my opinion and many others, the easiest of all marine fish to breed. (as far as ornatmental fish in the trade go). My wild caught pair was breeding two weeks after putting them in my tank. And have since spawned 6 times and I have had 3 batches released. (their mouthbrooders). I know it seems like low survivability, must most deaths were either by other fish eating the young, or my own newbie stupidity. Morso the latter of the two.

I love that you are interested in these fish and would hate for you to pick something else. Please read through this information, it's my bangaii breeding log, lot's of nice pictures and information for those interested in keeping Bangaii's.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=969634
 
Think of it this way...

Would you want to live in a cardboard box, or a mansion?

I would try and go as BIG as possible, give your fish a nice mansion to live in! I had one PJ cardinal in a 29gal and thought as he grew that he needed something bigger, so I bought a 75 gal. Since he moved into that, he's been so much more happy! Comes out all the time and is just a happy little guy.

I did the 10gal with a clown and it was just too small. I think you will find the same.
 
I have herd and appreciate the bigger is easier idea. However, My daughter and I (she's five) are getting into this together. The concept of SW tanks is fascinating to me and I like the idea of putting little fish in a little tank to make it look bigger (if that makes any sense). The only specimens I've seen of these are itty bitty so they seemed, adn I was told they were, perfect for my plan.

As far as my tank is concerned the 10g is a DIY thread from Travis in the New to.... forum. I have a best friend who has been doing this for a long time who's also mentoring me on this so I'm not learning alone. My goal in teh DIY 10g is to do it on a lower budget and see if I can keep things alive or turn them into nutrient. If I can keep my 10g alive the larger tank should be simpler. PLUS, I should be moving in a year or less and don't want a great big tank to have to tear down just when it's starting to roll.

I am open to any fish suggestions (smaller the better) or other suggestions, but the only thing I've received approval for at this time is the 10g, so I have to work with what I've been given.

I like the idea of breeding these guys too. If my LFS can't find a good captive bred supply, maybe I have a market......
 
A Pair of GREEN BANDED GOBIES and a pair of NEON GOBIES!!! ;) Heck, you could probably throw in a pair of RED HEADS or something else too...GOBIES are the KING of small tanks!

Matt
 
There are definatly other fish besides gobies that are small enough, but they are some of the prettier fish available in the trade for small nano's. After reading your post about having help with the tank and following Travis's Thread, I think you'll do just fine with the project. Travis thread is a very well done layout of how to go about starting a new saltwater system, and he knows his stuff. He has a couple of small 2g cubes that he uses just for decorative shrimp, a halequin and a mantis shrimp tank. Awesome. I built my refugium after watching him do one up. My tank has only gotten better since adding it to the system. In fact, my tank went from an algae farm, ugly and green, to a beautiful reef tank with no algae, in almost a week after adding the fuge.

And your 100% correct, if you can pull off a 10g nano tank, then anything bigger in the future is going to seem alot easier, lol.
 
My goal ... is to do it on a lower budget
Click to expand...

Well that is often the goal, just be warned that in life it's usually true that you "get what you pay for". Cutting corners on reef tanks does not usually result in great success. Certainly there are exceptions but these are typically experienced by "advanced" hobbyists. Best of luck, a small tank like that is going to be a challenge and doing it "on the cheap" only makes it moreso ;)
 
Your point is well taken, so let me clarrify a bit. I have more time than money at this point. The 'doing it on the cheap' is probably a misnomer. I'm willing to invest the time it takes to DIY as much as I can with certain exceptions. Example, lights. I'm willing to wire and create my own lights for about $40 or $50 rather than spend $300 on a comercial light. Having said that I'm gleaning as much data from RC on these subjects as I can so I can do it right and give myself and my tank the best chance for success (hence all the questions and annoyances from the new guy :) ).

I'm meeting with my best friend in less than an hour to get a box full of stuff he isn't using (heaters, acrylic solvent, pumps, powerheads, testing kits, etc) so I can have some decent gear to work with as well. I'm VERY pumped about this whole thing and want to succeed so am constantly having to back myself down and slow things up (plus having to put on a five year olds birthday this weekend is forcing me to slow down on this project).

I'm not trying to through a tank on a table, pour in some tap and table sat, then dump fish and rock in hoping it will be good. I'm really trying to do my due dillignece and reading so I can make informed wise decisions. I just always seem to head down the wrong avenues for what I'm trying to do. Really cool avenues, but just not appropriate for where I am and what I'm trying to do at this stage. That's not stopping me from continuing to glean info (especially on this topic because eventually I believe I'm going to have a breeding setup for these little guys especially after reading through Papa's breeding thread).

There I've rambled on long enough....
 
Revised fish idea - get yourself a pair of Yashia Hase Gobies and see if you can get those to breed!

Hands down extremely pretty fish.

Matt
 
I can't find teh Yashia Hase Gobie listed anywhere. I can find the purple firefish though. That one looks great, or the flame gobie. Does this tank have room for two or four fish of this type/size? I realize I'm highly limited but is there an optionf or variety here? if not, maybe I should go for some of the shrimp gobies. Do they have shrimp that are supposed to be in a symbiotic relationship of some type?
 
Okay, you sold me on the whiteray/pistol shrimp idea. Done.

Now I have to figure out the diameter of the pvc pipe I need to get and burry per the article suggestion, and choose a suitable substrate.

I was just going to get live sand and do a two inch sand bed in my 10g. Now I think I'm going to have to up that to three inchs or four. But I'm not sure traditional live sand is going to work as the article seems to indicate those tunnels collapse. Given this forum is for cardinals I'll ask this last question on this OTC and then move back to cardnials (if I have any more questions there).

What are your suggestions for substrate choices to support the whiteray/shrimp burrow? Thanks.
 
LOL, actually this forum is for the breeding of any fish, not just Bangaii Cardinals - just so happens that Frank (our Mod) is the Bangaii Cardinal guru. Most people here are actually breeding clownfish. The Yashia gobies haven't been raised before, but someone else on this forum had the S. nematodes spawning..you'd have to get on the search function to track down that thread.

FWIW,

Matt
 
I used the link but didn't see a breeding pair. Anyway, when I found their entry for the Yashia Hase it listed the minimum tank size as 30g, LOL. I'm still only working with a 10g tank size. And, at the price of these nice little guys (I didn't realize the cost when I found them first) I'm not going to risk them as my first fish.

I am very grateful for all the advice I've received on this thread, but I don't believe I'm ready to step up to the breeding level yet. I don't have the experience, tank space, or wifely approval for that endeavor yet. HOWEVER, I really like the idea so will be reading up on this for a later date.

Thanks a lot guys (unless you've got a successful breeding suggestion for a 10g nano?......)
 
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