180 build from scratch!

[michika]

I think my Ozonizer isn't coming. The seller stopped responding to my email requests for the tracking number, and have I since progressed onto requesting dispute resolution from my credit card. I think the package never shipped out, so I will have to start looking for one elsewhere.

I guess this is probably a good time to confirm I've ordered the proper size unit for my system. Originally I had ordered the Red Sea Aquazone Deluxe Ozonizer (w/ ORP Controller & Probe) - 100 mg/hr. It says its rated for 200g, however just like skimmer ratings, I always question them. The next step up is 200mg/hr which is rated at 400g.

 

[michika]

Just got confirmation that our RKE shipped today. It was in Wisconsin early this afternoon.

 

[michika]

Quick Update
- RKE is still in Wisconsin
- Ozonizer is at Customs in B.C.
- SPS order to arrive on Monday, or Tuesday
- The Kalk. top-off did fail as I expected. I turned it on and forgot about it. Oops! No harm, I don't fill it up enough to cause any problems.
- Researching inverts, or fish, to add that will help keep the sandbed clean, suggestions?

Cleaning out the bad acro crabs

Breakfast

FTS from this morning; the back and edges of the tank need cleaning

 

[jnarowe]

that's an interesting feeding method Catherine. How did you arrive at that?

 

[michika]

I noticed in my 230g that some fish could never get in and feed from a clip. Some fish would just plain rip it off the glass. I figured a nice long stick would allow me to wrap nori in 3 places, bottom, middle and high so all the fish can eat. Its worked well, and it helps me keep my hands out of the tank. I also hate to get wet, so its a two fold bonus. Its fugly, but it works. Usually I take it out when I don't need it, but lately I've just been lazy and have left it in all the time.

 

[jnarowe]

Word to the wise, that will increase your nutrient content of the water column. Have you tried the shredded nori yet?

 

[michika]

How so? Just because I'm curious. Are you referring to the pieces they rip and allow to float freely?

I wrap some shredded stuff inside the flat sheets. This way means I only feed it twice a week rather then every other day. It also lets me cut back on frozen foods. How do you feed the shredded stuff?

 

[michika]

To add because I can't edit.

How would I continue to feed, but avoid adding those nutrients you mentioned?

 

[jnarowe]

Well, it all depends on yor philosophy of course, but I feed nori every day. I have 11 tangs and other fish that eat it. So I soak the nori in tank water and vitamins, drain it, and slowly feed it out of a bowl by dipping the bowl into the tank and allowing some to go in. I also leave my powerheads on so that the nori disperses and ALL the fish get some.

The point about slowly feeding the shredded is that it all gets eaten before it has a chance to get stuck under a rock somewhere and decompose.

I cringe whenever I see someone feeding off a clip or using sheets as a feeding method. What I like about yours is that it simulates eating off a rock (natural method) but is still easy to remove from the tank.

It's not a bad idea, but I wonder how much gets lsot into the system from tearing the sheet up.

 

[jnarowe]

BTW, I don't put my hands in the tank during feeding either. I have a VERY friendly foxface and I would just rather not go to the ER.

 

[michika]

I remember getting stung by my foxface, I can do without duplicating the experience.

Very little actually breaks away. On one sheet I use 4 elastics to keep everything held to the stick. I think the occasional piece of shredded stuff floats off, but usually one of the tangs will dart off to go catch. If they miss it the seio in the tank pushes it back to the left side where someone eventually gets it.

How long does it take you to feed? I figure once we do the 1000g system I will have a lot of tangs, so its probably a good time to tweak any feeding habits I have now.

 

[melev]

It isn't that you can't feed, but just don't feed too much. Back when I had 6 tangs in my reef, I'd feed 2 full sheets of nori (8" x 8") daily. And over time, phosphate levels rose and rose to eventually hit 3.0 ppm (our goal is .03ppm).

I decided to sell the tangs, only keeping two instead. I take one sheet of nori and tear it in half. I put in half a sheet every 3 days in my tank.

What's interesting to me is that EVERYONE wants it. The tangs, the clowns, the chromis, the anthias, the six line wrasse... they get so excited.

I love your system with the PVC stick. I'd use less, or take it out after 5 minutes and then put it back in during the next session perhaps. That avoids big pieces floating away only to be stuck in the overflow or sump to break down over time.

 

[michika]

Everyone in my tank wants it too, its a feeding frenzy where even the urchin starts making its away over to the left side of the tank. The food on the stick is already gone. It was probably 90% gone after an hour. After all the easy to get stuff is gone the fish goof off for a bit before returning to try and get what is trapped under the elastics. I'll try cutting it down to about half a sheet twice a week.

Do you think your nitrates were caused by a combination of your fish and feeding habits, or was it possible that one was more at fault then the other? I've never done any big nitrate battles, so I am clueless beyond what I've read. The only big battle I've ever done, and won was GHA.

 

[jnarowe]

Even my black lyretail mollies eat it! :lol:

So when you do go to the bigger system then you have to step up your game. I think the stick is probably OK with what you are doing now, but really, tangs need nori every day (IMO).

Even though they eat meat in our systems, that is not what their bodies are designed for. And you can really see it in color and health of the fish. I can't really tell you how much I feed in "sheet" terms because it's shredded, but it takes about 10 - 15 minutes to complete the feeding. I use about one container of Kizami shredded nori per week. Really not that much, but pretty much 100% of it is eaten.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12884654#post12884654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by michika
Everyone in my tank wants it too, its a feeding frenzy where even the urchin starts making its away over to the left side of the tank. The food on the stick is already gone. It was probably 90% gone after an hour. After all the easy to get stuff is gone the fish goof off for a bit before returning to try and get what is trapped under the elastics. I'll try cutting it down to about half a sheet twice a week.

Do you think your nitrates were caused by a combination of your fish and feeding habits, or was it possible that one was more at fault then the other? I've never done any big nitrate battles, so I am clueless beyond what I've read. The only big battle I've ever done, and won was GHA.

The nitrates were up high because I never knew it. I'd been reading my kit wrongly for years, due to a misunderstanding. When something stays that way for a long time, it permeates the rock and it'll take significant time to extract it from the rockwork. Mine stay around 25ppm without my doing a lot of work. I'd like to get them down of course, but until my new external pump & manifold are built, that project is on hold.

Just because the fish eat it in under an hour doesn't mean it is gone. Those same fish poop it out in huge blobs. Other fish eat it, or it settles into the rockwork. Whatever you put in the water stays in the water unless it is mechanically removed (skimmer, pads, socks, siphoning), or broken down and absorbed by something else that needs removing (macro algae, cooking LR).

 

[michika]

You make a good point.

I'm glad I switched over to a nitrate monitor rather then the test kits. I found out this past year that I'd been reading/understanding the instructions on my dKH test wrong for YEARS! Made a huge difference once I got it right.

The feeding frenzy in my tank goes on for easily 45 minutes. Its this frantic attack on the stick, that is pretty entertaining to watch. Well maybe cutting the food in half will have a positive impact in the future, in that I never have to do battle with nitrates. We'll see how quick it works with half a sheet, and maybe lower the amount further.

 

[michika]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12884670#post12884670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
Even my black lyretail mollies eat it! :lol:

So when you do go to the bigger system then you have to step up your game. I think the stick is probably OK with what you are doing now, but really, tangs need nori every day (IMO).

Even though they eat meat in our systems, that is not what their bodies are designed for. And you can really see it in color and health of the fish. I can't really tell you how much I feed in "sheet" terms because it's shredded, but it takes about 10 - 15 minutes to complete the feeding. I use about one container of Kizami shredded nori per week. Really not that much, but pretty much 100% of it is eaten.

I agree I do think tangs need it, or alternate grazing options daily. I do have a worry about keeping my chemistry in line.

So going back to the idea of decreasing how much I feed, would you say maybe 1/6 or 1/8th of what I feed twice weekly would be a good choice for daily feeding? I really want to make sure my fish get what they need, but like we all know its has to be balanced with chemistry.

I did find that making and feeding my own homemade food has made a big difference in the colours my fish display. I've also heard from a few others who purchased from me that it was helpful in getting picky eaters to take prepared foods. Making my own food has probably been one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

[jnarowe]

I do NOT agree with starving fish to make water quality stay in line. As Marc wrote, regardless of how much you feed, you still have to keep up with maintenance, mechanical filtration, skimming, blowing off the rocks, vacuuming out detritus, etc. I would never reduce the feeding of nori to just a couple times per week. I feed it EVERY day. In fact, the more often you feed, the less aggression (competition) and the more natural the environment is for your fish.

So when you move to the larger tank, you have to make some long-term decisions regarding the type of reef, and therefore the fish types and stocking levels.

With the couple plus of fish you currently have that will grow HUGE, I personally would only add a school of very small fish like red spot cardinals.

Homemade food is great and just remember to drain it before putting it in the tank.

tell us about the "nitrate" monitor...what is it?

 

[michika]

I do know that in the 1000g system I want a large bio load, I like the look of Goodwin9s system, however I also like the look of tanks that are well stocked with. Granted I will have to find a balance between the two. Obviously my mechanical side of things, and maintenance will have to be different. I have some tentative ideas on that, e.g. looking into volcano type skimmers, etc.

Alright so the new long term plan is to just feed about 1/ 8th of a sheet daily, and to supplement with frozen as I have been already, just maybe less of it. I will however probably skip feeding tomorrow since they had such a big meal today.

The nitrate monitor I have is by American Marine (http://www.americanmarineusa.com/). I calibrate it every time I test with it.

 

[jnarowe]

Well, Chuck's system is a freak of nature IMO. I don't think he would ever be able to grow nice SPS colonies, but again, that is a question of philosophy. He really enjoys fish and is not really into corals, so his tank fits well with his vision, as do all that he keeps.

Two things can help immensely:

1. Strict husbandry;

2. Extremely over-kill filtration equipment.

In your case, I would highly recommend that you visit as many large community reef tanks as you can. You have the time, and the knowledge received will be very helpful.

There's no one "right" way I guess, but find yourself a mentor. Someone else who has successfully kept a large cmmunity reef tank. And what I mean by "successfully" is longer than 2 years, and not simply replacing fish and corals when they die.

When you used the words "nitrate monitor" I thought you were talking about a unit that is left on all the time. My bad.